I am Catholic, married to a Mormon

[August]

Hello,

It has been many years since I have posted here. When my wife and I got married 3 and a half years ago, I was an inactive Catholic and she an inactive Mormon. Over the last few months, we both started going back to our respective Churches, and are beginning the process of getting our marriage recognized by the Catholic Church. Basically, when we got married this wasn't an issue, and suddenly we find ourselves in a real interfaith marriage. Any advice? What do I need to do to help my wife practice her faith? What is fair for me to ask of her? What about kids? We've discussed all these issues of course, I just want to know if anyone in a similar situation has any thoughts or advice.

Thanks,

A.J.

[selek]

Hi August,

The day-to-day practice of the LDS and Catholic faiths differ little one from another: prayer, Scripture Study, and trying to live humble, Christ-like lives.

Your wife will want to avoid tobacco, coffee and tea, and alcohol. Depending upon her level of enthusiasm, she might also wish to avoid caffeinated sodas, but that's more a personal preference than anything else.

Except where there are medical or health reasons not to do so, Mormons tend to fast for two meals the first part of every month.

By the same token, she should respect your own abstentions and fasts (such as Lent).

That having been said, you will face the same choices and obstacles as any other inter-faith couple: mostly involving choices about which religious observations to honor and which to ignore, and, most especially, about what to teach your children.

These matters- particularly when approached in love and humility- can be overcome, and a reasonable compromise worked out (even if it's only an agreement to disagree).

Where the rub will well-and-truly begin (in my opinion) is on the question of Temple marriage.

LDS theology teaches that worthy couples may be "sealed" for time and all eternity.

Instead of "til death do you part", a temple marriage between worthy spouses does not end.

Not to put too fine a point on it, you (as a non-member) do not qualify.

That's NOT to say you're a bad person (nor anything of the sort); but the reality is that you have not (and as a non-member, cannot) make the covenants with God that are necessary for a sealing.

As your wife's faith grows, she will (all but inevitably) set her heart on the greatest gift our Heavenly Father offers: and will (equally inevitably) expect you to help her attain it.

I don't say this to discourage you- only to forewarn you. As her own faith grows, your wife will want you to share in what she has attained, and become a member of our Church and partake of the covenants and blessings offered therein.

In the interests of full disclosure, I hope you will do so, also).

As a matter of conscience (depending upon your loyalty to the Catholic Church and personal witness), you may- or may not- be able to do so.

No honorable (or faithful) Mormon will work to weaken the bonds between you and your wife, nor will any such pressure you to convert to the Mormon faith- except that you receive a witness of its truthfulness.

God will not be mocked- and you do us, nor yourself any favors simply by "going through the motions" to keep your wife, your in-laws, or the neighbors happy.

Ultimately, you and your wife have chosen a somewhat harder path than you might have realized.

You CAN make it work, and I encourage you to do so.

Both of you should:

Be prayerful, be humble, be patient, be forgiving.

Do not allow your disagreements to become a zero-sum game in which one of you must win and one must lose.

Leave room for "holy envy", and realize that both our faiths have something of beauty to offer those who worship Christ.

Above all else, keep your relationship- and its various trials between yourselves and the Lord.

Your family will automagically be your partisan. Hers will automagically side with her. Both will paint the other spouse as a villain and hold grudges long after you've forgotten them.

Such dubious allies cannot help but hinder your cause.

Edited April 28, 2013 by selek

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

A.J.,

That is a tricky situation to be sure, but it could happen to anyone. For example, sometimes people take care to marry someone that shares their faith, but then later, one of them loses the faith.

I haven't been there, so I really can't say. But if it helps, one of my closest friends is an atheist. Since she was LDS when I met her, things were a little awkward for awhile, but we got through it. What helps us is being respectful of one another's beliefs and/or values. I think respect is huge.

I think the most complicated part will be having children. When I was a child, my parents didn't attend church, so it was something I explored on my own. One day I decided I wanted to be baptized. I asked my mom and she said we were getting ready to move (from Texas to Arizona). She asked me to attend the LDS church first, but then I could choose for myself.

I would suggest and your wife expose your children to both faiths and let them choose, but it is my understanding that infant baptism is very important to Catholics so that could complicate things.

Mostly, I suggest a lot of prayer and respect for one another's beliefs. I think being more spiritual will bring more blessings to your relationship than problems. Enjoy your renewed faith...both of you!

[Leah]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say you are working to have your marriage recognized by the Catholic church?

I was once married to a Catholic and the information we were given was that I would have to become Catholic in order for the Church to recognize our marriage.

[August]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say you are working to have your marriage recognized by the Catholic church?

I was once married to a Catholic and the information we were given was that I would have to become Catholic in order for the Church to recognize our marriage.

