Richard Dutcher, creator of God's Army films, leaves the Church

[Magus]

Utah Local News - Salt Lake City News, Sports, Archive - The Salt Lake Tribune

This is likely old news to many if not most of you, but I just found this out. His page on wikipedia also talks about it.

Anyway - so article puts it like this, with his quotes:

Dutcher pressed ahead, though, with plans to write and direct what he envisioned would be a Mormon epic: "The Prophet," a biography of LDS Church founder Joseph Smith.

That's when his life changed.

"The filmmaking process, up to that point, had kind of informed my spiritual life, and my spiritual life had informed my filmmaking," he said. "Then what I found was the filmmaking itself led me to an entirely new and unexpected place."

In researching the life of Smith for his film, Dutcher said, "one day, I just simply asked myself the question, 'What if it simply isn't true?' " In a faith where adherents often begin their testimony with "I know this church is true," that question carries enormous weight.

"My own brain, something from the deepest part of me, said, 'Of course it isn't true.' After that, the whole house of cards fell," Dutcher said. "In a very real sense, in the time span of one minute, I went from being a true believer to being a complete nonbeliever. It was actually quite terrifying."

Dutcher's "faith crisis," as he often calls it, caused "a complete upheaval of my entire life, my personal life, my professional life." It confused his audience and drove away potential financial backers — and was a contributing factor, though he says not the only one, in his divorce last year from his wife of 23 years, Gwen.

I gotta admit - I LOL'd when I read this. Both in genuine laughter but also in pity. I mean, what a pathetic shame. Seriously, Richard - did you have a testimony to begin with??? You seriously just lost your testimony out of the blue when you started digging into the nitty gritty of Joseph Smith's history?? What exactly did you think a testimony was, if it was to be lost so easily?? Were you really such a woefully naive member of the Church to have yours completely shattered once you dug beneath the surface and had it challenged by things most members today either don't know about or prefer not to talk about?? I find that shocking if that's true - and also very, very disappointing.

I'm just gonna say - for the record - I got no problem, zilch, with any of the so-called controversies that can be found when you dig beneath the user-friendly version of LDS Church history, particularly regarding Joseph Smith. Dabbling in astrology and the occult? Yeah - I'm cool with that. Marrying young teenage girls? Yep, I'm cool with that too. Anything else? The world Joseph Smith was aware of was so much more vast than any of us comprehend in our own little worlds of limited vision and understanding. The man was a prolific visionary touched by God, period. I've delved so much into this stuff that none of the "controversial" stuff is really shocking to me. I've done my homework pretty good on Joseph Smith, investigating both sides. And you know what? The Holy Ghost has born witness to me that he was a prophet, that the Book of Mormon is true, that the angel Moroni really did appear to the Three Witnesses, etc. I have a specific testimony of these things. It's too bad Richard Dutcher doesn't. How lame to have created such faith inspiring work, and then leave it like that. I truly wish him well in his quest for truth and hope it will bring him back into the fold.

Ya know, for all the things you can criticize the Church for as an organization or a cultural community - none of it negates the core truths. People forget that!!!

Edited March 12, 2013 by Magus

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Magus, be careful. Once upon a time, I was like you...very sure of myself, very judgmental about what I thought was "the right way" and how people should act when they had "enough faith".

Then it was as if Heavenly Father said, "You think so?" And one by one, He tested me on all those things. I still have a testimony, but it has been a very hard time, and I have learned to love people and not judge them. Honestly, I have a fondness for Richard Dutcher and so your post irritated me, but I don't want any more of those "You think so?" lessons, so I had to pull back and try to see things from your point of view, and remember a time when I might have said the same things.

Remember when the question was put to Jesus about which was the greatest commandment? Remember what He said? Love God and love your neighbor. All the commandments hang on those. I interpret that to mean that if you love Christ, you need to love and pray for Bro. Dutcher. Christ said we should pray for our enemies, and Richard Dutcher is not your enemy.

