Daughter considering mission


Martin67
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I have a daughter who is a sophomore in high school, who is considering going on a mission. I am not a member but my wife is. I am against it, because I want my daughter to be self sufficient, and it is important to me that she finish college and learn a skill she can support herself with. With the strong mormon convictions against premarital sex, and strong focus on family, I am afraid any delays on her completing her education could result in her getting married too young and being tide down with children before she has completed her education. Then she would end up dropping out of school, making her dependent on her husband.

My wife thinks that there are a lot of non spiritual opportunities for growth my daughter would get from going on a mission. So I would like to hear from the women that have gone on missions. What are the ways you benefitted from going on a mission (non-spiritual ones), and why would you recommend or not recommend doing it. How did the experience help you grow as a person?

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I served a mission back in 1994. There are many great social skills I developed because of it. If I had not served a mission I know I would not have developed these skills because I was introverted before I went. I use these skills all the time in my present employment. Serving has also helped me to have more empathy for others.

I think you will see your daughter develop many positive characteristics from serving a mission.

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Thank you for the responses Dravin and Still_small_voice.

My wife feels that my daughter doesn't really know what she wants to do with her life (career), and that the mission would allow her to meet different people from different backgrounds, which would help her figure things out. I feel like college would accomplish this same thing. She also feels that she would get to see families struggling financially, and this would help my daughter to understand the value an education can have in providing financial stability.

This is something that I agree with my wife on. We are an upper middle class family, and most of my daughter's peers are even more affluent. While my daughter is by no means spoiled, I feel like she has no concept of having to do without because your family can't afford it. I feel like this experience helped shaped me into the person I am. I knew that if I wanted something, including an education, I was going to have to work for it myself. Along these lines I feel like if she wants to go on a mission, she can work to pay for it herself. If she feels so strongly that it is a worthwhile goal, she should do what it takes to accomplish it. I am wondering how those of you who went on missions paid for it?

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I have a daughter who is a sophomore in high school, who is considering going on a mission. I am not a member but my wife is. I am against it, because I want my daughter to be self sufficient, and it is important to me that she finish college and learn a skill she can support herself with. With the strong mormon convictions against premarital sex, and strong focus on family, I am afraid any delays on her completing her education could result in her getting married too young and being tide down with children before she has completed her education. Then she would end up dropping out of school, making her dependent on her husband.

My wife thinks that there are a lot of non spiritual opportunities for growth my daughter would get from going on a mission. So I would like to hear from the women that have gone on missions. What are the ways you benefitted from going on a mission (non-spiritual ones), and why would you recommend or not recommend doing it. How did the experience help you grow as a person?

Just to address one of your fears...

I was not LDS.

I joined the military out of highschool.

I got married /had my son at 22

I started college when my son was 2 months old.

I REALLY wish people thought babies & school weren't mutually exclusive. It does a great disservice to so many!!!

Full time work w baby = 50+ hours of childcare per week

Vs.

College w baby =

- 10+ hours of childcare per week

- Childcare subsidies by the university

- Student Family Housing

- Flexible schedule (can email professor & stay home to deal with not just illness, but tantrums, special events, etc.)

- Flexible schedule (most work done at home, and can be done during naps & after bedtime)

- Great community (not only are there Married Family Student groups THROUGH the church, but also your fellow secular students -that you share housing with-, your professors with young families oft include undergrad parents with their grad student functions = amaaaaazing networking, etc.)

- et cetera. And there are a LOT of perks & bonuses in this et cetera list.

Being a Full time student when my son was little was the BEST of "both worlds". I got to be a full time stay at home mom, while also working (keeping my mind active & engaged, bringing in over 25k in aid, not counting childcare & housing subsidies, nor 2k per month saved in not needing 50 hours of childcare per week). All while advancing my income potential & degree path.

Best of both worlds.

If Id known what an amaaaaazing fit raising a young family while being in college is, I would have planned to do it that way, instead of just lucking into it.

_____

To be clear, Im not saying that if your daughter goes on Mission, she'll be married & have a baby before getting her degrees. LOL, I wasn't even a member when I did! What I am saying is that baby + college not only are not mutually exclusive... I don't think there's a better job out there for new parents. I realize not everyone can be lucky enough to have the timing work out so that they're starting their families while in school, though.

