40% of teens not interested in hard work

[pam]

Study shows teens are more materialistic, less willing to work | ksl.com

Have we as parents made it easier for teens? Have we taught them the value of hard work as we have been counseled by church leaders? Are we bringing up an "entitlement" generation?

[Guest]

Study shows teens are more materialistic, less willing to work | ksl.com

Have we as parents made it easier for teens? Have we taught them the value of hard work as we have been counseled by church leaders? Are we bringing up an "entitlement" generation?

YES. NO. YES.

We just had this discussion not too long ago. It was triggered by my kids' refusal to pull my white hairs out with a hair puller for 10 cents a piece. I noticed a smattering of white hair over my forehead and it sticks out when I put my hair in a bun. I was thinking it was too few to merit dying my hair.

So then a scholastic book fair was going on at my kid's school and so I took both kids there and they had books and some stuff like magic pens and such. I bought the books and my kids wanted the invisible ink pen so I told them they can have it if they pay with their own money. Well, my kids did not have money so I told them they can earn some by pulling my white hair for 10 cents a piece. The pen was $2.99 so that would have been 30 hairs. So we go home, I give the kids the puller, they pulled the first 10 hairs and gave up. Says it's too much work! TWO kids fighting over who gets to pull the next 20 hairs!!!

So, my husband told them to go out to the yard and pull weeds for 2 hours AND pull 20 white hairs out of my head and they'll get the pen. My kids said they don't want the pen anymore and my husband said, okay, we won't get you the pen but you're still going to pull weeds for 2 hours and pull 20 hairs out of my head. I felt sooo bad having kids pulling weeds and crying while doing it... but my husband was insistent about it.

So my husband and I talked that night wondering how we can get this problem solved the "proper" way - how to teach the kids to value work. We came up with no good answers that we can agree on, so hope this thread will bring some good ideas!!!

Edited May 3, 2013 by anatess

[pam]

How many parents give their kids an allowance for cleaning their room, making their beds, take out trash, set the table for dinner?

This is just me personally mind you, but I could never see giving an allowance for things that kids needed to learn to do as a contributing member of the family.

[Guest]

How many parents give their kids an allowance for cleaning their room, making their beds, take out trash, set the table for dinner?

This is just me personally mind you, but I could never see giving an allowance for things that kids needed to learn to do as a contributing member of the family.

We don't.

But I grew up getting an allowance. My mom gives us an allowance every week regardless of chores/accomplishments/behavior/etc. It's just a given. If we misbehave we might not get the allowance that week, but we'll get it the next week added to next week's allowance - so it's not that we lost it, it just got withheld until behavior improvement.

But then my parents did not buy us anything except for school supplies and birthday and christmas gifts. We get everything else using our allowance - like toys and fares for public transportation to go out with friends, etc. It was my parents' idea of a fixed budget. They spend X amount of pesos for every child and we get to figure out what we want to do with that money.

We didn't do this with our kids because my husband grew up differently.

Edited May 3, 2013 by anatess

[Gwen]

I think it's partly a result of having fewer and fewer kids. (I'm sure my opinion is biased because I have a lot of kids. lol) When you have 2 incomes and one kid it changes your life style. There are other things we've been asked to do that will also naturally teach work by the nature of the activity; plant a garden, be involved in service projects, the faith in god, scouting, yw's programs all include service of some kind, family dinners and fhe....

If you only have one kid it's easy to buy the latest gadget. When you have 5 you have to make the hard decisions... you make your kids make hard decisions. You can have A but it means there won't be money for B.... which do you want most? You learn very quickly you can't have it all.... which is a good thing to learn because you shouldn't have it all.

Kids go through a phase where they want to help do things but it's hard to let them. It takes longer, probably won't be done right, takes patience to teach them, etc. It's easier to do it yourself. When you have more kids you need their help. They get to do things. Pulling your own weight is essential. I have found with my kids if I let them help when they are interested they keep helping as they get older.

Some of the rules in our house are if you want to eat you help in some way. Help cook, set the table, something. If you don't help you don't eat. If you eat you help clean up. They learn with every "fun" activity there is work to be done before and after. They want to make a fire and have marshmallows... sounds fun, go gather the wood, find a roasting stick, etc. When we're done you have to clean up the wrappers and mess we created, get to cart water to make sure the fire is properly extinguished, bring in the chairs, etc.

