What is a Christian?

[ploomf]

I get this. Yet, God created both heaven and hell. They are kingdom manifestations of what a world saturated by God is like, as well as what one absence his influence is like. The world today is largely unafraid of hell and untrusting of heaven. The pure motives Rabia sought may prove beyond any saint--Muslim, evangelical or LDS.

True it's very hard, I know for myself I'm nowhere near that and I probably won't be in this life, I wish I could be though. (Warning, the following is just the random thoughts of a sleep deprived brain that has had way to much caffeine lately, if it doesn't make sense I'm sorry) The last couple of years were really hellish for me, it was a case of everything that could ever possibly go wrong did, I was at the bottom of a dark pit and every time I tried to climb out I was pulled back in. There were more than a few days that I wouldn't have been surprised if I'd been struck by lightening when I stepped out to get my mail. I completely lost my faith during that time and I'm only just regaining it, some days I'm still just wondering what it means to have faith. A few people when finding out that I was atheist (or agnostic, whatever I was calling myself at that time, I went through a few stages) would warn me I was in danger of hell and that I needed to invite Jesus into my heart to go to Heaven, they just got an eye roll and a muttered "yeah right". You are right, during that time I wasn't afraid of hell and I didn't care about Heaven. And those people, as well meaning as they were, didn't make a dent in my disbelief.

There wasn't one moment or one person that started softening my heart enough that I could hear God speaking to me, rather it was the example of several people, most living but a few dead, some that I knew personally and some I just read about or knew online, who just radiated joy and love. They loved God and it showed in their lives, the ones that I knew personally never proselytized to me but the way they lived their lives and the pure joy that radiated from them drew me to them. None of them had easy lives but the tragedy and hardships in their lives never seemed to touch them and I wanted to know why. So I started believing again and tentatively sometimes (because I'm not sure I really know how) I started praying again. I'm still learning, it's slow and I don't really know what I'm doing sometimes. But the people who brought me back to God weren't the ones who spoke of heaven and hell, punishment and reward, they were the ones who just simply shone with Gods love.

[Tough Grits]

[...] we have to live a high standard. Not based off what we see. That I feel is the biggest detriment. so many people in society, in our homes, ourselves, we see things and think that is the way it is or how it should be but there can be a better way if we seek it.

Yes, I absolutely agree.

This I have also noticed, that the members in my area live a "tradition" law. They do what others have done, with no change, no growth, no individual searching or pondering.

I don't want somebody "feeding" me what they think I should know about the gospel. Otherwise, why are scriptures so readily available in print, audio, and the internet?

What other dispensation has Heavenly Father made His word so readily available? Yet we have a generation that wants to have it fed to them by somebody else, without searching it for themselves. A generation that does what others have done, without pondering, praying, and searching all that Heavenly Father has provided to see if that is still the way He wants it done.

One of my favorite quotes can be found in the Teaching, No Greater Call manual (pg. 205):

President Marion G. Romney ~ "When I drink from a spring I like to get the water where it comes out of the ground, not down the stream after the cattle have waded in it...I appreciate other people's interpretation, but when it comes to the gospel we ought to be acquainted with what the Lord says" (address to religious educators, 13 Apr.1973; quoted by J. Richard Clarke in Conference Report, Oct. 1982, 19; or Ensign, Nov. 1982, 15).

Has anybody noticed this? Whatever your denomination, have you noticed that too many are relying on others to provide their gospel instruction?

Do you feel that "Christians" at large are failing in their duty and responsibility to diligently search and ponder the scriptures for themselves?

[Tough Grits]

The gospel is so rich in truth, light, and knowledge, that it makes sense that it would also be rich in things for us to do and for us to become.

On the surface, it seems that "works" are what we need to focus on. This is a good starting point. Especially if--like me--you had no prior religion. I had to train myself to pray daily and to pray over my food, I had to train myself to read my scriptures daily, and so forth.

We have to diligently strive to create good gospel habits. We have to learn what "works" the Lord would have us do.

What are works?

LDS.org; Works

Works are the "Sunday School" answers we hear and answer with in our Sunday School classes: prayer (personal/family), scriptures (personal/family), attending meetings, accepting and magnifying callings, obeying commandments, following modern-day counsel, living the standards, setting a good example, repentance, forgiveness, home teaching/visiting teaching, and so forth.

Works are important. Works are what smooth our rough edges, works are what set the example to others, works are the manifestation of what we believe.

However, it can be easy to get caught up in the "checklist" of things that we need to do. We can get so caught up in doing "works" that we can forget why we are doing works.

We don't do works to get "brownie points" in heaven. We don't do works to impress others. We don't do works to impress ourselves. We don't do works to be better than others.

Being prideful or arrogant about works is not only unrighteous, but it is the same behavior and mindset of the Pharisees. To see how the Lord felt about the Pharisees read: Matthew 23; Mark 7:1-23; Luke 11:37-44

What, beyond works, is there for us to do?