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Thank you for the response Badwolf. I think the picture you paint of going to college and starting a family simultaneously is excessively rosey. I was in graduate school when we had our daughter, and it was both of us working full time and me going to school full time, certainly not the situation you had. It can be done, but it is NOT the optimal situation.

It also digresses from what I was looking for when I started this thread. I know that going on a mission doesn't necessarily preclude my daughter from also finishing college. What I am hoping to learn is how going on a mission benefitted or did not benefit those who went on them (women). I think that this is the largest LDS forum on the internet (it was the first choice that came up when I did a web search), so I am betting that there are lots of sister missionaries with tales to tell of their experience being missionaries. Thanks in advance for your responses.

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Personally I think it might be difficult to answer that question of the OP at this time. Those woman that have been on missions went when they reached the age of 21 and had finished some school etc. Now woman can go at the age of 19 and come back when they are not quite 21. That puts them having finishing a mission before anyone that has gone even left.

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Thank you for the response Badwolf. I think the picture you paint of going to college and starting a family simultaneously is excessively rosey. I was in graduate school when we had our daughter, and it was both of us working full time and me going to school full time, certainly not the situation you had. It can be done, but it is NOT the optimal situation.

It also digresses from what I was looking for when I started this thread. I know that going on a mission doesn't necessarily preclude my daughter from also finishing college. What I am hoping to learn is how going on a mission benefitted or did not benefit those who went on them (women). I think that this is the largest LDS forum on the internet (it was the first choice that came up when I did a web search), so I am betting that there are lots of sister missionaries with tales to tell of their experience being missionaries. Thanks in advance for your responses.

< laughing >

Yes.

Gradschool + Fulltime work + baby = exceptionally different than

Undergrad + baby OR

Full time work + baby

((Or heck, even undergrad + Fulltime work + baby))

I was talking about STARTING school (or at least being an undergrad, instead of returning to work. Not working Fulltime (or even part time), much less adding working on one's masters or doctorate. A huge number of women ARE completely dependent on their husbands because they have NO education. Believing that they cannot even start until the kids are either grown, or the youngest in school full time. So the best they can manage are min wage jobs, that they can't start until their youngest is in school full time (daycare costs more than they'd make). So their lives are "on hold" for a solid 5-15 years "for" their families.

Which, I was given to understand was your major fear in your daughter going on mission?

That she'd get married / have children / not go to school / be entirely dependent on her husband. Whose income potential, of course, would be continuing to rise for those 5-15 years, while hers stayed stagnant & static.

I may not be able to give you HappyMissionStory (I hope lots do, though! i love listening to them in Relief Society) to help allay your fears, but as far as getting ones education vs working (done both) with wee ones... I can say hands down that

1) being in school with small children is infinitely easier than working full time with small children.

2) Your fear of her being unable to go to school while raising a family is only one choice. She may make that choice, and it may be the most commonly held choice, but its far from her only option. She could do as I did, or even as you did (I can't wrap my head around your choice, easily, though. I had 10 hours a week JUST being an undergrad. You had probably double that PLUS working full time.). Or she could do one of several other things (including the common

- 20s= school & gradschool & casual dating,

- 30s = career & serious dating,

- 40's = marriage & starting family. Which is what most of my peers outside the church do. Back in Seattle, I have a good friend in Hosp Admin. At least in that city roughly 2/3s of first time moms are in their 40s. Which follows the same trending I see in professional women. Although I don't know if that's micro/macro/cohort/etc.).

Of course, being in school with small children is harder than being in school single & childless, just not as hard as working full time with small children!

If I misunderstand your fear... Not that she'd not go to school (which I had hoped to help allay), but that she'd have to work as hard as you did, I apologize.

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You have neatly summarized most of my fears badwolf. As school has started to get more difficult, my daughter has complained that it was too hard. Around the same time she also said maybe she would just be a stay at home mom and not worry about college. She has also said she could just marry a nice mormon boy going to med school who would take care of her. When I told her she didn't want to be dependent on somebody like that, what if he divorced you, she told me that was not a worry because Mormon's have such a low divorce rate.