I've started doing less of their laundry, they are old enough. If they complain that what they wanted to wear to school isn't clean they get no sympathy from me. I ask them regularly how they are on school clothes, if they need to bring a load out for washing. If they need help I'll help them but even 5 yr olds can help with laundry in some way. I'm not going to do what you can do for yourself, there is too much to be done for that. (I should post the pic I put on fb of my son helping with the wash. lol)

One yr they wanted to take a big trip so we talked to them and decided that instead of bday gifts we would take the summer and bday money and do a big trip. We went to Nauvoo during the pageants. We spent a couple of weeks, took several days to get there and back making fun stops along the way, camped when we got there, went to all the gift shops. It was a blast. Not the first complaint about not having bday gifts. We did still do cake/ice cream and their choice for dinner on their bday. The next yr they did ask if they would get gifts. lol But they understood the sacrifice they were making, they understood the concept of making a choice and accepted it happily. No regrets, in fact they have come up with a plan that every 5 yrs we should do it again. lol

Kids are capable of understanding. It's the parents that forget how much they can really do and fail to teach them. Yes it means sometimes there are painful learning curves, accidents happen. So far they have all become better for the things we make (and let) them do. Of course none of mine are grown yet so I can't really say how well the plan is working. lol

[Lakumi]

How many parents give their kids an allowance for cleaning their room, making their beds, take out trash, set the table for dinner?

This is just me personally mind you, but I could never see giving an allowance for things that kids needed to learn to do as a contributing member of the family.

my parents only ever gave me money for doing things above and beyond- eg everyone's laundry.

Nothing insane... When I was 9 I wanted a game boy, my parents weren't about to buy me one so my dad got me a job.

I was 9... I'm glad my parents taught me the value of honest work. The things I own, my laptop, my ball jointed dolls, everything, I bought myself (a few exceptions that were gifts)...

And it's a point of pride for me, to know, for example how much I hated my last job, but I still did my best whenever I could. I didn't even realize it until afterwards...

[EarlJibbs]

How many parents give their kids an allowance for cleaning their room, making their beds, take out trash, set the table for dinner?

This is just me personally mind you, but I could never see giving an allowance for things that kids needed to learn to do as a contributing member of the family.

We have tried doing a weekly allowance if the kids did their daily chores. I created a system that paid so much for every chore. They did not have to finish them all, but the amount of money paid out for almost completing the chores, was not even half of what they could get by completing all of them. They loved it at first. But it seemed like it became a chore for us parents just to keep them doing it, and who was going to pay me for being the overlord of chore town?

The only other thing I really pay them for is if they find a nail or a screw on the ground in the garage or the yard and bring it to me, I reward them. There is nothing I hate more than a nail or screw in my car tires or in my kids feet.

[EarlJibbs]

...my husband said, okay, we won't get you the pen but you're still going to pull weeds for 2 hours and pull 20 hairs out of my head. I felt sooo bad having kids pulling weeds and crying while doing it... but my husband was insistent about it.

Now this is something I would do exactly. Not saying it is right or wrong, just that your husband and I are probably best friends at heart.

[Gwen]

Ok so another thought. lol

I think another contributor to the problem is the increased knowledge of learning differences.

When I was diagnosed with my learning disabilities the attitude was "So? You learn differently. Let's figure out how you learn and do what you need to." It was NEVER an excuse to not do my best or fail to keep up with my peers with educational expectations. Just because I did something different didn't make it wrong, bad or less. It was expected that I could and I would.

However, I found that not to be true among the other kids I knew with similar issues. I heard a lot of "I can't because I have...." "I'm not expected to do that." "I can't help it."