James 1:26 “If any […] among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s [or woman’s] religion is vain.”

Moroni 10:21 “Except ye have charity ye can in nowise be saved in the kingdom of God; [...]”

Moroni 7:47 "But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him."

Thomas S. Monson, Charity Never Faileth

Charity is having patience with someone who has let us down. It is resisting the impulse to become offended easily. It is accepting weaknesses and shortcomings. It is accepting people as they truly are. It is looking beyond physical appearances to attributes that will not dim through time. It is resisting the impulse to categorize others.

I think of works as my duties and obligations as a disciple. Things that only I can do (personal scripture study, personal prayer, becoming a better person, forgiving, letting go of "issues", and so forth).

I think of charity and service as the works that I can do for others, and that require sacrifice of time, talent, and means. Going beyond myself.

Then, of course, there is grace. This is no small matter in the gospel. It incorporates all that the Savior did and does on our behalf (see 2 Nephi 2:8). Also see LDS.org; Grace.

Thinking about this thread, and what a Christian is--or should be--had my mind thinking about works, charity, and grace.

It really is a never-ending process. The more works we do, the more we realize how important charity is. The more charity and service we provide to others, the more we are reminded of what our Savior did for us out of service, charity, and love. One eternal round. We never reach an end to our "checklist"...and at some point, we realize that we never want to.

[Dove]

Again, thanks Dove. Me too, as far as the depression and emotional pain. I get over it pretty quick, thanks to prayer and medicine. Still, it is intense when it hits.

I feel comfortable as a Daughter of God. Meaning, I enjoy that role, and I am grateful for every day that I "get" to endure trials, that I "get" to improve myself, and that I "get" to proclaim what I know and love.

I hope it is clear that I am not down-trodden. I am not miserable in my followship. I enjoy the gospel, and I hope that is evident.

I have just been puzzled by what I have been seeing in my current area. I did not have the same experience in middle Georgia. In that ward I felt challenged, engaged, and "on fire", while being surrounded by others who I felt were on levels similar to mine.

I guess I am noticing the difference between this area that I have been living in for nine years now, as opposed to my previous area. I have also noticed that the complacency of others seems to be getting more pronounced as the years go by.

I guess this is natural, as these are the last days. Aren't we told that the members will begin to weed themselves out?

Here is a question though, maybe I haven't actually asked it--are those who are "blissfully ignorant" considered righteous?

They publicly delight in the Lord's love (not in an arrogant or pompous way) even as they proclaim and profess that they aren't really doing the things that they are supposed to be doing. Or the ones who feel that as long as they are not committing any of the "big" sins, then they are "good" people and are doing well (and they do so sincerely, not arrogantly).

That just puzzles me.

I am just curious about the different kinds of understanding that I see going on around me and in the world at large.

This is one of the last thoughts I had last night as I drifted off to sleep...

If ignorance is bliss and discipleship is hard, then I'll take discipleship every time.

Also, I can't remember where or who, but it was said that instead of "What think ye of Christ" we need to be concerned with what Christ thinks of us.

Well, I have to go to work. Thanks for the thoughts so far!! It feels good to express what has been rattling around in my mind for some time now.

Hello, Tough Grits;

I'm sorry if it seemed I was inferring that you felt "down-trodden" or "miserable." That was not my intent. However, I can't lie that I often do feel "down-trodden" and "miserable." These are things I struggle with....

Anyway, I may not be the best one to answer your question....I feel I've tried and haven't been able to very well. Sorry again.

Best of wishes in coming to a deeper understanding about this

Dove

[Tough Grits]

Hello, Tough Grits;

I'm sorry if it seemed I was inferring that you felt "down-trodden" or "miserable." That was not my intent. However, I can't lie that I often do feel "down-trodden" and "miserable." These are things I struggle with....

Anyway, I may not be the best one to answer your question....I feel I've tried and haven't been able to very well. Sorry again.

Best of wishes in coming to a deeper understanding about this

Dove

No worries, Dove. I took no offense! Thank you for your response. I love talking and sharing about the gospel.

So many people want to argue, or "right-fight"...I just want to share and allow others to share with me as well!

My question was an open question to all...and for others to tell me their thoughts and ponderings. No need to apologize to me at all. But thank you.

Lots of love! ~TG

p.s. If I may ask...why do you "often do feel down-trodden and miserable"? Please share if you feel like it.

[Dove]

Hello, Tough Grits;

Yes, I'll be happy to answer your question here. I was thinking about pm'ing you with the answer. But, I realise I have already shared a great deal of what my answer entails here on this site. So, here goes. :)

There is no particular order of what I'm going to list as to what is more of a contributor than not.

One of the things that leave me "down trodden" and "miserable" the majority of the time is childhood abuse; sexual, verbal and physical. Though I witnessed more of the physical abuse being done to my siblings, as I was the last of six children. My Mom was not the guilty party in the abuse.

I have traced a history of mental illness through my paternal grandmothers' line. I have traced abuse through my maternal grandfathers' line two generations back. I am currently on psychiatric disability with several diagnosis, one being severe depression.