Now before all the stay at home mom's get upset, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. What I don't want is for my daughter to be dependent on someone else. If the marriage goes bad, she should be able to support herself. I don't want her to ever end up being "trapped" in a bad relationship because she is financially dependent on someone.

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I am a student in school right now. My wife is just finishing her bachelors. We have a five year old son. We made the decision to have a child pretty carefully, and my wife will graduate in a few months. It is harder to have a child during school than not, but, frankly, that was true of getting married, too. I spent more time studying before I got married. But I won't put my life on hold just for school.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to stay home with kids. But it is really sad if that becomes an excuse for not finishing school. Education has an intrinsic value that contributes to one's betterment regardless of one's marital or employment status. And, frankly, the world can be harsh, and everyone needs to be able to take care of themselves.

I think Mormons still have a lower divorce rate than America in general. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There are still too many sad stories.

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(LDS SAHM chiming in, who has not been on a mission)

I agree with you Martain. Getting a college degree in a field that is employable was the best thing I ever did for myself. However if your daughter is wishy washy on her college plans/career choice a mission might be an okay plan vs spinning her wheels switching majors multiple times.

Raising children and using your education is tricky. I worked in my career for four years and was making a salary close to many of the bread winners in our neighborhood. However once I had my second child it pretty much sealed my decision to be a SAHM. The cost of putting two young children into daycare, taxes and a healthy commute ate too much into my take home pay to make it worth it working outside the home.

I think you might have better leverage if you encourage her to go on a mission after her junior year in college, or at age 21 which used to be the norm. Most women I knew that were 3/4ths of the way done with their education were able to finish up when they got back from a mission whether there were children in the mix or not.

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The number 1 thing you gain from going on a mission is INDEPENDENCE and DISCIPLINE.

I have 2 nephews now who went on a 2-week European tour without their parents at age 12. The difference in maturity between when they left and when they came home is palpable. And that's for only 2 weeks at age 12.

Becoming completely independent at age 19 for a young woman is a great experience, especially when having to go with a lot less material means and having to learn to live with different companions and having to report to higher-ups on a daily work progress.

Yes, your daughter can gain this life experience by just throwing your daughter out into the world untethered and wait if she sinks or swims. But, the comparative safety net provided by the Church while being completely untethered to her family is a much better option. This is not something they teach you in college.

Edited by anatess
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You have neatly summarized most of my fears badwolf. As school has started to get more difficult, my daughter has complained that it was too hard. Around the same time she also said maybe she would just be a stay at home mom and not worry about college. She has also said she could just marry a nice mormon boy going to med school who would take care of her. When I told her she didn't want to be dependent on somebody like that, what if he divorced you, she told me that was not a worry because Mormon's have such a low divorce rate.

Now before all the stay at home mom's get upset, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. What I don't want is for my daughter to be dependent on someone else. If the marriage goes bad, she should be able to support herself. I don't want her to ever end up being "trapped" in a bad relationship because she is financially dependent on someone.

I picked out the red flags I see and none of it has to do with mission vs education. It sounds like she needs to learn to work.

School is hard.

There is no such thing as "just" a stay at home mom... like that will be easy? Let me tell ya if she wants to learn what "stay at home mom" means she can come spend the summer with me. I promise you she'll get an education she can't get at school. lol It's hard. It's work. Being a stay at home mom is not the easy way out.

"Just" get married? Marriage is work. And sometimes it's hard. Most of the ppl I was in the youth program with have been divorced or near it and had to fight for the marriage they have. Marriage is not the easy way out.

To be honest being in school living "on my own" was the easiest I've ever had it. (I say "on my own" because some might debate if I was ever "on my own" due to the support I did receive from my parents.) I have a sister who went to school and lived on her own and she expressed fears of getting married because she had become so comfortable in having things "her way" for so long. She would say that it was an easier time than things are now being married and a stay at home mom. Now is when she is really working and life gets really hard. Not that it's not worth it but that it's hard work.

