A tale of two philosophies

[Just_A_Guy]

Which of these do you feel is more in line with LDS teachings?

I don't think they're mutually contradictory, when you take the second quote in the context of Barlow's entire article.

Frankly, I think as Mormons we do ourselves a bit of a disservice if we engage in all kinds of rhetorical gymnastics trying to prove that the timeless Gospel of Jesus Christ and the priesthood (which we claim to be "without beginning of days or end of years") somehow conforms perfectly to the current social definition of "equality". It is undeniable that the Church sees men's and women's fundamental roles as separate. And it is an aphorism of western thought that "separate but equal is inherently unequal". Protesting our equality, or egalitarianism, in such a culture is ultimately a sucker's game as long as we maintain a males-only priesthood and draw a distinction between the roles of motherhood versus fatherhood.

If God were out to make us all equal, He wouldn't have different degrees of heaven. Making us all exactly the same--to borrow a popular phrase--was Satan's plan, not the Father's. Equality, when feasible, is very nice; but clearly it can be (and is) superseded by other gospel principles.

As for BCC--they're a fickle bunch. The same folks who are currently going gaga for Hudson and Miller's article today, will be pillorying that very same article within ten years as the clamor for female ordinations to the LDS priesthood grows ever more shrill.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[The Folk Prophet]

Equality, when feasible, is very nice; but clearly it can be (and is) superseded by other gospel principles.

I would go a bit further and say that if one truly accepts the theology of the patriarchal priesthood, that inequality is preferable, that we will have more joy from it than we would from equality, and that the levels of the kingdoms and glories and the inequalities therein are perfect and will be the very best for all. So it's not a matter of superseding, but a matter of the reality of wherein glory truly lies.

[The Folk Prophet]

So with respect to things like priesthood, family leadership, etc, the question that remains at the heart of the matter is if priesthood and family leadership are opportunities that are tied to biological sex, or are they social constructs?

I would content (lightly) that it's the other way around. Biological sex is a result of something else inherent in our basic existence that ties more closely to things like the priesthood and what-have-you. I theorize that biological sex is a result of something deeper. This is, of course, way beyond our ability to understand or any revealed concrete doctrine. But, well...there it is.

[MarginOfError]

I would content (lightly) that it's the other way around. Biological sex is a result of something else inherent in our basic existence that ties more closely to things like the priesthood and what-have-you. I theorize that biological sex is a result of something deeper. This is, of course, way beyond our ability to understand or any revealed concrete doctrine. But, well...there it is.

Which further validates my point.

[bytor2112]

For example, obtaining authorization for women to join combat forces was an equality issue. No one ever claimed that all women were as capable as all men for these positions. The goal was for women to have the same opportunity. Now that they have that opportunity, I don't hear any credible people complaining that women have to meet the same physical standards as men in order to be in combat units.

Of course the goal should have been maintaining the best defense for out nation regardless of gender....not opportunity.

[anan]

It's very easy to make arguments regarding specific roles when the other 50% don't even get a oppertunity to speak for themselves, or have power over those making the decisions. "As long as I'm up here and you're down there, what are you complaining about?"

[The Folk Prophet]

It's very easy to make arguments regarding specific roles when the other 50% don't even get a oppertunity to speak for themselves, or have power over those making the decisions. "As long as I'm up here and you're down there, what are you complaining about?"

Actually, it's a very difficult position to make an argument from in my view.

[Drpepper]

Every time my home teachers come over and say Your the head of the house who would you like to pray.

I just laugh. If you think Im the head of the house clearly you haven't met my wife.

[Traveler]

I believe I have a handle on symbolism and reality. The concept of equality appears to me to be a symbolic notion or ideal concept and not a demonstrable reality. I also think that in the realm of ideal concepts we often go way overboard trying to resolve the equality conundrum into expressions and claims of utter ridiculousness. Abraham (chapter 3) tells us very clearly that whenever there are two individuals - there will always exist a difference and that one will be greater than the other. So much for any reality in equality.

Unfortunately dealing honestly with any differences is more problematic than helpful - because of gross prejudices and unrealistic expectations. No one wants to be "the project" of anyone superior to them - the song "Popular" from the musical "Wicked" demonstrates this conundrum in a rather humorous way. By definition any person attempting to help someone of "lesser talent" is proud and looking down on their inferior co-hearts. Thus any assistance is considered demeaning and condescending; a trait considered negative and something to limit value (making them less than equal) to those that do not possess the trait - justifying punishment of those that possess such behaviors.

So we create an attitude of ignorance and failure trying to maintain equality by prevent anything superior. And we do it all in the name of G-d, a being that is actually superior to us all? It appears to me that those that claim to believe in equality because of religious background will balk the most at any suggestion that anyone should ever think themselves equal to G-d.

I honestly believe we loose the truth in the symbolism of "equality" in our unfounded and ridiculous arguments for it.

The Traveler