I have been diagnosed with poly-cystic ovary disease, or syndrome, as it is now called. When I cycle each month, my emotions go very much out of wack. Often times during this cycling, I am so depressed that I get suicidal. Seldom a month goes by that I don't struggle with this.

I have diabetes. Because of my gynecological problems, my blood sugars also wildly fluctuate during my cycling, leaving me quite ill along with the depression. These fluctuations can drag out for weeks.

I have a really hard time "getting along" with others. I think because of the abuse I suffered as a child. Still, it's very painful to me to face rejection over and over again from my peers. So many times I have been unable to get along with people at church. I have long struggled with this. This has lead me to begin smoking again and to marry the man who loved me as much as my dear, beloved, non-member husband does. I've struggled with not marrying in the Temple. Still, I believe I was spiritually directed to my husband. I find solace in that.

So, for me life is very painful and difficult for the most part. Yet, I know God does live and does love me, even though I cannot comprehend the depth of His love for me.

Some things I have learned from my trials are that I cannot take anything for granted. I can never presume my standing before God. In fact, I credit Him/the Holy Spirit with saving me from committing suicide in years past. Every time I would come to that point of seriously planning it, the Spirit would lovingly/gently/powerfully stop me. It's hard to describe. I grieve over a friend I lost to suicide. I don't know why I was stopped and she went through with it....I hope some day I will understand. Because of my health and psychiatric problems, I have come to understand, much more deeply, the fragility of life. I attribute my still being alive to God.

Often times I feel I can barely keep my head above water. I think of a scripture as I write this. It is Mosiah 2:21; "I say unto you that if ye should serve Him who has created you from the very beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another-I say, if ye should serve Him with all you whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants." I really get this scripture.

I believe the core of the gospel is the pure love of Christ. This is why I believe that home teaching and visiting teaching is soo important. It encapsulates the essence of the gospel if done correctly. Which is; loving your neighbour as yourself.

I hope I didn't lay too much at your door. I'm not ashamed of what I've related. But, I do understand that what I've written can easily be too much for some to read. I'm really sorry if I have caused anyone unease or discomfort by what I've written.

Dove

[Dove]

PS. Lots of loves and hugs back atchya! :-)

[Tough Grits]

So, for me life is very painful and difficult for the most part. Yet, I know God does live and does love me, even though I cannot comprehend the depth of His love for me.

I wish I knew what to say. A part of me wants to say sorry, but the survivor in me realizes that my trials have not and do not make me a victim. I am a soldier in God's army, plodding along the best I can, and fighting when I need to fight. All of us who choose to fight for God have to fight now and then, though what we battle will be unique to our needs, unique to our choices, unique to our spirits, unique to our experiences, unique to our upbringing, and unique to what life spontaneously throws at us.

Some things I have learned from my trials are that I cannot take anything for granted. I can never presume my standing before God.

This is how I feel too.

In fact, I credit Him/the Holy Spirit with saving me from committing suicide in years past. Every time I would come to that point of seriously planning it, the Spirit would lovingly/gently/powerfully stop me.

Humbling.

It's hard to describe.

I understand more than you realize.

Mosiah 2:21; "I say unto you that if ye should serve Him who has created you from the very beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another-I say, if ye should serve Him with all you whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants." I really get this scripture.

Me too.

I believe the core of the gospel is the pure love of Christ. This is why I believe that home teaching and visiting teaching is soo important. It encapsulates the essence of the gospel if done correctly. Which is; loving your neighbour as yourself.

I agree.

Dove, I hope you keep fighting. There are lots of things I hope I will understand in the next estate too. Just keep being a survivor. ~TG

[Tough Grits]

I wonder if it is safe to say that there is no "mold" no "cookie-cutter" for what a Christian is?

Of course we have commandments, laws, ordinances, principles, counsel, and revelation...but how we understand those things and how we manifest them is going to be unique to each one of us.

As disciples we are soldiers in God's army, and we fight under one banner, but our armor, our shield, and our sword have been divinely crafted by the Master Craftsman to suit our "build", to suit our individual needs and abilities.

And though leaders stand at the front lines shouting the same commands and directions that they always have, we each heed them individually according to our own understanding and our own willingness.

I wonder what this "battle" would look like from above?

Some just standing about watching.

Some wandering around helplessly.

Some actually attacking their own.

Some pretending to fight.

Some hiding behind others as they fight.

Some trying to lead others off in another direction.

Some standing around arguing points of doctrine, while the battle rages on all sides.

Some engaged, but in the wrong direction.

Some fighting with all they have, but only periodically, and only when convenient or when the battle looks like it will be won.

And then a rare few serving on the very front lines, day in and day out, tirelessly fighting, constantly getting up when knocked down, consistently plunging forward every time they are thrust back, and joyously shouting God's praises with each thrust and each victory.

I can only hope and pray that I will one day be found among this last group.