Its not like that. We need to attend a few classes and some counseling. She needs to be aware of my commitment to do everything I can to raise the (future) kids catholic, but does not need to agree. This is more about me getting into good standing, I currently cannot receive communion as I am considered to be not married. My wife is very supportive of doing this.

[selek]

She needs to be aware of my commitment to do everything I can to raise the (future) kids catholic, but does not need to agree. This is more about me getting into good standing, I currently cannot receive communion as I am considered to be not married. My wife is very supportive of doing this.

Is she equally adamant that she should "do everything she can to raise the (future) kids LDS", but you do not need to agree?

I'm sorry, but this statement raises some serious red-flags for me.

Is your wife surrendering control of her (future) children's religious education a priori in order to appease your priesthood leaders?

Or are you making such a promise simply to "get back into good standing" with no intention of actually following through?

Either situation is deeply troubling...

...as you are 1) being dictated to about how you may or may not raise your children, and 2) to being forced to choose between your convictions and your loyalty to your spouse.

Edited April 28, 2013 by selek

[BadWolf]

Is she equally adamant that she should "do everything she can to raise the (future) kids LDS", but you do not need to agree?

I'm sorry, but this statement raises some serious red-flags for me.

Is your wife surrendering control of her (future) children's religious education a priori in order to appease your priesthood leaders?

Or are you making such a promise simply to "get back into good standing" with no intention of actually following through?

Either situation is deeply troubling...

...as you are 1) being dictated to about how you may or may not raise your children, and 2) to being forced to choose between your convictions and your loyalty to your spouse.

Its a Catholic thing: understanding without agreement. She will essentially tell the church that she understands, but she isn't forced to commit to the same. Which allows her to take the children to another church (or synagogue, mosque, temple, etc... anything nonCatholic) without it affecting either her husbands standing with the Catholic Church, nor her children's.

Think of it as informed consent without impacting agency.

It allows interfaith marriages to continue practicing their faiths without attempting to either lie to god or pull one over on your spouse.

Edited April 29, 2013 by BadWolf
Phat fingers

[Leah]

Its not like that. We need to attend a few classes and some counseling. She needs to be aware of my commitment to do everything I can to raise the (future) kids catholic, but does not need to agree. This is more about me getting into good standing, I currently cannot receive communion as I am considered to be not married. My wife is very supportive of doing this.

It is still not clear. What happens after the classes and the counseling? What is their purpose? How does it change your status in the church and why would you then be considered to be married? She'll still be Mormon and you still will not have had a Catholic marriage.

[prisonchaplain]

Personal opinion here...but I would strongly urge both husband and wife to pray and seek God's face until there can be an agreement on what church to raise the children in. I know people "agree to disagree" on these matters all the time. Children can grow to understand that mommy and daddy don't have to agree on everything. BUT, faith is important...it just might be worth tarrying before the Lord over, so "the two can become one."

[August]

It is still not clear. What happens after the classes and the counseling? What is their purpose? How does it change your status in the church and why would you then be considered to be married? She'll still be Mormon and you still will not have had a Catholic marriage.

I won't have a catholic marriage, but I will have a marriage the church will recognize as valid. The classes and counseling are what the church requires as a preparation for marriage, they deal with more than religion. After the classes, we would go through a low key and informal marriage ceremony with a priest so that we will be married in the eyes of my church. Marriage is different in the catholic church than the lds church, I need to fulfill the requirements for marriage in my church or they will not recognize my marriage. That means I cannot receive communion, or absolution in confession, until this is done. I know this seems strange to you, but this is what I need to do. Im not sure how well I am explaining this, I am learning this process as I go.

[pam]

So does she not need to convert to the Catholic church in order for it to be recognized as well?

[August]

So does she not need to convert to the Catholic church in order for it to be recognized as well?

No, she does not, the priest we spoke to was very clear that they would not pressure her to convert. The church has made interfaith marriage much easier than it used to be over the last few decades.

[Guest]

When my husband and I got married, I was a devout Catholic, he was inactive LDS. We did not (and could not) get married in the Catholic Church because we have not decided on what religion the kids will be raised as.

August, you have a difficult situation as a Catholic but it is not insurmountable. Currently, the Catholic Church sees you as not living the law of Chastity as your marriage is not valid. Therefore, you have to rectify the situation as part of your repentance process to attain full communion. I assume you got married in civil service and not in any faith service. This makes the situation more complicated than if you both attended a Baptist Church and got married there - this marriage would have been considered convalidated. So, to go into full communion, you have 2 options:

1.) get back into full communion now by abstaining from sexual relations until the marriage is convalidated to complete the repentance process and partake of the Eucharist now.

2.) delay full communion until convalidation.

