Husband does Illegal graffiti


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That's my problem. What is the consequence? Calling the cops? Getting rid of his paint? I literally have no place to move out to so that isn't exactly doable. What is a good enough consequence?

Alison, you need to do two things right off the bat:

1) Talk to your Bishop.

2) Talk to a lawyer.

Both can provide you with good direction, wise counsel, and with the resources you need to safeguard your family.

Yes, the cracks you got here were a little harsher than they might have needed to be- but both you and your husband need to realize that this is not a game, a joke, or a thrill.

What he's doing poses a direct and immediate danger to your family.

It sounds like you get it- now he needs to get it.

I'd lend you a two-by-four with which to gently calibrate him, but my significant other doesn't want to share the one he uses.

In the interim, you will be in my prayers.

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I'm not supporting it, tolerating it or facilitating it in any way. However, I can't watch over him every minute of the day and I shouldn't have to. I'm not his babysitter. Since he is proving to not be capable of making responsible choices alone, I need help figuring out my next step.

I called the police and turned in my teenage son when he was doing illegal things and I wouldn't hesitate to call them again if it was my husband. Even more so since he's suppose to be setting the example for our children. Just the fact that his actions are hurting you and your family is enough to put a stop to it.

One very important commitment in a marriage is that there should never be behaviors that put the family in danger. Any illegal activity hurts the family.

Its black and white for me. I'm not sure why it isn't for you.

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Ok. He wants recognition. He does his tagging with his own name. Thats probably at least slightly important. How much of his art work done legally gets recognition? I have seen some interesting tagger art on the internet. Perhaps he could set up a site for displaying his tagger art?

For the adrenalin he really does need to have an outlet for that. Around here the adrenalin junkies do offroading, rock climbing and base jumping. No doubt there is some thing equally stupid where you live. lol. Ok I am not an adrenalin junkie so I think the activities are stupid but for them they are an important part of their lives. The nice thing is they are legal.

Down in Santa Cruz, Ca. they apparently have a lot of artists/taggers so they have them decorate the town or so it seems. It is done with murals etc which he said was not exciting but IF he wants recognition it would work. Now he says he wouldnt like it but then again he hasnt done any yet has he?

I dont know how you can be any more responsible than you are now. You are trying to find a solution. I hope you have luck.

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BTW, doing this kind of illegal activity is often done for the thrill of it. It is impulsive, which pumps adrenaline into the blood. I work as a counselor in a prison, and this is a sign of someone who is ripe for jail. Watch for signs of him also using drugs, or perhaps breaking other small laws, as well.

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I work as a counselor in a prison, and this is a sign of someone who is ripe for jail. .

With due respect, you are seeing those that were into illegal other things and got caught. It is not possible to legitimately work backwards from that to assume most taggers are the same as the ones you see every day in prison.

I dont know any taggers except the jerks who painted up our backyard shed and I only know of them so I admit I am not experienced in anything to do with tagging. For what it is worth, I just dont think you can lump all, or even most, taggers with the ones you see in prison.

(The ones in my backyard I would since it is clearly not art and its in my backyard! Yuck)

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Its black and white for me. I'm not sure why it isn't for you.

It is incredibly common for family to have someone engaged in non-violent, but illegal activity, and for them to watch in frustration. My guess is that the majority of family members would not turn their loved ones in, if the crimes committed were not of a violent nature.

If you and some others are right about how serious and scary this behavior is, then another option might be separation (not divorce). It's a personal call, but if the OP feels strongly enough about it, the ultimatum would be, "I love you, want you, and need you. But this tagging is scaring me. It's effecting my emotional health because I am so worried about you. The example you are setting is, frankly, poor. I will never divorce you over this. However, neither can I live with it. So, for now, you or I need to move out."

Maybe if he sees how seriously his behavior is effecting the OP he will snap out of this selfish form of thrill-seeking.

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Hey--if he's got no problem artistically expressing himself on other people's stuff, I presume he'd be absolutely fine if his wife took herself down to Home Depot, picked up some paint and other necessaries, and proceeded to "redecorate" the family home and its contents (perhaps including his car, furniture, television, scrapbooks and high school yearbooks, etc) any darned way she wanted.

It's only fair. Alison, today may be your lucky day. :satan:

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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With due respect, you are seeing those that were into illegal other things and got caught. It is not possible to legitimately work backwards from that to assume most taggers are the same as the ones you see every day in prison.

I dont know any taggers except the jerks who painted up our backyard shed and I only know of them so I admit I am not experienced in anything to do with tagging. For what it is worth, I just dont think you can lump all, or even most, taggers with the ones you see in prison.

(The ones in my backyard I would since it is clearly not art and its in my backyard! Yuck)

There are two things that came out of your statement that are worth noting.

The first is the tacit admission that you define "criminal" based on whose ox is being gored.

If they tag YOUR stuff, it's a crime.

If they tag SOMEONE ELSE'S stuff, it's "art".

The second thing is that despite your own admission that you "dont know any taggers except the jerks who painted up our backyard shed", you are willing to gainsay someone who actually works in the field.

