what, if anything, should I discuss with preisthood leaders?


Sunshine40
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Hello all!

I had a rather interesting discussion with my stake president last week. It was he, my husband and I who met with him about another matter that had nothing to do with our relationship (per say, since everything touches it).

During that meeting (as a side note, or after thougt, or answer to th SP's question of do you have an concerns) my husband opened up about his general concerns that he fears "everyone" thinks he is "the kook" of the ward. Of course I have known about this for years. The SP talked about only needing to worry about his relationship with the Savior and to see himself as the Lord sees him..things I have been saying for years, with temporary breakthroughs..but eventually DH falling back into his insecurities again.

Anyways, the SP suggested that he (and we as a couple) take it to the Lord to figure out why he feels this way and what things he needs to change to fix it. (basically)...

well, after the meeting my DH i upset and goes into his usual tyrade of how poorly other people treat him, or how they look down on him , or hate him, and it is this guy's fault,or this guy's fault..and maybe even my fault. He never looks internally for this. He is always worried about people and what they think about him. ( i know that is kind of a normal thing, but at his level, it affects him deeply, in every aspect of life and had been very strssful on all his relationships with others, and consequently, mine as well)

SO, I have also prayed about it, and I was redirected to an experience we recently had at the temple. About a year ago, My DH see the SP about another unrelated matter and they end up discussing our marital relationship, with no details. But the SP tells my DH to take me to the temple with what we need to do to strengthen our relationship in mind and specifically do sealings..so we did. And I got a definitive answer. So did my DH. His was two fold: "take a yes for a yes" and "Stop being so selfish"..mine was "love your husband like you did before you were married." to which I immediately thought "He was NICE to me before we were married." and (i have these dicussions all the time like this with God) I got "that's not what I mean, and you know it." which flashed the whole pictures and feelings in my mind and heart of how before we were married my DH and I discussed the possibilty that he could soon be in a wheelchair and for the rest of his life because doctors had told him (at age 15) that he possiby had some bone disease that made them deteriorate. And I loved him so much that I wanted to see him through it and stick by his side and love him no matter what. Well, it has been over 20 years with no physical disability, but the the sprit distinctly said after that flash "why should a physical disability be any differnt than a mental one."

SO after serendipously discovereing what my DH most fits, I have found profound strength for myself. ( well, at times..) I have been dealing with a husband with Borderline Personality Disorder. It explains his rages, his lack of emotional stability, his vast insecuritis and abandonment fears..essentially his beleif that everyone thinks he is a "kook". It explains all the bullying an.d emotional abuse I have had to endure. It also explains that there is hope for him and me.

So after this discovery I joined and online support group for people who have loved ones with Borderline Personality Disorder and have taken a lot of lessons (and continue to do so). And I have learned SO MUCH. I stay on the "Committed to staying and improving a relationship" boards, so I do not get encouragement just to dump him and give up. The thing I like the most is the emphasis that I cannot change him or make him behave any certain way, but I can understand him and love him and learn what I can do to make our relationship better. It taught me validation and invalidation. And through this I can clearly see that my husband FEELS he is thought of as a kook because the leadership he talks to do not take the time to validate --because they do not know how, or do not have the time--and have also done/said some things that are terribly invalidating, which my DH is EXTREMELY sensitive to. So I am always dealing with the aftermath of a dysregulated husband flying off the handle about church..and frankly, it is exhausting.

Anyways, as I have prayed about what the SP has asked us to pray about, I have been redirected again to the BPD. I know it is the BPD talking.

I fear that if I mention any of this to my bishop or my SP, that it will, at the very least, play into my husband's insecurities of "everyone thinks I am a Kook"..and frankly, I cannot even discuss it with my husband. About three years ago he self diagnosed himself with general anxiety disorder, which frankly, ya, he's right about that. But he went through this whole series of fears that I was going to leave him, and that he is "less of a man" etc.. it was terrible. At any route I cannot simply tell my husband that he has BPD. I cannot make him go to any sort of therapy or counseling (which would do no good without the basis of "we're dealing with BPD here")..and the last time I discussed with my bishop (different bishop) my marital problems, it vastly strained the relationship between him and my husband. My Husband would take no counsel from him and was coninced my bishop was trying to get me to leave him and marry another man in our ward (which I KNOW was never the case). My former bishop was so frustrted with this situation that he eventually told me to tell my husband to buy me a burkah for Christmas. Since that was I got from my bishop, I knew he could no longer offer me any help. I came here whenever I felt the need for someone to talk me out of getting a divorce. Through this website I found the BPD websites, when someone was decribing their relationship with their husband and it sounded exactly like mine and someone suggested BPD.