I never thought I would have a "faith crisis" either...but I have (it had nothing to do with church history). I've had a couple experiences that really refined my faith actually...you might say I lack faith but my Patriarchal Blessing says I have "great faith". Go figure. A faith crisis is a very painful thing, don't laugh other people's pain.

Remember this when Heavenly Father decided it is time for YOU to learn a little more charity and humility. Pray that you keep your testimony through the process.

And I am serious about praying for Richard Dutcher. People who have "fallen away" need our love, not our judgment.

Edited March 12, 2013 by LiterateParakeet

[MarginOfError]

I'd also be careful in displaying an attitude such as that shown. When members of the church talk like this, Magus, it makes a those who do have doubts feel like they are in a hostile environment. People who have crises of faith need to be met where they stand with love, compassion, and charity. They don't need mockery or pity. If we want an individual to feel the spirit, we need to create an atmosphere in which that individual will feel comfortable enough to feel the spirit. I fear that, for most people, your reaction would reinforce their crisis of faith--not help to overcome it.

[Wingnut]

I'm not surprised one bit that Dutcher has left the Church, but I'm very much in disagreement with the OP's superiority complex.

[Bini]

Magus, I'm sure you're not the only disappointed fan but you are no better than anyone else.

[carlimac]

I do think the OP asks a good question though, "Did you even have a testimony to begin with?" And that's something we all need to ask ourselves. Do we have testimonies or are we just cultural Mormons who'd be completely unable to leave, even if we found out it was all a hoax, just because all our family and friends are believers and because going to church on Sunday is such a comfortable habit.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I do think the OP asks a good question though, "Did you even have a testimony to begin with?" And that's something we all need to ask ourselves.

Even when we have a testimony, our faith will continue to be tried...never think you are beyond being tested or falling away.

[Vort]

I think Dutcher's is a sad story. I don't laugh at him, I weep for him (metaphorically, at least). To say that you go from true believer to complete non-believer in the space of sixty seconds -- well, no, that just does not happen. That is the story he's telling himself.

I don't sense that this is a case of blatant dishonesty, as seems so often to be the case in those who apostatize. This seems to be something more subtle and complex. I think Dutcher honestly believes what he says; I don't sense he's being duplicitous or overtly self-serving.

Of course, my sense of the matter and five dollars will buy you a cup of hot chocolate at Starbucks. But if I'm looking for a poster boy to justify eye-rolling at their dishonesty, I probably would not pick Dutcher. The caravan moves on without him, but the loss of his talent is a loss to the Church, not even considering the worth of his soul.

[Magus]

Magus, be careful. Once upon a time, I was like you...very sure of myself, very judgmental about what I thought was "the right way" and how people should act when they had "enough faith".

Then it was as if Heavenly Father said, "You think so?" And one by one, He tested me on all those things. I still have a testimony, but it has been a very hard time, and I have learned to love people and not judge them. Honestly, I have a fondness for Richard Dutcher and so your post irritated me, but I don't want any more of those "You think so?" lessons, so I had to pull back and try to see things from your point of view, and remember a time when I might have said the same things.

Remember when the question was put to Jesus about which was the greatest commandment? Remember what He said? Love God and love your neighbor. All the commandments hang on those. I interpret that to mean that if you love Christ, you need to love and pray for Bro. Dutcher. Christ said we should pray for our enemies, and Richard Dutcher is not your enemy.

I never thought I would have a "faith crisis" either...but I have (it had nothing to do with church history). I've had a couple experiences that really refined my faith actually...you might say I lack faith but my Patriarchal Blessing says I have "great faith". Go figure. A faith crisis is a very painful thing, don't laugh other people's pain.

Remember this when Heavenly Father decided it is time for YOU to learn a little more charity and humility. Pray that you keep your testimony through the process.

And I am serious about praying for Richard Dutcher. People who have "fallen away" need our love, not our judgment.

Ah, you were like me, eh? You know me so well after one post!

