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bigernflo

Mormon Marijuana Smokers

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I really appreciate LMM"s comments. It's very clear that he doesn't support the smoking of pot.

Just to clarify, I consider the medicinal value of THC to be a separate issue totally. I do believe it does have some medicinal value. I also believe the substance is so utterly intertwined in cultural, legal, political, moral, religious, and geopolitical issues, there's no such thing as an easy answer or a solution that works for everybody.

Anyway, the whole child sex trade murdering transnational criminal organization part of it is the most horrible aspect, and one that far too few people think about. Even if you're in true medical need, it's important to know who you're doing business with to ease your symptoms.

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon

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Not even second hand?? That's awesome, you're naturally wired then.

Geesh chill bro..it was just a joke :rasta:

If you attend Phish or Dead concerts, you are a de facto pot smoker. Unless you're wearing scuba gear the whole time.

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Okay, okay;

Most everyone who has posted on this thread has made it very clear that they don't support bigernflos' marijuana smoking.....

But, can we stop with the name calling? (doper and "stupidest comment made.....")?

I really appreciate LMM"s comments. It's very clear that he doesn't support the smoking of pot. But, he has been respectful in what he's had to say.

And, while I do not support the smoking of marijuana (I don't do it, either) I have a person in my life, whom I love dearly, that does it very often himself. This is to self medicate for pain.

I think it's really easy to be rude to bigernflo about this. Most of us don't agree with him. Yet, I have seen very little compassion expressed for what he's trying to deal with. More so ridicule for the arguments he has expressed in favour of legalising it. Seriously, are you posting this thinking you're really going to help him, or for some other reason?

Just sayin'

Dove

I've been in constant pain for 25 years. I don't understand how using a drug that disconnects your mind from your body (and that's exactly what it does) would be helpful.

As much as I hate being in pain, I wouldn't go back and change a thing. The pain has brought me closer to my Savior.

I most definitely wouldn't self medicate. I know a doctor who have self-medicated and ended up with bigger health issues which included surgery. He's damaged his heart forever and it wasn't an illegal drug he took.

I have a testimony that we have our struggles in this life to bring us closer to the Savior. Why would anyone want to use and illegal drug, illegally, to stop that process? (rhetorical)

I understand the uses for THC and have looked into it for my pain. I didn't even get to the point where I wanted to ask if my doctor would support me. I would rather have a wonderful relationship with my Savior than to dull my spirit and mind.

Dove, I agree that we should always be respectful. There is a difference between calling a person stupid and saying their statement is stupid. Biginferno isn't asking for help for his depression or even for the issue of being addicted to pot. He's looking for approval. He's not going to get it here.

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Guest gopecon

I just thougtht that I would add that coffee and tea are naturally occurring plants, and people like how they feel with a good caffeine rush in the morning, too. The fact that something is here in no way justifies our misuse of it.

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I just thougtht that I would add that coffee and tea are naturally occurring plants, and people like how they feel with a good caffeine rush in the morning, too. The fact that something is here in no way justifies our misuse of it.

These guys "feel the rush" four times a day

Florida couple use coffee enemas to cleanse colons 4 times a day | Fox News

oooooh Florida..you never fail to disappoint

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I've been in constant pain for 25 years. I don't understand how using a drug that disconnects your mind from your body (and that's exactly what it does) would be helpful.

As much as I hate being in pain, I wouldn't go back and change a thing. The pain has brought me closer to my Savior.

I most definitely wouldn't self medicate. I know a doctor who have self-medicated and ended up with bigger health issues which included surgery. He's damaged his heart forever and it wasn't an illegal drug he took.

I have a testimony that we have our struggles in this life to bring us closer to the Savior. Why would anyone want to use and illegal drug, illegally, to stop that process? (rhetorical)

I understand the uses for THC and have looked into it for my pain. I didn't even get to the point where I wanted to ask if my doctor would support me. I would rather have a wonderful relationship with my Savior than to dull my spirit and mind.

Dove, I agree that we should always be respectful. There is a difference between calling a person stupid and saying their statement is stupid. Biginferno isn't asking for help for his depression or even for the issue of being addicted to pot. He's looking for approval. He's not going to get it here.

ApplePansy;

I in no way would want to negate the pain you've gone through. I acknowledge and respect how you've dealt with it.