So since I know Bishops and SP's are not trained in mental illness, I am worried that by telling them, I could ruin yet another relationship between my husband and his priesthood leaders, and of course it would actually feed into the "everyone thinks I'm a kook" thing.

On the other hand, if I have a SP or bishop that was willing to listen to me (and my Dh cannot be in the room for this, so opportunities have to be either in secret or at my next temple reccomend interview in October), I feel that I have a wealth of knowledge or insight to impart,about BPD , about validatio techniques...about specific words they use that can be extremely invalidating and make things in my home worse, when I know that is not what is intended. ( for example, telling a person with BPD to "get over it" triggers rages). I did not get the feeling that my SP used any invalidting comments. But my bishop has been so overwhelmed lately that I feel like i cannot talk to him about this, or anything else for that matter. He's a good guy, and I love him, but he has had a very difficult year, and I have had the sense that he does not have the time to listen to me, and he may just dismiss it, or i may ruint his relationship with my DH.

Well that was long, but the basics of my problem. Does anyone have any suggestions of when and what to say?(if anything at all) Has anyone here been a bishop or SP and have any suggestions?

Thank you,

Sunshine40

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My personal thoughts, you will be wasting your time to personally seek out to provide your wealth of knowledge with your bishop or SP.

The bishops life is already full enough, and imagine if everyone in the ward wanted to take up his time -- away from his family -- to tell him what he is doing wrong and how he needs to do better, i.e. share their wealth of knowledge.

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For years, when my husband has the courage to open his heart to a preisthood leader, he has experienced arguments and disapoinment. No one ever suggests counseling. I sit there pretty much silently as I watch the whole thing. I am not allowed to talk to anyone, so I feel increasingly isolated as time goes by. So the purpose of talking to the bishop when my husband is having an ongoing spiritual crisis is not to waste his time or to "tell him what he is doing wrong".

I felt like you almost just said, "Your concerns are a waste of the bishop's time. Your husband is a waste of the bishop's time. Your dealings with emotional abuse are a waste of the bishop's time."

thanks for nothin

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I would do what you trying to still do. Get him to realize that what others think and feel doesn't matter. It's possible they may not be looking at him and viewing him as he thinks they are. Really, he needs to get his confidence by just doing his own reading and praying and learn to trust in the lord, you and those close to him and not what others think. He has to concentrate on the good and ignore the bad. Then in time, he will see that it's true and not worry about what others think. I hope that helps.

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Good afternoon Sunshine40. It is a pleasure to meet you! :) I am sorry that you are sufferring and having a hard time.

For years, when my husband has the courage to open his heart to a preisthood leader, he has experienced arguments and disapoinment. No one ever suggests counseling. I sit there pretty much silently as I watch the whole thing. I am not allowed to talk to anyone, so I feel increasingly isolated as time goes by. So the purpose of talking to the bishop when my husband is having an ongoing spiritual crisis is not to waste his time or to "tell him what he is doing wrong".

I felt like you almost just said, "Your concerns are a waste of the bishop's time. Your husband is a waste of the bishop's time. Your dealings with emotional abuse are a waste of the bishop's time."

thanks for nothin

I think Anddenex may have misunderstood you. Your post is very long and it doesn't necessarily flow easily. What you are saying in your post isn't exactly clear and what you are asking isn't exactly clear either. I am not pointing this out to be critical or to make you feel bad. I am trying the opposite of that.

This is what I understand your concerns to be based on your post. You believe that your husband has a mental disorder of some type. You suspect Borderline Personality Disorder. You have a long history of dealing with the consequences of your husbands mental disorder. You've talked with bishops and stake presidents and the problem persist. You are now asking what can you say or ask during priesthood interviews with your bishop or stake president to bring attention to the BPD and get the help you and your husband needs?

Is this correct?

Respectfully,

Finrock

Edited by Finrock
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So I disagree in one part with Anddenex. Maybe you should talk to your bishop and SP to let them know your suspicions and how your husband reacts to certain phrases. I think it is great for a leader to know what he is dealing with. But I do agree with Anddenex that we shouldnt place all of what you have learned with the Bishop. I am not sure that will help him guide, lead or judge.