Thanks for the well-meaning lecture, but totally unnecessary. I have every good wish for Richard Dutcher - and I can still think it's lame that he left the Church. I think I'm in a position to make that judgment on that. You don't need to be offended by that just because you have also had a "faith crisis" before. Believe me, I am plenty "understanding" - I just also have an opinion. I sympathize with anyone who has a "faith crisis", as I've had my own in my life, but of all the things to leave the Church over (especially for someone like Dutcher) I feel any historical reasons are pretty silly. Pride, personal sins, I could accept those (though still lame, of course) but having a problem with history? Really? I just can't help but wonder if he even bothered to read both sides of history. Though I suppose if he did, he must not have had enough faith (or a testimony) to overcome any doubts. Which again, is lame, considering the faith inspiring movies he made. It's quite ironic, makes you wonder what in the world his testimony was based on to begin with. It kind of makes me feel deceived.

[Magus]

I think Dutcher's is a sad story. I don't laugh at him, I weep for him (metaphorically, at least). To say that you go from true believer to complete non-believer in the space of sixty seconds -- well, no, that just does not happen. That is the story he's telling himself.

I don't sense that this is a case of blatant dishonesty, as seems so often to be the case in those who apostatize. This seems to be something more subtle and complex. I think Dutcher honestly believes what he says; I don't sense he's being duplicitous or overtly self-serving.

Of course, my sense of the matter and five dollars will buy you a cup of hot chocolate at Starbucks. But if I'm looking for a poster boy to justify eye-rolling at their dishonesty, I probably would not pick Dutcher. The caravan moves on without him, but the loss of his talent is a loss to the Church, not even considering the worth of his soul.

I'm not laughing at Dutcher - I'm laughing at the sad, pathetic irony of the situation.

[Magus]

Even when we have a testimony, our faith will continue to be tried...never think you are beyond being tested or falling away.

Yeah, I don't. We are all tried every day. So what else is new.

Are you trying to tell me the big testimony-shattering boogie man is out there waiting for me and I better watch out, because oh boy you found him? Just because you had a difficult experience doesn't mean that those of us who have strong testimonies and have a good grasp of Church history need to walk on eggshells so as to appear sympathetic and unoffensive to those who have had issues.

For the record - I am sympathetic and understanding to whatever issues you had. I know I'm coming off as bull-headed. I just don't like being told to "be careful" and that I am

" very judgmental about what I thought was "the right way" and how people should act when they had "enough faith"

.when I didn't say anything that was really offensive. I don't need to be careful for anybody, k? And I don't think you know me well enough, or could even glean enough from my post, to be saying that I am "very judgmental" of people. Good grief, a person can have an opinion.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Magus

[Magus]

I'd also be careful in displaying an attitude such as that shown. When members of the church talk like this, Magus, it makes a those who do have doubts feel like they are in a hostile environment. People who have crises of faith need to be met where they stand with love, compassion, and charity. They don't need mockery or pity. If we want an individual to feel the spirit, we need to create an atmosphere in which that individual will feel comfortable enough to feel the spirit. I fear that, for most people, your reaction would reinforce their crisis of faith--not help to overcome it.

What is this, the LDS doubters support group?

Again, I don't need to walk on eggshells for anyone. People need to not be so overly sensitive when someone comes around and expresses a strong opinion.

For all you know, maybe someone DOES need to say something to him that feels like a slap in the face. For all you know, maybe someone DOES need to say to him, "hey dude, where was your head at? you claimed to have a testimony all this time and it just evaporated? What the crap kind of pathetic testimony was that? Lame!"

Maybe it's time people in this Church stopped relying on weak testimonies altogether? Stopped saying "I know this" and "I know that" when they really don't, like it's some kind of therapy session. Maybe we shouldn't really say "I know" unless WE REALLY KNOW. And then go and find that knowledge for ourselves, for real. Maybe then we could say we know things with real authority, and maybe then our Church wouldn't have such a dismal retention problem.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Magus

[Magus]

Magus, I'm sure you're not the only disappointed fan but you are no better than anyone else.