Neither do I want to negate the pain of others and their struggles in dealing with it. Not all of us have the faith/belief/hope/trust in God enough yet to follow Him through the harrowing experiences life can give us. I am one of those that struggle with my faith when I get slapped silly by the opposition in life. So, it amazes me when people who are obviously in pain and trying to cope with it, as wrong as how they are may be, are met with further harshness from those of us who claim to be the true followers of Jesus Christ. There is a scripture in the Doctrine and Covenants that tells us how to "deal" with those who do not have enough faith;

"And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy."

I struggle with how harsh people have been, from the words to the tone/anger of the responses. I wrote those comments because the responses to Bigernflo were getting more and more inflammatory as this thread went on. While Bigernflo may be rationalising his position and allowing himself to be mislead into thinking pot smoking is okay, that doesn't give me permission to treat him with rudeness or disrespect. No worries, though, I don't think Bigernflo has been here for awhile nor will be returning any time soon...So much for disagreeing with him in love, respect and kindness...

To be clear, I do support and believe in the high standards of our church. All of them. I just don't feel I have the right to judge others when I perceive they are not keeping the commandments as well as me or as well as I think they should. I believe that is not my place. It is mine to focus on the beam in my eye rather than on someone elses' mote....I don't believe unleashing my anger towards another is ever okay or right.

Dove

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To be clear, I do support and believe in the high standards of our church. All of them. I just don't feel I have the right to judge others when I perceive they are not keeping the commandments as well as me or as well as I think they should. I believe that is not my place. It is mine to focus on the beam in my eye rather than on someone elses' mote....I don't believe unleashing my anger towards another is ever okay or right.

Judging others' actions in performing an illegal activity is different from judging others' actions for falsely representing LDS doctrine. It is the latter, not the former, primarily in evidence here.

And calling a spade a spade (or a lie a lie) is not the same as "unleashing anger".

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No rationalization will stand when we are all done with this life. We will have either been obedient or we will have not been obedient. There is no gray area for the world's excuses.

I don't believe being "obedient" is always black and white. I do believe their is a lot of grey areas. Mainly when we think we "know" what obedience is and then use that human "wisdom" to judge others for not measuring up to our standards.

For example, while many of us can drive and know all of the laws to drive correctly, there are many of us who would not even be allowed to drive because of impairments that keep them from driving. Like blindness, deafness, etc. Yet, we don't judge that person for not being able to drive.

I just don't think we should inflict our perspectives/judgements on someone else when we haven't walked a mile in their moccasins.

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True I did try pot for the first time because friends of mine had said how awesome it was. However the next day I research it. I resarched it because that is what the church taught me. Find out for yourself what is true and what is right. I continue to use Marijuana because I have not found, through personal use and research, that it is not harmful to the body.

No, it's not harmful to the body at all. For example, if a person tries it at a friend's suggestion, that person could never find themselves at the point where (s)he becomes - say - clinically depressed without his or her daily fix.

It's not an addiction, because you can quit anytime you want--you just don't want to. Right?

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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For example, while many of us can drive and know all of the laws to drive correctly, there are many of us who would not even be allowed to drive because of impairments that keep them from driving. Like blindness, deafness, etc. Yet, we don't judge that person for not being able to drive.

But if the person unfit to drive nevertheless gets behind the wheel and makes a public nuisance of himself on the roads, then yes, we do indeed judge him.

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I just don't think we should inflict our perspectives/judgements on someone else when we haven't walked a mile in their moccasins.

Interesting perspective, how many moccasins did you have to borrow to post in this thread?

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Yeah exposing false doctrine is a lot different than ridiculing the person and making him look like a joke and not worth anything. D&C 18 The worth of souls are great in the sight of God. Implied is every single one. Right? Can you honestly tell me that you are treating his soul with worth when you are putting him down more than the issue?

Dove hits the nail on the head. We disagree, but be respectful.

Sincerely,

TPV

TPV, you are absolutely correct: the worth of even a single soul IS great in the eyes of God.

So which approach do you think will save more souls: mollycoddling Bignernflo's heresy? Or slapping it down harshly and unequivocably?

The best analogy I can think of right now is that Bigernflo's philosophy is a single cancer cell. If we tolerate it, we will allow it to spread, causing greater harm to the body.

If we instead excise it early, we save ourselves a great deal of trouble down the road.