My heart goes out to you. I am no stranger to mental illnesses. With that in mind, I do beleive that you are attacking this from the wrong angle. Telling your Bishop and SP or other leaders all about your husbands trials cannot possibly lead to your husband getting help if your husband is not involved. You may very well learn how to skirt around his problems, but one should not expect the rest of the world to do the same. For that, he needs to get help for himself, not others. He will need to accept the fact that what he is dealing with is not his fault and move to remedy it.

Best of luck.

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I am confident Anddenex meant no such thing. If you ask for opinions and then get an opinion, it's probably best not to insult the guy who gave it to you. He was just doing as you asked.

In MY opinion, you should schedule an appointment with the bishop sometime soon, before October, certainly, and talk to him. He might be able to meet you during Relief Society if he can have the Young Men's president teach the priests quorum -- though I dislike the idea of sneaking around behind your husband's back as if you're having an affair. You are allowed to talk with your bishop when you like.

In any case, I would also advise that you not launch into a lengthy lecture of how your bishop ought to respond to your husband and what words he should use. There are two reasons for this:

1. It's not really your place to lecture the bishop on how he should do his job.

2. Men are not the same as women, and men don't approach things the same way women do. From what you've written, I gather your advice is from a very feminine point of view, which is fine, but not likely to be of as much help to the bishop as you believe.

Instead, I would suggest you express your concerns to the bishop, tell him of your private diagnosis of BPD in your husband, and then say that you have found out some things that help with BPD and ask him if he would be interested to hear what you've found out. Then go from there.

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Vort, your comments make sense.

I did have to chuckle at the comment, "You are allowed to talk to your bishop when you like.", which is a true statement, but not without getting yelled at until 2am and threatened with divorce. I am sure that is not a typical response to a wife talking to her bishop, but it is mine. But I also abhor sneaking around and hate lying. So I have to weigh my options. (Do I want to get yelled at, or do I want to repent...God forgives faster)

And I agree that I need to not tell my bishop what to do or say to my husband, but I do find that our subculture knows little about validation/invalidation, and it is disappointing. I myself did not realize the things I was saying that are invalidating and can trigger emotional dysregulation in my husband. I do not want to tip toe or make evryone have to do the dance that I live with everyday. I just. need. help.

Your comments are appreciated, and I am sorry if I insulted Annedex. I read his comment incorrectly, and was insulted myself. That's why I deleted that response.

-s

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Your comments are appreciated, and I am sorry if I insulted Annedex. I read his comment incorrectly, and was insulted myself. That's why I deleted that response.

-s

Nope, I was not insulted. I wouldn't have known or read your response if it wasn't for Finrock.

All good, this is something very important to you and unfortunately my comment rung the wrong bell.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

I would suggest you express your concerns to the bishop, tell him of your private diagnosis of BPD in your husband, and then say that you have found out some things that help with BPD and ask him if he would be interested to hear what you've found out. Then go from there.

I agree with this. I think asking if the Bishop would be interested in hearing what you have learned would be respectful, and more likely to find him favorable to listening. I imagine that he would be happy to hear what you have to share.

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Hello, Sunshine40;

To give you a little background about myself; I have been diagnosed with BPD. I have a couple of books on this that might help you. They are "I hate you, don't leave me" and "Walking on eggshells." They both give insight into how to relate to someone who has BPD. Sorry, I don't remember the names of the authors.

Might I suggest not going to your bishop and stake president about this? First, to respect your husbands' privacy/confidentiality. Secondly, I believe a trained professional would be much more helpful for you in learning how to cope with your husbands' mental illness.

While I have been diagnosed with the BPD, I would never feel okay going into a rage with my husband. If you feel abused by your husband, no matter what his diagnosis, I believe that is not okay. This is not to put your husband down. I don't fully know what your situation is. But it seems to me that he is raging at you. In my lay opinion, that is just not okay....Boundaries need to be set as to how he treats you.....

I know you are worried about your husbands' feelings/reactions if you confront him about your realisation. Perhaps fasting and prayer will help in knowing how to talk to him about this....

Lastly, about confiding in your priesthood leadership. I have found that what I say to one leader (i..e R.S. President etc) inevitably gets told to other leaders, probably in the leadership meeting. I think at times it's very wise to use discretion as to what you tell someone about someone else. Just something to think about.

Best of wishes in you journey

Dove

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PS, If you husband is concerned that other people think he is a "kook," this could be a strong indicator that he himself is sensing that something is not right in his mind (the mental illness) and his own prejudice towards the mentally ill might be keeping him from feeling safe in dealing with this. Please, seek professional help as to what to do.....

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