Never, ever let it said that you will allow your opinion to be muddled by anything so pernicious as someone who knows what they're talking about.

You are trying to argue that alison's husband is different because the prison population got caught.

Caught or not is irrelevant (and only a matter of time). The man is still knowingly breaking the law.

Moreover, you missed Rameumptom's point: he was not comparing one set of taggers with another, he was comparing one set of behaviors with one that he sees every day.

Allison's husband is committing crimes for the thrill of it.

Whether he gets his jollies from "tagging", breaking windows, shooting out car tires, or arson- the increasing need for an adrenalin "fix" is going to lead this man into legal trouble sooner, rather than later.

Edited by selek
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There are two things that came out of your statement that are worth noting.

The first is the tacit admission that you define "criminal" based on whose ox is being gored.

If they tag YOUR stuff, it's a crime.

If they tag SOMEONE ELSE'S stuff, it's "art".

The second thing is that despite your own admission that you "dont know any taggers except the jerks who painted up our backyard shed", you are willing to gainsay someone who actually works in the field.

Never let it said that you will allow your opinion to be muddled by anything so mundane as evidence.

Moreover, you missed Rameumptom's point: he was not comparing one set of taggers with another, he was comparing one set of behaviors with one that he sees every day.

Whether its tagging, breaking windows, shooting out car tires, or arson- the increasing need for an adrenalin "fix" is going to lead this man into legal trouble sooner, rather than later.

Did any one ever accuse you of lacking a sense of humor? I was JOKING about the graffiti in my back yard. It was most likely done by a boy next door who lost his dad not that long before the graffiti showed up. I dont really regard him as a criminal. He is about ten years old.

Rameumptom was using his set of observations of prisoners to state an opinion. I dont have to be a tagger to see that the logic was fallible. Note I am not saying he is wrong but he could well be since he only sees criminals who have been tossed in prison, a very select group. I doubt any are there for tagging.

How do you know this mans actions are escalating? It seemed she was saying they are sporadic not escalating. How often are taggers tossed in jail if they are not involved in anything else illegal?

I would suggest that his desires for the thrill be diverted to something more appropriate. He is obviously a very busy man with work, school and family. Some stress relieve would probably help.

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Good Afternoon All! :)

I hope alison_143 will forgive me because my post will be slightly off topic. But, based on what I'm reading, I'm apparently not grasping the severity of the issue here.

When I read through the responses in this thread I am genuinely surprised by some of the reactions. I agree that the husband needs to stop painting illegal graffiti. I agree that there are dangers involved with doing this activity. I also agree that the man is acting in an irresponsible manner.

Now, maybe I'm just naive and ignorant, but, is painting graffiti illegally really such a horrible thing that we are justified in almost immediately labelling someone a gangster, a druggie, a man-child, or a child? Should the OP really be considering divorce or questioning why they even married this guy? Are we really talking about a "direct and immediate danger" to the family? Really?

Based on what I currently know and understand, I feel that these types of responses to the OP's dilemma are hyperbolic and an overreaction. More importantly, I don't think they are actually helpful to the OP.

What am I missing? My question is sincere.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited by Finrock
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Finrock, that was my first reaction too. On the other hand, obedience to the law is very strong in LDS teaching--more so than in most. Also, engaging in illegal activity at night, when it is possible for police to respond, could lead to accidental shooting. And, indeed, if their are children, they are learning that it is okay to skirt the law for thrills. Still, part of me wonders at just how strong some of the reactions are.

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Hi prisonchaplain. I hope you're doing well! :)

Finrock, that was my first reaction too. On the other hand, obedience to the law is very strong in LDS teaching--more so than in most. Also, engaging in illegal activity at night, when it is possible for police to respond, could lead to accidental shooting. And, indeed, if their are children, they are learning that it is okay to skirt the law for thrills. Still, part of me wonders at just how strong some of the reactions are.

Thank you for the response. You bring up good points, all of which I agree are reasons not to paint graffiti illegally. For instance, I hadn't considered the danger of being accidentally shot by the police (although I had considered being shot by actual gang members).

Perhaps I'm more libertarian than many here, but I don't automatically consider any illegal activity to also be immoral activity. In fact, there have been, there are, and there will continue to be cases where acting legally is immoral and I hope to have the courage to always act morally, regardless of the law of the land.

Regards,

Finrock

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...doing online schooling with BYU-I...

The pathways program for attending BYU-I requires adherence to the BYU honor code... even at home.

I can guarantee you that "tagging" and graffiti are not approved activities under the BYU honor code.

This is another thing that you can talk to your bishop about... as this relates to his worthiness of continued "ecclesiastical endorsement" for continued attendance.

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How much of his art work done legally gets recognition?

Perhaps he could set up a site for displaying his tagger art?

I dont know how you can be any more responsible than you are now. You are trying to find a solution. I hope you have luck.