In the vein of your complaint, however, I want to ask:

How much respect did the Savior show for the merchants and salesman he drove out of the Temple with a hand-made whip?

How much respect did the Savior show for the Pharisees who laid in wait for him trying to trip him up and preaching false doctrine to the children of Israel?

In both cases, Christ was merciless, because the objects of his ire were impenitent, keen on teaching falsehood as truth, leading the children of God astray, and in digging a pit for their neighbor.

Bigernflo has done all these things.

Had Bigernflo come here with questions, had he come here in penitence and humility, indeed- had he come here for any reason other than to FLAUNT his sin and encourage others to join him in it- the reception he got would have been far, far different.

Still, I want to be fair about this, so let's parse out the posts which have caused so much heartburn:

This is, hands down, the single stupidest comment I've seen on this website- an achievement in and of itself.

This is indeed an opinion, and a derisive one at that. But at who or what is it directed?

Did I say bigernflo was "the stupidest poster in the history of the boards"? No- I said the comment was stupid- and I went on to explain, with facts, why I felt that way.

If you're going to post here, please be sober when you do so.

This could have been framed a lot better- but it was still directed at the calibre of the argument, not at the individual himself.

I, for one, assume that bigernflo is capable of much more cogent and rationale thought than has thus far been displayed.

Congratulations: your "innocent" little past-time has already turned you into a self-confessed criminal.

This statement is a logical conclusion given that marijuana use and possession without a prescription remains a crime in nearly every state of the union.

Bigernflo admitted that the first time he tried marijuana, it was a joint that was prescribed for someone else.

Obtaining or using a precription under false pretenses remains a serious crime- a felony in most instances.

You may not like the way I said it, but what I said is perfectly accurate.

A great deal of the harm you are doing to yourself is psychological, and more fundamentally, moral.

The fact that you are here arguing that something the Church has explicitly rejected and cautioned against is somehow justifiable is a classic example of "calling evil 'good' and 'good evil'."

You are here agitating to justify your sin and persuade others to think as you do.

You are here proclaiming the false notion recounted in 2 Nephi:

"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God."

Aside from the board rules against proselyting, this behavior, too, is Scripturally and morally indefensible.

Again, everything I said in this piece is scripturally and factually accurate.

Note that I did not attack bigernflo as a person once- in every instance I was attacking his position, his argument, and his personal philosophy.

Condemning his agenda, his reasoning, and his actions is a far cry from damning him.

While I sympathize with your pain Dove, this is an apples-and-oranges comparison.

Your loved one is not here (on a family and LDS board) teaching false doctrine, promoting the habit, and bearing false witness (by using the Church in an attempt to justify his breaking of the law).

Your loved one is not trying to subvert the teachings of the Church in order to justify sin.

We, as Latter-day Saints are commanded to repudiate false doctrine when it is presented to us.

I don't believe for a moment we can help bigernflo. He is unrepentant and militant in justifying his sin.

By his own admission, he did not come here with questions, but with an agenda- not to learn, but to preach the Gospel According to BigernFlo.

Therefore the only thing we can do is expose his position for the damnable mockery that it is.

Again- everything I said here is scripturally and logically justifiable.

I did not call bigernflo names, nor did I attack his looks, his weight, his oral hygeine, or his parentage.

I attacked his mindset, his attitude, his arguments, and his conduct.

And those- like the conduct and arguments of the money changers in the Temple, the Pharisees who laid in wait to trap the Savior, and anti-Christs such as Korihor, are fair game.

You may not like the way I said it- but you cannot deny that what I said is true.

Al that having been said- I am not the topic here, and will not respond to any further derailments towards that end.

I thank you for your opinion, but sniping at me does nothing to combat the falsehoods being propagated in our midst.

Edited by selek

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Interesting perspective, how many moccasins did you have to borrow to post in this thread?

Dravin;

I really don't get the meaning/jist of what you are trying to say to me. Would you care to explain it further?

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My observations.

(1) OP posted a topic, likely knowing, it would be a heated one.

(2) Lots of emotional responses with little tact.

I do not support the use of marijuana, primarily, because of what LM has shared. I would not knowingly want to participate in an event, or use a product, that contributes to child labour, human trafficking, and or homicides. That said, as far as using a drug that alleviates pain, I'm not opposed to it and realise there are some legitimate medicinal qualities to marijuana.

