Church activity rate and Scripture Questions

[JodyTJ]

I've been doing a lot of research about how large the LDS church really is, and to my dismay, the Church isn't even half as active or large as it's officially said to be. I've read on Wikipedia, Cumorah, and among other sites that the Church only has an active membership of 4-5 million out of the supposed 14.4 million (apparently you aren't taken off until you're 110..) Even the Jehovah's Witnesses are larger, with an active membership of 7.7 million. Why is this so? And is this true that the Church is actually smaller then actually said to be? If it isn't true, please, give me a link. I do want to be in a church that is honest about how large it really is..

Also, I am looking into buying all four books of scripture in the LDS Church (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price), but I'm not sure whether I should buy them right now. For one, the Church came out with new editions (2013 editions. That's for hardcopies right, not just apps and on your laptops?). And I don't know how I should buy them. Should I buy a Quad, with all four scriptures, or buy the Bible by itself and get the triple combination that has the other scriptures? Really confused on how to go about this.

Thanks,

Jody

[Vort]

D'oh. Stupid Wikipedia, exposing our darkest secrets! We have to find some way to shut them up or shut them down. Methinks it's time to get the Danites involved...

[annewandering]

Then we have to define inactive. Inactivity is not necessarily the same as non believing. My husband and I are 'inactive' due to health issues. Others are inactive because they work during services.

[JodyTJ]

D'oh. Stupid Wikipedia, exposing our darkest secrets! We have to find some way to shut them up or shut them down. Methinks it's time to get the Danites involved...

Sorry. I'm just kind of curious, you know. I do want to become an LDS (the statistics thing isn't holding me back), it's just a little worrying.

In terms of inactivity, I mean believing in the Church and actually attending Church. Would you say the people that actually believe is more then just 4-5 million?

PS: Didn't want to offend anyone!

[estradling75]

Why are you worried about the number? Its not like a greater number means its more true.

The church as about 14.4 million members of record. Until a person requests and has their membership records removed, activity or not they are members. The church keeps track and (hopefully) reaches out trying to help them.

For someone that is not active we never know when they might come back, and when they do they are welcomed right back. So that does make a different number between the number of members on record and the number of members in the pews each Sunday. But what else would you have us do... Create a cutoff point? Oh brother so and so since you haven't been to church in 3 months we deleted your records so now you have to get baptized again??

The Church reports 14.4 million because it has (as far as it is concerned) it has 14.4 million members. If you want to know how many are active members you have to ask a more detailed question. Calling the answer dishonest is simply a failure in your expectation. The church has defined quite clearly what it considers, what it calls, and counts as members.

As for scriptures, it is totally a personal choice. Some like one, other like others and there isn't a wrong answer

Edited April 1, 2013 by estradling75

[annewandering]

I am positive that there are more who do believe than are counted. It really makes no difference however. When I was young there were less than a million total.

[annewandering]

For scriptures the quad is very nice but it is very thick and heavy. I prefer a triple and the bible separate. Actually I prefer my app on my Nook.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Jody, don't mind Vort...he's just Vort. As you get to know him better, you'll see that he was not offended by your comment, nor trying to offend you.

I don't know if this will help but...to me the numbers don't matter either way. If you decide at some point that this church is where the Lord wants you to be, then does it matter if there are 20 members or 20 million?

If what is bothering you is an issue of honesty, or perceived honesty, then the way I look at that is can you imagine keeping track of the numbers for such a large group? Good grief, I can't keep track of how many nieces and nephews I have. Not that it can't be done, but who is going to take the time, and how often will it be updated. As Annie said, who decided what "inactive" means. There was a full year that I was not able to go to church because of my job. Or there is my mother who has not attended church for 50 years, but she tells me that if she attended any church it would be the LDS church. So numbers can be deceiving without intentionally being so.

[Dravin]

And I don't know how I should buy them. Should I buy a Quad, with all four scriptures, or buy the Bible by itself and get the triple combination that has the other scriptures? Really confused on how to go about this.

Thanks,

Jody

It's a personal preference thing. I like to be able to have the Triple and Bible open side by side for cross referencing and the like while studying. On the other hand it can be less handy while jumping back and forth between them when your only surface is a lap (think during class at Church).