I say let her go on a mission. Not because I'm biased toward missions, I don't care it's her decision. lol But, having never been on a mission, as I understand it a mission will teach her the things she needs right now. She will learn to work, do things that are hard, what it's like to live with someone, etc. As someone pointed out it will also give her a chance to learn independence and who she is with a relative safety net. It's a lot of money and sometimes a waste of time to switch majors and what not while you "figure out what to do with life". A mission would buy that time to figure out who she is and what she wants to do without wasting a lot of time and money. Sounds like it would be good for her.

Oh the offer to spend some time with me is always open as well. lol

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what if he divorced you,

That's a sad thing to say to your daughter, by the way.

Instead, you should be teaching your daughter that Divorce Is Not An Option and to look for somebody who believes the same way. When this is what you teach your daughter, you will see that the discussion changes from "how to be independent so that I can survive a divorce" to "how to find that helpmeet - that one person who I can depend on, and who can depend on me to create an eternal family with". Hence, education ceases to be a selfish endeavor and becomes something that she wants to achieve so she can help her husband meet the needs of the family. And as a bonus, your daughter will learn to choose her helpmeet very carefully and very wisely... because, it's a once-in-a-lifetime decision.

Edited by anatess
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Thank you for the responses Dravin and Still_small_voice.

My wife feels that my daughter doesn't really know what she wants to do with her life (career), and that the mission would allow her to meet different people from different backgrounds, which would help her figure things out. I feel like college would accomplish this same thing. She also feels that she would get to see families struggling financially, and this would help my daughter to understand the value an education can have in providing financial stability.

This is something that I agree with my wife on. We are an upper middle class family, and most of my daughter's peers are even more affluent. While my daughter is by no means spoiled, I feel like she has no concept of having to do without because your family can't afford it. I feel like this experience helped shaped me into the person I am. I knew that if I wanted something, including an education, I was going to have to work for it myself. Along these lines I feel like if she wants to go on a mission, she can work to pay for it herself. If she feels so strongly that it is a worthwhile goal, she should do what it takes to accomplish it. I am wondering how those of you who went on missions paid for it?

FWIW: Both of my sisters served LDS missions, and I think their experiences were much like what your wife describes. One was in the former Communist bloc; the other in Latin America. They both learned a lot about sacrifice, a lot about managing money, a lot about dealing with people, and got a stark education about "the real world". I don't think you get that in college--not really. Other than the booze and sex, modern academia is really a remarkably sheltered environment.

As for the cost of the mission: I paid about 1/3 of mine, and my siblings did similarly. It's a hard balance to strike--I think you value your mission more, and get more out of it, when you're paying for it; but--as you well understand--the more money a kid throws into his or her mission, the less money (s)he has for academia; and the more the kid has to allocate his/her time into working rather than studying.

And look at it this way: How many people do you know (like Viannqueen mentioned) who finish college at 22 and then, by the time they're 26, decide they want to do something completely different? With all due respect to your daughter, it sounds like she doesn't know what she wants to do when she grows up yet. So over the next eighteen months, would you rather burn through $10K or more in school tuition? Or some portion of the $7200 cost of a mission as life tuition?

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That's a sad thing to say to your daughter, by the way.

Instead, you should be teaching your daughter that Divorce Is Not An Option and to look for somebody who believes the same way. When this is what you teach your daughter, you will see that the discussion changes from "how to be independent so that I can survive a divorce" to "how to find that helpmeet - that one person who I can depend on, and who can depend on me to create an eternal family with". Hence, education ceases to be a selfish endeavor and becomes something that she wants to achieve so she can help her husband meet the needs of the family. And as a bonus, your daughter will learn to choose her helpmeet very carefully and very wisely... because, it's a once-in-a-lifetime decision.

I do not agree. One of our most important jobs as parents is to prepare our children for living independently in the REAL world. Because many times they don't have the experience to know better, we sometimes have to give them a dose of reality. While we can certainly teach them to aspire for more than the norm, sometimes things don't work out in ways that are ideal. Trying to prepare them for that is not being pessimistic, it's being realistic. I do think in today's society people don't have realistic expectations of marriage, and they far too often give up on their marriages too easily. They are not willing to put the work in required to make a relationship successful. However in some cases people are better off not being together. I'm sure these forums are rife with examples of such.
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Thanks for the reply just a guy, I agree with much of what you've said. We've decided that if my daughter wants to go on a mission we will support her, as long as she saves up for half of the cost. We can adjust this amount if necessary, but I think it is important that she helps contribute a significant amount. If it is important to her she will put the work in to get there. We will see how things go over the next few years, but as things stand now I think my daughter can benefit greatly from some of the life lessons she would learn on a mission.