I have struggled with OCD, manic depression and an eating disorder throughout my life. I could not function, at least, with a decent quality of life without being medically treated with prescribed drugs. I have tried pretty much everything. Some of those drugs did zombify me, some of them hyped me up. I went through a lot of trial and error. In the end, anything that makes you numb to life and feeling, is probably not a good quality of life. It probably took about 10 years before my doctors were able to find something that would work for me, keep me calm and collected, but didn't make me a disconnected dead body.

Since The Lord is Judge and jury, I have no place or right, to call you or anyone else out. We all sin, and we are all loved unconditionally by The Lord. Only you, your doctor, and The Lord knows your situation. Be sincere in your prayers and seek guidance with an earnest and humble heart. Best wishes.

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There is a hymn I'm thinking of that would explain better than I could what I've been trying to say. For what it's worth, here it is....

Lord, I Would Follow Thee

31243, Hymns, Lord, I Would Follow Thee, no. 220

1. Savior, may I learn to love thee,

Walk the path that thou hast shown,

Pause to help and lift another,

Finding strength beyond my own.

Savior, may I learn to love thee—

[Chorus]

Lord, I would follow thee.

2. Who am I to judge another

When I walk imperfectly?

In the quiet heart is hidden

Sorrow that the eye can't see.

Who am I to judge another?

3. I would be my brother's keeper;

I would learn the healer's art.

To the wounded and the weary

I would show a gentle heart.

I would be my brother's keeper—

4. Savior, may I love my brother

As I know thou lovest me,

Find in thee my strength, my beacon,

For thy servant I would be.

Savior, may I love my brother—

As I've already said, I have read a lot of anger and scathing comments towards the OP that I don't think were the most loving or helpful way to respond. Yes, there is a lot he is doing that is blatantly against the church's standing on marijuana....Another scripture comes to mind....

Doctrine and Covenants 121:41-44;

"No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned.

By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile-

Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy.

That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death."

Vort, as far as the driving analogy goes- I will try to put it this way. While I feel compassion and empathy for the OP in what he is dealing with (I believe it was depression and anxiety), I wouldn't suggest, support or condone him smoking marijuana and, say, still taking the sacrament or renewing his covenants by attending the Temple. While I don't feel it would be my place to attack him, neither would I say it was okay.

I don't believe the OP came here to create so much negativity. Sure, his opening thread may have hit most people wrong. But, I don't think it was his intent to create contention, arguing, or of being belittled. To me, this has nothing to do with the smoking of marijuana at this point. It has more to do with how we treat others who have erred in their ways and are getting lost in forbidden paths. As the scripture says that I just quoted, I just don't want to be esteemed as an enemy to anyone who is reaching out by posting on LDS net.

Edited by Dove

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Selek,

I know you do not want to continue a conversation that does not talk about the issue at hand. However, what I said seems to be interpreted as me condoning what the op said through mollycoddling. That is not the case.

And I want to make one big distinction. The Savior cast out the moneychangers, dealt with the pharisees as He saw fit. Why? He is the Son of God. He is the judge. He is perfect and executes the exact amount of mercy or justice that must be meted when a judgment is given. Would you say that a judge in a courtroom is the only one in the room to pronounce judgment? Yes, so what gives us the right to pronounce judgment on others?

Now, even though I say that, we still make some judgments just as apostles have taught us(I think particularly Elder Oaks). We need to make a judgment to protect ourselves. Avoid potentially bad friends, or situations. However, that does not mean that we condemn and hate the person. Anything that involves hate is not of God. God is love. We still are friendly with a person, we still treat them well, we still show respect. So one day they will remember the moment and say "you know what those mormons or that person was still really good even though I tried hard to antagonize or treat them ill or I was simply wrong." So many people stay out of the church and even religion in general just for the simple fact of seeing hypocrisy in those types of actions. They see people who profess love, but show overbearance and condemnation even if the intentions are well meaning.

Well, then it could be said that it is still their choice what to think. What if I do my best and they still are bitter. Then I'd say I tried my best as the Gospel requires. I am not at fault. However, if I am not trying my best and just say forget it, and I leave a bad example. Then I have contributed to the person's faulty thinking. I am building the strength of the tumor as you put it. A person has more reason to feel justified in their decision even though the reality is in the end that justification will collapse against the law of God.