LOL, where did I say I was better than anyone else?

Looks like we got quite a few people here who have security issues.

For the record, I have the utmost respect for Dutcher. He's a great creative mind and a child of God. And I wished him well in his spiritual journey, did I not?

BUt nooooo, if I don't act all mooshy gooshy, overly sympathetic and "understanding" for what is undeniably a very regrettable and exquisitely ironic situation, I somehow think I'm better than everyone else.

Excellent conclusion there.

[Magus]

I'm not surprised one bit that Dutcher has left the Church, but I'm very much in disagreement with the OP's superiority complex.

hahahaha, superiority complex!

this is rich. I'm LOLing here.

Yeah, well, obviously my testimony is superior to Dutcher's. What can I say.

We got a really tender bunch here, don't we.

[Magus]

No hard feelings, everybody. Just don't tell me to back off like I'm somehow out of line for having a strong testimony and calling Dutcher out for giving up on his faith.

[Wingnut]

.when I didn't say anything that was really offensive.

Considering that everyone in this thread took offense to what you said (or at least, how you said it), I'd say you're wrong. Just because you didn't intend offense doesn't mean that it wasn't offensive.

[Guest]

It's kind of bad form to join a forum, start a thread, and dis everyone who doesn't agree with you before you even get a feel for the forum culture (side note with my mod hat: re-read the site rules found in one of the blue links at the top of the page. You agreed to them when you signed up.).

I don't think anyone here is happy that Dutcher made the choices he did. But having compassion for someone who is struggling doesn't make someone tender, at least not in the derogatory way you imply.

[Magus]

To Wingnut:

"Considering how everyone thinks x, x must be true"

Mmmmhm.

Or maybe we just have a lot of people here who aren't used to people like me making strong statements, and maybe have issues with that?

[pam]

To be honest I kind of see where Magus is coming from. I too would wonder how can someone go that quickly from a testimony to a non testimony. I still wonder sometimes how one little thing in the gospel or old church history can have such a bearing on whether someone stays or leaves the church.

So yeh..I can see where the OP is coming from. And yes I agree with others that there needs to be much love and understanding from others. But the points the OP brought up I understand too.

[Tough Grits]

Or maybe we just have a lot of people here who aren't used to people like me making strong statements [...] ?

Um, you're new here...so I take it that you haven't met some of our "strong" posters yet. Trust me, we have all kinds here.

[Magus]

It's kind of bad form to join a forum, start a thread, and dis everyone who doesn't agree with you before you even get a feel for the forum culture (side note with my mod hat: re-read the site rules found in one of the blue links at the top of the page. You agreed to them when you signed up.).

I don't think anyone here is happy that Dutcher made the choices he did. But having compassion for someone who is struggling doesn't make someone tender, at least not in the derogatory way you imply.

I actually have a lot of compassion toward Dutcher. Much Christ-like love for him here.

But I still think it's lame how things went down with him leaving the Church.

I mean no derogatory thoughts toward having compassion. But I do mean derogatory thoughts toward people who are all fluff and no stuff when it comes to having compassion. It's lame that people get so offended just because I said it's lame that Dutcher left the Church.

Also - I didn't join the forum and automatically "dis" everyone, people just started having issues with my strong statement, and started accusing me of having a "superiority complex" and thinking I am better than others and all of that.

So I'd say the judgmentalism is really the other way around, when you look at it objectively. I just came here and posted an opinion, and people who don't even know me started judging my character.

[Guest]

You're right, everyone else must be wrong. Our mistake.

[Magus]

Glad you saw the light.

[Magus]

Um, you're new here...so I take it that you haven't met some of our "strong" posters yet. Trust me, we have all kinds here.

Bring it!!

Nah, I'm used to posting on message boards where I'm the odd man out and people are actually very harsh to each other. Maybe that's part of why I come off as abrasive here to some.

[Guest]

Much of the time it's not what you say, quite as much as the delivery.