Edited April 1, 2013 by Dravin

[mnn727]

Is the Church any less true if some people don't go every Sunday?

Why do we report 15+ million? because that's how many people that are living that have been baptized that have not requested their names be removed from the membership rolls.

Some may never go, some work Sundays, Some have health issues, Some like to sleep late occasionally, Some don't go when they're out of town, and yes, some people stop believing(some permanent, some temporarily) there's many reasons why people do not come every Sunday.

We have 3 members in nursing homes in our ward that we take the Sacrament to every Sunday, they get home and visit taught, but they never show up as active members - should we remove them from the rolls to satisfy some statistician somewhere?

Edited April 2, 2013 by mnn727

[Vort]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that membership numbers include children of record, who technically are not members of the Church (because they are not baptized) but are counted as such for purposes of Church membership records.

[Roseslipper]

hi jody, the # thing doesnt make a difference. what makes a difference is You. Have u taken the missionary lessons and how do u feel about what u r learning? Have u sincerely prayed and prayed to know if its true? Do u feel like its home 4 u? THose are the real questions you should be asking...This is all about YOU and how u feel. ASk and you shall receive knock and it shall be given, but not in your way nor your time But in Gods. Remember God wants the very best 4 u, He's their to help and guide you onto the right path. I know that I have been blessed to be a member Of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints am I perfect? No i've made Millions of mistakes oh maybe my #'s off. Dont sweat the small stuff.

As far as what scriptures its ok to use the paper ones tilu know which ones you want.

[JodyTJ]

hi jody, the # thing doesnt make a difference. what makes a difference is You. Have u taken the missionary lessons and how do u feel about what u r learning? Have u sincerely prayed and prayed to know if its true? Do u feel like its home 4 u? THose are the real questions you should be asking...This is all about YOU and how u feel. ASk and you shall receive knock and it shall be given, but not in your way nor your time But in Gods. Remember God wants the very best 4 u, He's their to help and guide you onto the right path. I know that I have been blessed to be a member Of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints am I perfect? No i've made Millions of mistakes oh maybe my #'s off. Dont sweat the small stuff.

As far as what scriptures its ok to use the paper ones tilu know which ones you want.

I know, it really isn't a big deal for me. It's mostly about honesty from the Church.

Actually, last August I contacted some missionaries, and they came to my house and gave me the Bible and Book of Mormon. However, I wasn't there when they came (I was at school), but they came again and we talked for a few minutes. Unfortunately, my parents were not happy, especially my dad. So about a week later, he noticed I was reading the BoM and he hid it on me. I think he eventually through it in the garbage because he told me, and I quote "I don't want anything Mormon in my house" and I was really upset, and really mad. So my journey to the LDS Church came to an abrupt stop and now, after almost a year, I've gotten the courage to seek help on this forum.

Though I am still struggling with the BoM. I don't know if it's true because of all the critics saying it's not.

Edited April 2, 2013 by JodyTJ

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Though I am still struggling with the BoM. I don't know if it's true because of all the critics saying it's not.

I know it can be confusing, but keep in mind, there are plenty of critics out there that would be happy to tell you the Bible is not true either. And plenty of people to tell you that God does not exist.

So WHO to believe?

I chose to trust God...trust in Him that He is real, and trust the impressions that come to me from Him. I believe the Bible and the Book of Mormon are words of God to us. But what you need to know is not what critics say, and not even what I (or other LDS) say....BUT....what do you feel God is telling you? Read, pray, repeat....until you receive a certain answer. For some people it takes longer than others for various reasons. Just read and pray. Trust one source...God...to tell you if it is true or not.

[mnn727]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that membership numbers include children of record, who technically are not members of the Church (because they are not baptized) but are counted as such for purposes of Church membership records.

Your are right, I was just making it easier to state.

[Guest]

How do they come up with the 4-5 million active members number? Is that just Sacrament Meeting attendance numbers?