When Alma the Younger was teaching about his time of rebellion he said he "murdered" the children of God. He expands this to mean not temporally but spiritually. Some of those people never came back.

I never had anything against people telling him that he was in the wrong. rameumpton's post, I think right after mine, was a perfect way to teach the op he was in the wrong but in a respectful manner. It was like boom boom boom it's wrong because this this this. And not attacking anything.

So what did I not like? It was just the way we went about it. If something is wrong then something should be said. Just not in overbearance as Alma 38 says. When it begins to be more than just talking about the issue and we condemn the person. Actions, words, thoughts are expressions of who we are. To say that his comment is the stupidest ever seen on this site, first think how that makes them feel? If I said that about not only one of your posts but all of yours, how would you feel? You would either be hurt, not care, or get defensive or self-evaluate to see where that is true and see if there are any course corrections that need to be made. The first person is someone who is sensitive and probably more vulnerable due to situations in life. The second is an ignorant person or someone who makes a quick judgment and says that it's not them. The third are the proud and the guilty who taketh the truth to be hard or someone who has insecurity that they are not sure how to respond so they lash out. The last is the penitent who will see the truth and then see if they need to make changes, after properly evaluating they determine what needs to be done and does it and then moves on not worrying about it. That last one is hard for everyone but is the best. A number of people remain ignorant, and there are also many that have the insecurities that will either be hurt or get defensive. Do we want to add to that mountain of reason to be insecure? It doesn't matter whether they have it or not, but do we want to contribute? I don't. Attacking generally puts people on the defensive. Whatever the reason is. That is why we have to act with respect and love. The love will help the person feel safe and will actually listen to what was said.

Long example from my life. When I am attacked, unless I have time to evaluate more sides to a story like here or if I feel I am doing well spiritually, then I often will be a little defensive. In this setting, I can often look to see the other person's point of view. Though those insecure moments for me are all because of my spirituality. If I better about reading and praying, then I make better decisions and I feel more at peace so when I am attacked I have God-given strength to evaluate their side quickly and respond respectfully or kindly. But when I am having a bad day, boy I will fire back and unless you are a high superior then I will adjust but I will grumble. Anyways, a person probably made the right point but because of how I was treated, I ain't hearing it. I don't care. If someone who tries to manipulate me to do something and I realize it. I ain't doing it. I will spite the person. Is it Christlike no, but I feel an eye for an eye in those situations instead of the mercy and love that I should show. On good days, show me respect and I'll show you respect. Don't show me respect and I'll show you respect. On a bad day, show me respect and I'll show you respect. Don't show me respect, and you ain't getting it.

I guess my big point with all of this is if we respect others then our consciences can be clear that we didn't drive people away. We might have the right point to make, but often people hear the manner in which we teach the point more than the actual message. That is an error in humans, but it is just as Jacob expressed/prayed in Jacob 4 essentially saying I hope that my anxiety for you does not get in the way of the message. We need to be wary of how we communicate lest others misinterpret it and turn away from the Gospel.

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What does this post mean?

Dove's original quote was, "I just don't think we should inflict our perspectives/judgements on someone else when we haven't walked a mile in their moccasins." Dravin was simply pointing out that merely posting in the thread was itself "inflicting our perspective/judgements on someone else."

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Selek,

So what did I not like? It was just the way we went about it. If something is wrong then something should be said. Just not in overbearance as Alma 38 says. When it begins to be more than just talking about the issue and we condemn the person. Actions, words, thoughts are expressions of who we are. To say that his comment is the stupidest ever seen on this site, first think how that makes them feel? If I said that about not only one of your posts but all of yours, how would you feel? You would either be hurt, not care, or get defensive or self-evaluate to see where that is true and see if there are any course corrections that need to be made. The first person is someone who is sensitive and probably more vulnerable due to situations in life. The second is an ignorant person or someone who makes a quick judgment and says that it's not them. The third are the proud and the guilty who taketh the truth to be hard or someone who has insecurity that they are not sure how to respond so they lash out. The last is the penitent who will see the truth and then see if they need to make changes, after properly evaluating they determine what needs to be done and does it and then moves on not worrying about it. That last one is hard for everyone but is the best. A number of people remain ignorant, and there are also many that have the insecurities that will either be hurt or get defensive. Do we want to add to that mountain of reason to be insecure? It doesn't matter whether they have it or not, but do we want to contribute? I don't. Attacking generally puts people on the defensive. Whatever the reason is. That is why we have to act with respect and love. The love will help the person feel safe and will actually listen to what was said.