With my son being diagnosed Asperger's recently I've joined some groups to learn more. It's a great resource for support but it also floors me the attitude some have. I can't count the times I've seen parents say their child isn't expected to learn to fit into this world because they are different. Guess what? There isn't any other world to be in so you'd better learn to function in it. That doesn't mean they can't be themselves. It doesn't mean they aren't wonderful ppl. It might mean it's a little harder for them but that doesn't excuse them from learning social norms and how to function with everyone else. These parents are fighting a losing battle, their children being the ones who will lose. "My child is going to be who they are and the world better accept them." Great! And when they want to get a job and have to wear a uniform or say the same stupid thing every time someone walks through the door? If they say "oh but that's not 'me'." they will lose the job. Good job mom/dad. Part of our role as parents is to teach our kids how to be themselves, have ethics, morals, etc and still fit into the world. We all make "adjustments" to who we are to fit into certain situations. That's not being fake.

Expect your kids to do things. Don't teach them how to make excuses. When we make excuses they learn they are above work or some kinds of work. When you learn there are no excuses you learn to work, do what it takes, no matter what.

[Lakumi]

Ok so another thought. lol

I think another contributor to the problem is the increased knowledge of learning differences.

When I was diagnosed with my learning disabilities the attitude was "So? You learn differently. Let's figure out how you learn and do what you need to." It was NEVER an excuse to not do my best or fail to keep up with my peers with educational expectations. Just because I did something different didn't make it wrong, bad or less. It was expected that I could and I would.

However, I found that not to be true among the other kids I knew with similar issues. I heard a lot of "I can't because I have...." "I'm not expected to do that." "I can't help it."

With my son being diagnosed Asperger's recently I've joined some groups to learn more. It's a great resource for support but it also floors me the attitude some have. I can't count the times I've seen parents say their child isn't expected to learn to fit into this world because they are different.

from personal experience, being diagnosed with that, you learn that the world won't sympathise for you, just cause some people tell you to "be yourself"

Hey if you ever want any advice on things I've been living with it all these 24 years:lol:

[Wordnerd]

It's really important that parents teach their kids how to work, they won't succeed at anything unless they are willing to work hard. If we don't teach them, we are setting them up for a life of failure. Kids are being babied through school, many boards have no zero policies, meaning that kids can do very little and still pass because they only get graded on what they do, and don't get failed for not completing most of the work.

Every so often we will have a friend who wants us to give their lazy teen a labourer job in the summer so they can learn the value of getting an education. My husband has always obliged, but we have to give the parents the same talk, if your kid is lazy, it's very unlikely that they are capable of even managing to succeed as a labourer, and if they don't work out we will fire them. None of the lazy kids have lasted very long, it's a learning experience for the parents as well as the kids, because most parents aren't willing to believe that their child is so lazy they cannot succeed even at a menial job.

[Gretchen]

So, if mom and/or dad get sick and have to go to the hospital (and deal with medical bills), who's going to give you the money to buy your gizmogadget?

"Oh, I don't worry about stuff like that, my credit card does it all for me."

dies of horror

Kids these days!

Something I find interesting, I went to a job fair a while back with my roommate, and a lot of people older than me where there wearing T-shirts and jeans, or tank-tops and shorts, or even pajama bottoms. I was wearing a skirt and blouse. I'm 20. This is just... (my mother used to tell me if I couldn't say anything nice, to not say anything. I think that is for the best!)

[Lakumi]

So, if mom and/or dad get sick and have to go to the hospital (and deal with medical bills), who's going to give you the money to buy your gizmogadget?

"Oh, I don't worry about stuff like that, my credit card does it all for me."

dies of horror

Kids these days!

Something I find interesting, I went to a job fair a while back with my roommate, and a lot of people older than me where there wearing T-shirts and jeans, or tank-tops and shorts, or even pajama bottoms. I was wearing a skirt and blouse. I'm 20. This is just... (my mother used to tell me if I couldn't say anything nice, to not say anything. I think that is for the best!)

a crime against fashion for starters:lol:

[Gretchen]

Gwen, forgive me for being obnoxious, but I would like to point out that some people with autism have such low mental comprehension that they can't read, or if they can, can't ever get past little kids books. However, when a person has a learning disability that severe, they are generally in a "self contained" class, and are not likely to be found in Mr. Polynomial's Algebra I class.