There are so many types that might be considered inactives... those who don't hold temple recommends but attend Church every Sunday. Those don't attend Sacrament Meeting for some reason or other but are temple recommend holders. Those who attend Sacrament meeting but don't go to Gospel Doctrine or Priesthood/RS for some reason or other. Those who attend all 3 but don't perform their callings such as Visiting Teaching/Home Teaching, etc.

The LDS Church is not a "Sunday" thing. It's a LIFE thing. Therefore, counting "inactives" is moot.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

How do they come up with the 4-5 million active members number? Is that just Sacrament Meeting attendance numbers?

There are so many types that might be considered inactives... those who don't hold temple recommends but attend Church every Sunday. Those don't attend Sacrament Meeting for some reason or other but are temple recommend holders. Those who attend Sacrament meeting but don't go to Gospel Doctrine or Priesthood/RS for some reason or other. Those who attend all 3 but don't perform their callings such as Visiting Teaching/Home Teaching, etc.

The LDS Church is not a "Sunday" thing. It's a LIFE thing. Therefore, counting "inactives" is moot.

I was told a long time ago that the church, for statistical purposes, counts inactives and actives solely based on church attendance. If you attend two weeks or less a month for church then you are considered inactive. It might even be if you only attend once a month.

Obviously you are right that there are so many things that demonstrate levels of activity. But statistics requires measureable data. its easy to measure sacrament meeting, and people attend it for the purpose of the sacrament and that is a reflection of people repenting(i.e changing, growing) during the week. So it gives a generality that these are the people moving forward and growing.

[Anddenex]

I know, it really isn't a big deal for me. It's mostly about honesty from the Church.

Actually, last August I contacted some missionaries, and they came to my house and gave me the Bible and Book of Mormon. However, I wasn't there when they came (I was at school), but they came again and we talked for a few minutes. Unfortunately, my parents were not happy, especially my dad. So about a week later, he noticed I was reading the BoM and he hid it on me. I think he eventually through it in the garbage because he told me, and I quote "I don't want anything Mormon in my house" and I was really upset, and really mad. So my journey to the LDS Church came to an abrupt stop and now, after almost a year, I've gotten the courage to seek help on this forum.

Though I am still struggling with the BoM. I don't know if it's true because of all the critics saying it's not.

Your situation is not uncommon with family members especially if you are still living at home. You would probably be surprised by how similar your circumstance is to others.

The Church is forthright and honest with the membership of the Church. The media, and other anti-organizations would like to paint the reality of the Church and its honesty in a different light.

The Church as as many members of record as it suggest and as other have pointed out, however the count includes active members, inactive members who don't believe anymore, and inactive members who still believe.

I struggled with Joseph Smith while a young teenager, and later on I finally received my witness and have received many others since that witness.

Do you believe in prayer? If so, do you believe God would be able to answer your prayer despite the critics? If this is God's true path, his gospel, wouldn't he witness it to you?

When we seek to know spiritual matters it is best to receive an answer from the source. It is best to read the Book of Mormon, more than once and discover what God tells you, not what man tells you.

Remember, if you are a Christian (I admit I don't know your background), then you believe in Christ. Imagine for a moment all the horrible things spoken about Christ from his critics. Did our Savior's critics determine him any less than who he was? No! Critics do not determine the validity of the Book of Mormon, God does.

Seek his will and answer. :)

[Guest]

I was told a long time ago that the church, for statistical purposes, counts inactives and actives solely based on church attendance. If you attend two weeks or less a month for church then you are considered inactive. It might even be if you only attend once a month.

Obviously you are right that there are so many things that demonstrate levels of activity. But statistics requires measureable data. its easy to measure sacrament meeting, and people attend it for the purpose of the sacrament and that is a reflection of people repenting(i.e changing, growing) during the week. So it gives a generality that these are the people moving forward and growing.

What is the point in having this erroneous measurable data? If our Home Teaching/Visiting Teaching/Ward Mission program is based on this statistic, they would be crippled and not really doing their callings right.

[Anddenex]

What is the point in having this erroneous measurable data? If our Home Teaching/Visiting Teaching/Ward Mission program is based on this statistic, they would be crippled and not really doing their callings right.

Have you been in any meeting which discusses the measurable data received by the Church?