ThirdPersonViewer;

I really like all that you said. I just wanted to focus a little on the point you made about "the stupidest comment ever made on this site."

Along with that being hurtful for most anyone reading it, I think it's important to realise the intent with which it was said. To me, it bespeaks bad will and a condescending tone at the very worst to a challenging and debative tone at the least.

Well said, 3rd Person Viewer!!

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Dove's original quote was, "I just don't think we should inflict our perspectives/judgements on someone else when we haven't walked a mile in their moccasins." Dravin was simply pointing out that merely posting in the thread was itself "inflicting our perspective/judgements on someone else."

Vort, thank you for responding.

I do not think that by merely posting on a thread necessarily constitutes inflicting judgement on somebody else. Yes, of course, we are offering our perspective and opinion, but not necessarily judgement.

I think that too many threads lately have had sarcasm and bashing...sometimes from all sides, sometimes not.

I like "talking". I like sharing. But I do not like the abrupt, callous manner in which some seem to be handling others lately.

If we cannot talk and share, then why are we on a forum? ^_^

I am not accusing...I am just trying to share what I have seen/felt lately. ~TG

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Would you say that a judge in a courtroom is the only one in the room to pronounce judgment? Yes, so what gives us the right to pronounce judgment on others?

This analogy is deeply and fundamentally flawed, and is in fact contrary to scripture and the Gospel.

We, as Latter-day Saints are commanded to by wise and discerning, and to use good judgement every day, every moment of our lives.

Every time we are confronted with a choice between good and evil, we are making a judgement.

Do you prohibit your children from hanging around with known drug dealers? Congratulations- you just made a judgement.

Do you allow your teen daughter to spend alone time with the forty-year-old man in the trenchcoat who just wants to take some art pictures of her in the privacy of his mother's basement?

Congratulations, you just made another judgement.

Knowing his current positions and attitude, would you want bigernflo as your ten-year-old's Sunday School teacher or Scoutmaster?

Congratulations, you just passed judgement on bigernflo.

So spare me the histrionics.

Contrary to the special pleading, touchy-feely politically correct nonsense, we are COMMANDED to be good judges, wise as serpents, and to confront, resist, and rebuke evil.

The idea that we are not allowed to judge is a lie, propogated by the father of all lies.

No one in this thread has judged, let alone condemned the OP.

We have expressed our concerns about his opinions, attitudes, and actions, but NO ONE here has consigned him to Outer Darkness or labelled him a Son of Perdition.

We have judged his attitudes, his actions, and his agenda.

Kindly show me one ounce of evidence that we have judged unrighteously.

No one has "condemned or hated" the person- we have in every instance attacked his attitude, his agenda and his behavior.

And still you complain.

Anything that involves hate is not of God.

Does that include the judgement and condemnation you are meting out on those willing to take bigernflo to task for his false doctrine?

We still are friendly with a person, we still treat them well, we still show respect.

As I have already said twice- the response bigernflo received is directly attributable to his conduct on this board.

Had he come to us in any other way, he would have been treated far, far differently.

Had he showed any interest in learning the truth- as opposed to preaching his new Gospel despite any and all correction- he would have been handled far, far, differently.

I understand that you're convinced that sugar attracts more flies than vinegar, but sometimes the truth must be stated plainly and without prevarication.

All opinions are NOT created equal, and all truth is NOT relative.

Bigernflo came here (by his own admission) specifically to promote false doctrine and to stir up the Saints to contention.

The Savior explicitly condemns both behaviors.

Your claim that I have judged bigernflo is false. To continue to repeat it is to bear false witness- something else the Savior had little patience for.

I get that you don't particularly like my methods.

I don't particularly care.

For all the handwringing, tearing of hair, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, not a single one of the wilting violets has shown that my statements were factually or doctrinally incorrect.

But kindly refrain from misrepresenting me or my position based on the fact that you have a problem with my approach.

Edited by selek

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One cannot prove sarcasm true or false. One cannot prove contempt true or false. One cannot prove disdain true or false.

And I don't need to call anybody names to express my thoughts. I don't need to become hostile to type my point. I don't need to mock and make fun to state my opinion. ~TG

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