[Lakumi]

Gwen, forgive me for being obnoxious, but I would like to point out that some people with autism have such low mental comprehension that they can't read, or if they can, can't ever get past little kids books. However, when a person has a learning disability that severe, they are generally in a "self contained" class, and are not likely to be found in Mr. Polynomial's Algebra I class.

yes though there is a difference between autism and aspergers (least when people refear to them, they are talking about two different severaties, as aspergers really is just a mild form of autism the ones that can hold a job-usually-and "act pretty normal" as I have heard said).

I don't think I am normal by any means:lol: I went to school and did horribly, I have had jobes-usually solitary. No friends or anything.

But I think the people she meant were the aspergers kids who, and I have met dozens of them, either don't feel they should have to socialize like other people or want everything handed to them.

Obviously I am no specialist in the field, I just speak from what I have known and seen about it.

Though even they called me odd because how aware I was at what I lacked, which I think made things worse growing up.

[Guest]

Something I find interesting, I went to a job fair a while back with my roommate, and a lot of people older than me where there wearing T-shirts and jeans, or tank-tops and shorts, or even pajama bottoms. I was wearing a skirt and blouse. I'm 20. This is just... (my mother used to tell me if I couldn't say anything nice, to not say anything. I think that is for the best!)

This is a Steve Jobs thing. Before Steve Jobs and Bill Gates turned the computer world upside down, IBM was the big deal. IBM programmers had this culture of going to work in their well-pressed suits, spend 5 minutes doing real work, and get paid a jillion bucks.

This was the big deal in the 80's when IBM'ers in their stuffy suits would go and interview for a job at Apple, Steve Jobs would show up in his t-shirt and dirty jeans and bare feet and ask the IBM'er guy what he can contribute to Apple making them squirm. So, it became a thing with programmers that wearing a suit is a sign of being stuck in the old world of image-without-substance.

[Gretchen]

Lakumi, you have no idea. while in high school, I saw girls wearing shorts so short, half their tush was hanging out. What does the dress code say about stuff like that?

We have a dress code? Are you sure about that?

:deep breath: going back to the technology thing (less to rant about)

[Lakumi]

Lakumi, you have no idea. while in high school, I saw girls wearing shorts so short, half their tush was hanging out. What does the dress code say about stuff like that?

We have a dress code? Are you sure about that?

:deep breath: going back to the technology thing (less to rant about)

oh I was in high school myself not too long ago, in adult high school, it was worse!

There wasn't a dress code, so these adults wore whatever they wanted.

High school attire was the same when I was there too, I'm only 24...not that old:lol:

[Gretchen]

Yes, it is true that autism and Asperger's are different conditions, although they have very strong similarity. It is also true that autism is a spectrum disorder, meaning that you could have a kid with a mild, "high functioning" diagnosis, and another with a severe, "low functioning" diagnosis.

For the most part, having a disability (dyslexia, for example) is not an excuse for not trying. I just wanted to point out that sometimes it just isn't possible to teach them.

[Lakumi]

Yes, it is true that autism and Asperger's are different conditions, although they have very strong similarity. It is also true that autism is a spectrum disorder, meaning that you could have a kid with a mild, "high functioning" diagnosis, and another with a severe, "low functioning" diagnosis.

For the most part, having a disability (dyslexia, for example) is not an excuse for not trying. I just wanted to point out that sometimes it just isn't possible to teach them.

very true, it's something I could gab on about for hours, but no one has that kind of time:lol:

[Gwen]

If someone has a disability that limits how far the can progress (IQ, ability to read, etc) then it's totally understandable to accept their best. The problem is so many accept less because some dr said so and don't push themselves or their kids.

I've worked with a girl whose parents were told she would NEVER read due to her disability. Guess what? Not only did this girl learn to read but by the time she graduated high school with all A's she didn't need a tutor because she had learned her accommodations so well. Not accommodations others did for her but the work she did for herself because "I can't" wasn't ever accepted. It was always "you can, if you do it this way".

I know ppl with autism whose parents told when they were little that they were too far down the spectrum and would never be independant. Guess what? mom and dad didn't accept that. They taught everything the child would learn. With help they are now adults (though still living at home) who dress themselves, do chores, hold down a simple job, drive, cook, etc. Things the dr said would never happen.