As a devout Catholic, the first option is the better option although it is difficult to abstain. We never want to put obstacles in going back into full communion. It can be considered as a test of faith in the process of repentance. Make sense? Of course this can only be possible if your wife agrees.

Ok, as far as getting your marriage convalidated... a requirement is to raise your children in the Catholic faith. Your wife doesn't have to become Catholic, she just needs to agree to allow you to teach your children Catholic principles. It is better if they get baptized Catholic but it is not necessary as long as they will be taught Catholic principles (may be taught in addition to LDS principles although this can get quite confusing for little children). Your parish priest or deacon can guide you in getting your marriage blessed as soon as possible.

About your LDS wife, mutual respect is a requirement to make this marriage work. There should not be any resentment towards the practice of one's faith. As a Catholic, you will need to be cognizant that your LDS wife belongs to an action-oriented Church. This means that she will have some work to do for the Church - she will be assigned to visit some women in the church once a month and she will be visited by home teachers once a month. As she does not have the priesthood in her home, she will be constantly visited by missionaries (either ward missionaries or those full time missionaries you see with a white shirt and name tags). In addition, she may hold a "calling" at the church like teaching on Sunday, being a Cub Scout leader (usually meets on Wednesdays), etc. Your wife might also want you to reserve Monday nights as a day for her to teach you and your children LDS principles and be together as a family.

If you need further information, let me know. I can talk about both LDS and Catholic.

Edited April 29, 2013 by anatess

[Leah]

No, she does not, the priest we spoke to was very clear that they would not pressure her to convert. The church has made interfaith marriage much easier than it used to be over the last few decades.

My understanding of being married to a Catholic and having worked for priests for a decade, no priest can perform a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic and would not be allowed to be involved in such. You either have a Church sanctioned marriage or you don't, there is no such thing as an alternative or "low key" marriage. Can you provide us with church sources that explain this? The anecdote that supposedly a priest somewhere said that such was true would mean nothing as there are clergy that choose to do their own thing and not neccesarily follow church law or teaching.

[BadWolf]

As you've undoubtedly gathered, by now, there are levels of marriage in the LDS Church.

Temple Marriage / Sealed

Civil Marriage (recognized)

Vs Catholic

Catholic Marriage

Civil Marriage in good standing/recognized (what you're doing)

Civil Marriage unrecognized (where you're at)

The LDS Church only does not recognize gay marriage (all other marriages performed outside the temple or unsealed are recognized as valid marriages)... So there will be some confusion amongst your wife's churchy friends w/out a Catholic Background as to what you/she are doing... Because there's no good parallel in the LDS Church.

______________________

(because I have insomnia, Im jumping off topic here for a minute or 6)

You probably already know all this, but Im sick of staring at my ceiling not sleeping

_____________________

<grin> Theres actually going to be a lot of confusion on both sides of the street over probably the practical over the spiritual.

I would lay money that the most ongoing "Say what???" will be the other way round, and will be the

- Title if Bishop

- Priesthood. Since most adult male members in the LDS Church are priests, complete with years of seminary, and then a (majority if not most) having served as priests full time (missionaries) for 2 years before returning home to start a "normal" life.

- Relief Society (which appears to parallel CCS, but doesn't, it more closely parallels nuns/convents... If nuns married, raised families, pursued careers, etc.).

That's the activity expected of members, by the by, that Annatess mentioned. All the duties of the church are seen to by its priests & 'nuns'... But we're IT. Teaching, outreach, charity, medical, etc... Everything the CC assigns to its priest and nuns. We take vows & make covenants (in stages, just with different names than acolyte & novice, etc.) & have a lot expected of us... Simply nowhere near as much as a Catholic priest or nun.

Where a Catholic Priest may have a 80 hour week, we have a 10 hour week. Since we don't have a flock/congregation & the work is shared amongst millions of active members instead of a few thousand full time Priests (hundreds in a ward, vs 2-3 in a Parish). So its veeeeeeery manageable. But the vows are still in place. We are expected to act as if 24/7. < grin > Thank goodness we don't make a vow of celibacy or poverty, right? ANYHOW, I'm betting this will be the most consistent 'Say what / But why' because "her priest" will be coming over a couple times a month... But it won't be singular. "Her priest" will be one of dozens. But unless you elect to use Catholic Verbiage -I use CC verbiage when chatting with my family- there's likely to be rather a lot of confusion amongst your churchy friends.

I highly recommend the use of CC verbiage as much as possible. Ex)

My mum's cousin (Irish Catholic) came by the other week just as the missionaries were leaving. This is a synopsis of the conversation I had with her:

"Who was that just leaving?"

"Oh, I had my priest over for tea." (Brit Tea / Tiffin style).

"That's nice. He seems a bit young, though?"