Edited by Martin67
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I do not agree. One of our most important jobs as parents is to prepare our children for living independently in the REAL world. Because many times they don't have the experience to know better, we sometimes have to give them a dose of reality. While we can certainly teach them to aspire for more than the norm, sometimes things don't work out in ways that are ideal. Trying to prepare them for that is not being pessimistic, it's being realistic. I do think in today's society people don't have realistic expectations of marriage, and they far too often give up on their marriages too easily. They are not willing to put the work in required to make a relationship successful. However in some cases people are better off not being together. I'm sure these forums are rife with examples of such.

I grew up in the Philippines where divorce is illegal. There is NOTHING unrealistic about that. People give up on marriages because they can.

Edited by anatess
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When you try and apply absolutes to human interactions, then you have to remove logic and common sense from your deliberations. By your line of reasoning, people that are married to drug addicts, serial adulterers, physical abusers, and criminals should just "stick it out, and make it work". Your advice reminds me of a story a coworker told me of when she was younger. She was a new bride when her husband physically abused her for the first time and she ran home to her mother's house seeking shelter. The mother kicked her out, said that she had married the guy and it was her job to make it work. Needless to say the obvious transpired, and her husband kept beating her until she finally left him. She divorced him not only because she "could", but because it was the right thing to do. I guess she wouldn't have that option in the Phillippines, don't think you'd find many Americans who would have thought that was the best option for her.

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When you try and apply absolutes to human interactions, then you have to remove logic and common sense from your deliberations. By your line of reasoning, people that are married to drug addicts, serial adulterers, physical abusers, and criminals should just "stick it out, and make it work". Your advice reminds me of a story a coworker told me of when she was younger. She was a new bride when her husband physically abused her for the first time and she ran home to her mother's house seeking shelter. The mother kicked her out, said that she had married the guy and it was her job to make it work. Needless to say the obvious transpired, and her husband kept beating her until she finally left him. She divorced him not only because she "could", but because it was the right thing to do. I guess she wouldn't have that option in the Phillippines, don't think you'd find many Americans who would have thought that was the best option for her.

Divorce being illegal does not mean you can't separate. It merely means you can't get re-married. You made the covenant to be the helpmeet of the person you FREELY CHOSE to marry. It's not a temporary arrangement. If you did not know that your husband is a drug addict before you got married, something was wrong with the engagement. If your husband developed into a drug addict while you were married, something wrong happened in the marriage - you can't just become a drug addict overnight. If you got duped or forced into marrying a drug addict, the marriage was not valid and may be anulled.

In any case, unless annulled, it doesn't change the fact that now you are married to a drug addict. Your role as a helpmeet is to help your spouse become a better person and be closer to God - this means helping the spouse overcome the addiction. It is part of your vow of service in the marital covenant. If the addiction is abusive to the spouse and the children, you can legally separate to provide safety for the family. Legal separation provides financial/material protection by separating the spouses' finances/property as well as physical protection - zero access to the family if necessary. But it doesn't remove the covenant of being a helpmeet to the spouse you freely chose to marry. So you can't replace the spouse with another like yesterday's ill-fitting shoes.

So, you might say, well, I guess that puts the good spouse into a lifetime of misery! If you think that, then you never really did understand what Jesus Christ means by LOVE. Love is joy. But, it is not "what I get out of it". Love flows outwards. Jesus Christ taught us that loving one another means kneeling and washing their feet. Love is service. Service is joy. Being a helpmeet by serving the spouse to overcome the addiction is the source of joy... not what you got out of it. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, again, he showed us love. He did not say, "Father forgive them... but only those who loved me back.".

That is MARRIAGE. For better or worse. For sicker or poorer. In sickness and in health. And when sealed by Priesthood Authority, not only until death do you part, but through life after death.

So... choose wisely.

Edited by anatess
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