My point wasn't that there aren't limits to ppl. We all have limits in something. It's don't accept excuses. Find the BEST they can be and achieve that. My son, due to learning disabilities, worked his butt off for a D in reading. I knew how hard he worked and I celebrated that D with the same energy I celebrated A's. It's not about A's or D's, it's about was it his best? Were there no excuses?

[BadWolf]

How many parents give their kids an allowance for cleaning their room, making their beds, take out trash, set the table for dinner?

This is just me personally mind you, but I could never see giving an allowance for things that kids needed to learn to do as a contributing member of the family.

I do allowance&chores a little differently around here:

1) The underlying principle is twofold:

- To create a systematic pattern of behavior / aka balance (vital in an ADHD household)

- to teach real money management

2) The end goal is that by 14.5 the kids are responsible for ALL financial matters pertaining to them, so that they have a couple years of "working with a net" before going off to school/military/work/what have you never having learned to manage their money AND also be adept at all areas of household management (from daily cooking/cleaning, to repairs, calling in pros, etc.

3) Looking at the end goal I start when kids are toddlers in having them help with EVERYTHING (if an 18mo old can help cook/clean, then so can everyone else!), and then I start adding in (serious) money at about age 4 (or whenever their math skills & sequential reasoning kick in. I increase both allowance & responsibility every year on their half birthday.

((This doesn't actually mean any increase in my budget, as Id be spending the money on them in any event.))

I start with a base level (for accomplishing all the tasks), and then have a bonus for accomplishing the tasks with good attitude.

END EX) 14.5yo

Base = $200 per week

Bonus = $50 per week

Responsibilities

- Tithing

- Portion of rent/utilities (around here that $500 a month w/roommate, so we echo that, and then I **SECRETLY!!!!** Stash half that in a savings acct for them)

- Portion of grocery bill

- All educational costs

- All sport & extra curricular costs

- All clothing

- All entertainment

- All personal expenses (from haircuts to subscriptions)

An in between look at my 10yo & 5yo:

Ex) 10yo

base allowance = $50 per week.

Bonus of $10.

$ Responsibility =

- Tithing

- Cell phone bill

- 1 meal per week (he plans, shops/pays, & cooks... Last week was chicken Marsala)

- Sports fees (but not uniforms, gear. Thats next year)

- Birthday & Christmas gifts

- Xbox live membership

- Any subscriptions he wants to buy

- Books & music

Ex) 5yo

Base = $7 per week

Bonus = $3 per week

Responsibility = Tithing & $10 per month cell phone bill (just the line)

Chore lists are relatively unchanged from 5yo. Its just that I might help a 5yo, a 10yo might help me (or do it on their own).

Daily =

- Up

- Hygiene & dress

- breakfast & dishes (his)

- make bed & clean room (2 "things" left out.... Be they Lego creations or laundry)

- school

- play

- help w dinner (cooking & cleanup)

- toilet (bowl & floor)

WEEKLY

- Field Day

- Wash & put away his clothes

- Wash sheets & remake bed

- Help w/ projects

- Pick a Chore x3 (floor washing, lawn, whatever)

_____________________

Apx...

1000... 800+ poof to responsibilities

300... 200+ poof to responsibilities

50... 15 poof to responsibilities

It'll make their first paycheck a great deal less exciting.

Which is exactly the point.

[BadWolf]

ETA... I should add... There are times when there's NO money (job loss, divorce, etc.).

The kids are uniformly AWESOME about all allowances (mine, too!) going on hold, and figuring out how to get by/stretch a dollar to make $10.

Schtuff happens.

Which is also a good lesson.

[Lakumi]

jeez when I was 10 I think I got... 5 dollars a week? (in the off season, in the summer I had a "jr.cleaner job", had real cheques and everything as I mentioned before...)

there were no cell phones or computers, my parents didn't believe in video games (they didn't want me wasting my childhood away-they told me)

sports were "here's some hockey sticks and a tennis ball go play in the tennis court" the sticks you'd always buy at garage sales and cut them down... I remember one summer getting some goalie equipment-the helmet was most expensive so I never bought one.

I never cooked for my family growing up, nor do I now

basically because I have one weird, weird taste in food and they are quite picky eaters... I don't enjoy cooking much, unless I am alone, they enjoy it a lot...

what's tithing?

[Dravin]

what's tithing?

Tithing