He has done some work for people in MMA gyms and worked with other businesses to put up murals for them. He does have a website set up with his legal work on it. He has done plenty of legal stuff. It just doesn't seem to be the same for him though. It doesn't scratch his itch. I think I will talk to my Bishop to get his advise before I make any calls to the police. I am fully willing to make that call.

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Good Afternoon All! :)

Now, maybe I'm just naive and ignorant, but, is painting graffiti illegally really such a horrible thing that we are justified in almost immediately labelling someone a gangster, a druggie, a man-child, or a child? Should the OP really be considering divorce or questioning why they even married this guy? Are we really talking about a "direct and immediate danger" to the family? Really?

I am not considering divorce or separation. Let me just make that clear. We have a great marriage with this singular, very large hiccup. It is serious in that he could be charged a felony for the amount of property he has damaged. As for being a gangster or a druggie, that is out of the question with him. Please don't judge me as naive. As blurred as his line is with graffiti, his line is quite clear with those things. There is an immediate danger to our family as he could end up in jail and I'm stuck trying to figure out life with just me and our kid.

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Alison, what would happen if you sat down and wrote out a detailed plan of what you would do if he ended up in jail. How you would deal with the loss of income etc. Then present it to him.

Do you happen to know if any of his tagger friends have ever ended up in jail over this? Have they been hit with fines and if so how much?

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Ok, heard back from my wife, who seconds the opinion here that he sounds like an adrenalin junkie - the risk is part of the fun.

She mentioned health insurance and life insurance often will not cover injuries suffered while engaging in illegal or high-risk behavior. So if he has delusions of life insurance making stuff ok for you and the kid if something happens, he needs to think again. She also mentions that the non-gang taggers she has run into over the years (and there have been a few), are totally clueless about gangs and territory and whatnot - they're just good artists who live for a thrill.

Idea my wife suggested to someone: Encourage him to go legal. Go buy some spray paint and some 4X8 sheets of plywood. Head to a park with him. Set it up, and say "Paint me a sports car" or something like that. Someone came by and paid this kid $200 for it. It wasn't the money that did the trick, it was the attention that came from people watching him while he worked.

Have him make up and hand out business cards - Art murals - basketball courts - bedrooms - swank restaurants etc. Depending on where you live, there could be a big market for businesses that want to look cool.

If he's resisting the idea that he might run into trouble with a gang, post some of his work here, and let me know what city you folks are in. My wife may be able to say if it resembles any particular gang style, and maybe even can give him some suggestions on how to minimize the risk of ticking off the wrong people.

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
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With due respect, you are seeing those that were into illegal other things and got caught. It is not possible to legitimately work backwards from that to assume most taggers are the same as the ones you see every day in prison.

I dont know any taggers except the jerks who painted up our backyard shed and I only know of them so I admit I am not experienced in anything to do with tagging. For what it is worth, I just dont think you can lump all, or even most, taggers with the ones you see in prison.

(The ones in my backyard I would since it is clearly not art and its in my backyard! Yuck)

I am speaking in generalities from behavioral patterns. You are speaking from no experience. Other behavioral patterns that suggest someone is involved in risky behaviors that can lead to prison? Tattoos, piercings, drug use, gang involvement, etc. Most people that are arrested for theft, generally are trying to raise money for their drug habit. Yes, there are exceptions, but the patterns are there. Someone who seeks fame, wealth or power by doing something illegal is someone who is displaying risky behavior, which can lead to darker things.

So, I don't lump taggers together. I lump those who display risky behavior together. And if he doesn't turn things around, he belongs in prison to protect other people's property. You would have no problem lumping murderers, drug dealers or rapists into groups, why cut slack for those doing other crimes? There are victims of non-violent crimes too. The cost of cleaning up his vandalism can cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. That means some shop owner cannot afford to send his kid to college.

So, let's focus on the risky, illegal behavior, not on the issue of how pretty his vandalism art is.

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I am speaking in generalities from behavioral patterns. You are speaking from no experience. Other behavioral patterns that suggest someone is involved in risky behaviors that can lead to prison? Tattoos, piercings, drug use, gang involvement, etc. Most people that are arrested for theft, generally are trying to raise money for their drug habit. Yes, there are exceptions, but the patterns are there. Someone who seeks fame, wealth or power by doing something illegal is someone who is displaying risky behavior, which can lead to darker things.

So, I don't lump taggers together. I lump those who display risky behavior together. And if he doesn't turn things around, he belongs in prison to protect other people's property. You would have no problem lumping murderers, drug dealers or rapists into groups, why cut slack for those doing other crimes? There are victims of non-violent crimes too. The cost of cleaning up his vandalism can cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. That means some shop owner cannot afford to send his kid to college.

So, let's focus on the risky, illegal behavior, not on the issue of how pretty his vandalism art is.

If none of us were allowed to use common sense and logic instead of personal experience in this forum there would be very few posts on here. You have no experience with taggers who have never been imprisoned but feel quite free to not only critique me but them as well. :)

Tagging as the OP's husband is doing is wrong. Not sure anyone said anything different. The question here is what can she do to convince her husband to stop this behaviour not who amongst us has a proper credentials to discuss it.

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