"The LDS church sends all its new priests out to different parishes after seminary for 2 years. They rotate through, usually only staying with one ward/parish for a few months before moving on to the next. They're usually homesick & adjusting to all the change, so we try to invite them over for meals if they're not busy with parishioners / members in need."

"Well that's awfully kind. Heaven knows new priest usually take about 10 years to live down the mistakes they make the first few months. Shifting them about like that lets them learn without all that wasted time proving to Mrs. Keene they're not the newbie they were when they first came out. I swear, boys until 25 have a hollow leg, though. And after 25 they're still trying to prove they're as fit as 20. Men. Theres not enough food in the world. I have it on authority that Father Donovan went to SIX Thanksgiving dinners. Still. Its nice to have your priest come to visit. The good ones all do."

As we talk I usually start doubling phrases (ward/parish), until all my close family all speak LDS lingo as well as Catholic. But I try to stay in familiar terms with new people. Its a trick I learned from a Rabbi friend who had me kvetching instead of complaining (and getting all fahklempt, asking after shabat, etc.) without my noticing for MONTHS.

It doesn't all translate, of course, but its a cool trick.

(Hint: Temple is NOT Cathedral. All are welcome in a cathedreal. Temple is more like a Monastery that requires taking of vows to enter, or the closed off section of the Vatican where only priests are allowed.)

[mnn727]

My understanding of being married to a Catholic and having worked for priests for a decade, no priest can perform a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic and would not be allowed to be involved in such.

From personal experience that is 100% incorrect.

[Guest]

My understanding of being married to a Catholic and having worked for priests for a decade, no priest can perform a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic and would not be allowed to be involved in such. You either have a Church sanctioned marriage or you don't, there is no such thing as an alternative or "low key" marriage. Can you provide us with church sources that explain this? The anecdote that supposedly a priest somewhere said that such was true would mean nothing as there are clergy that choose to do their own thing and not neccesarily follow church law or teaching.

This is 100% incorrect according to Catholic Code of Canon Law.

If you are interested in looking it up here are the relevant laws:

Canon Law 1086 - prohibits a marriage between a person baptized in the Catholic church and one who is not, EXCEPT when Canon Law 1125 and 1126 are fulfilled.

Canon Law 1125 - gives the requirements for mixed faith marriages.

Canon Law 1126 - gives authorization to the conference of bishops to establish a method by which the marriage requirements stated in Canon Law 1125 is to be established with the non-Catholic party and his/her Church/denomination/group/etc.

Edited April 29, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

As you've undoubtedly gathered, by now, there are levels of marriage in the LDS Church.

Temple Marriage / Sealed

Civil Marriage (recognized)

Vs Catholic

Catholic Marriage

Civil Marriage in good standing/recognized (what you're doing)

Civil Marriage unrecognized (where you're at)

The LDS Church only does not recognize gay marriage (all other marriages performed outside the temple or unsealed are recognized as valid marriages)... So there will be some confusion amongst your wife's churchy friends w/out a Catholic Background as to what you/she are doing... Because there's no good parallel in the LDS Church.

Minor correction: The LDS Church recognizes any marriage deemed legal in the law of the land that has authority over the marriage as valid unless such marriage goes against the established principles of the Church (e.g. gay marriage).

An illegal marriage in the law of the land that has authority over the marriage is not deemed valid in the LDS Church even if such a marriage would have been valid in some other land (e.g. Filipinos getting remarried after a divorce as divorce is illegal in the Philippines). This is by virtue of the LDS Article of Faith 12.

Edited April 29, 2013 by anatess

[Blocky]

As an active Mormon married to someone who is not I know of one thing that really makes me happy and feel supported and it has minimal impact on my husband.

In the LDS church we usually have a 'calling' which is a job that we are given. It can be meeting with a few other women once a month to check in with them, it could be teaching a sunday school class, leading the womens organization, etc. When my husband is supportive of the small time commitments I give these jobs, it really means a lot to me. I feel like I'm helping my church, learning things (sometimes out of my comfort zone), and growing closer to Heavenly Father because of my service. Sometimes this means I'll be out of the house on a week night, or need a few hours to prepare a lesson. I always appreciate it when my husband supports me in these endeavors.

[Guest]

I forgot to mention the 10% tithe. You get to talk about what that means for your family.

[MichaelAnthony]

I think this is a beautiful question. Please allow me to help as I believe that I have a unique insight. Before you jump to any conclusions or get too nervous I'd ask you to ponder;

Do either one of you want to have a religious wedding ceremony. For example does she want to be sealed in the temple with her eternal husband and conversely do you want a wife that you are married to within the Catholic Church? 

 

Incidentally this article from LDS living might be helpful:

http://www.ldsliving.com/Catholic-Wife-and-Mormon-Husband-Represent-Interfaith-Marriages-Today/s/76549