Sealing of my family.


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Hello,

I am a new member to the Church, joined in Sept of last year when I married a mormon. I really love the my wife and the church but I am really lost we are about to expect our first child in July very happy time. Yet the other day I was informed by my bishop that because my wife was married in the temple before with her ex husband and they have not gotten a temple divorce yet that when my child is born he will not be able to be sealed to me because they are still sealed. Since finding out that information we have started the process but everyone keeps telling me that it wont happen before the baby comes so when we get sealed I will not be able to be sealed to my child. I am very unhappy with this. It is unacceptable to me regardless of how everyone says it will be worked out in heaven I am worried about here and now. This is a huge deal for me I honestly don't know what to do. Is there anyone I can talk to to speed this process up or anything at all. Because I am not even remotely ok with my son being sealed to her ex because of some stupid paperwork. Since this new has been brought to my attention I have lost sleep and my testimony has been really really strained. My wife does not understand because she grew up in the church and the child will still be sealed to her. So I do not know who else to turn too. :(:mad:

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Becausee She Will not Have Her Temple.Divorce before The Baby Comes

But when the divorce *is* final you can go to the Temple to be sealed to your child.

Also, keep in mind that this whole process is set up the way it is to maintain order (as best as possible) in the (earthly, man-operated) Church. "His House is a House of order" etc. So while things may not be going according to your preferred timetable, you can trust that Heavenly Father knows good and well who this child belongs to. :)

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Hello,

I am a new member to the Church, joined in Sept of last year when I married a mormon. I really love the my wife and the church but I am really lost we are about to expect our first child in July very happy time. Yet the other day I was informed by my bishop that because my wife was married in the temple before with her ex husband and they have not gotten a temple divorce yet that when my child is born he will not be able to be sealed to me because they are still sealed. Since finding out that information we have started the process but everyone keeps telling me that it wont happen before the baby comes so when we get sealed I will not be able to be sealed to my child. I am very unhappy with this. It is unacceptable to me regardless of how everyone says it will be worked out in heaven I am worried about here and now. This is a huge deal for me I honestly don't know what to do. Is there anyone I can talk to to speed this process up or anything at all. Because I am not even remotely ok with my son being sealed to her ex because of some stupid paperwork. Since this new has been brought to my attention I have lost sleep and my testimony has been really really strained. My wife does not understand because she grew up in the church and the child will still be sealed to her. So I do not know who else to turn too. :(:mad:

Did you not think to find out these things before you got married? It,s not fair to be angry at the bishop or the church for your failure to inform yourself about these things.

There is no such thing as a "temple divorce". I think it would be helpful to go back to the bishop and clarify things and to better understand the order of things.

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Carrollkn,

I realize, as a convert, that this appears disturbing to your heart and mind. Within the Church Handbook of Instruction, our prophets have provided us with guidance from the Lord, and according to the spirit within them.

Within this instruction we are informed that a child who is born to a woman who has been sealed, the child will be born already under the covenant; thus, the child need not be sealed again to their biological father. There is nothing within the handbook which specifies the child is sealed to the wife's Ex, the handbook maintains that the child is already born within the covenant and is already a partaker of the covenants given to us once born.

I am sorry you are unhappy with this and I can empathize with your frustration; however, your son will not be sealed to your wife's Ex because of "some stupid paperwork." Your child will be your child, here and now, and in the eternities if you are faithful to the covenants agreed upon in the temple.

I would, however, argue your wife perfectly understands that our Father in heaven is perfectly just and fair, and she appears not to not be worried because she knows you are the father of her child, and that you two will be sealed, and this child will be your child, here and now, as well as in the eternities if you continue to be faithful to your covenants.

Best wishes dear brother.

Edited by Anddenex
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When my husband and I were sealed, all our children, that had been born at that time, were sealed to us. Four. All were born before the previous marriage sealing was dissolved, which is commonly referred to as a temple divorce.

It is true however that children are sealed to parents. If the sealing between parents are broken they are not unsealed to parents but they are not sealed to parents who are not sealed. According to Addenex, the sealing of children to the actual parents after previous sealing/s of parent/s is dissolved does not NEED to be done again. If so that has changed since my kids were sealed to my husband and me.

You are best served to go talk to your bishop and he can give you the information that applies to you and your situation.

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Annewandering, were you previously sealed? Children would only need to be sealed to parents if the woman had not previously been sealed, had her sealing cancelled, or excommunicated. If she was sealed to a previous spouse, and the sealing was not cancelled prior to having a child with the next spouse, the child would be considered born in the covenant, and it would not be necessary to have the child sealed to the mother and her subsequent husband.

This is currently the issue with Jennarator and her husband with their baby they just had. She was hoping to have her sealing cancelled to her prior husband before the baby was born, but it didn't happen.

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Carrolllkn,

Wow that definitely can make you question some of the doctrines of the church. It does not make sense that a child would be sealed to someone other than his biological father.

The blessings of the sealing covenant are more than just being together in the eternities as a family. They are necessary ordinances in order to reach the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. When your child is born, he will receive those blessings from the sealing between your wife and her ex. Think of it like a baptism (which is also an ordinance). If you are baptized by someone and then the person who baptized you falls away from the church, it does not impact the blessing you receive from the baptismal covenant in any way. The same is true with the ordinance of being sealed to one's parents. Your child will be able to receive the blessings from the sealing covenant (i.e. able to achieve the highest degree of celestial glory). Being sealed does not mean that you are doomed to spend the rest of your life with that person. As you live righteously you WILL be with your child in the eternities. What you do as his father on earth will be crucial to his development and to his progression to reach the celestial kingdom as well.

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I am in the same boat. I have a child with my new husband and we have a baby. I am still sealed to my ex. I was concerned for some time about it. I know that child is OURS. WWhen I get sealed to my new husband, that child will be really be dsealed to us. No need to take him to the temple. He was born with the blessings of being sealed. It is hard to understand, but it IS ok.

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Carrollkn,

I realize, as a convert, that this appears disturbing to your heart and mind. Within the Church Handbook of Instruction, our prophets have provided us with guidance from the Lord, and according to the spirit within them.

Within this instruction we are informed that a child who is born to a woman who has been sealed, the child will be born already under the covenant; thus, the child need not be sealed again to their biological father. There is nothing within the handbook which specifies the child is sealed to the wife's Ex, the handbook maintains that the child is already born within the covenant and is already a partaker of the covenants given to us once born.

I'm not sure that I agree with your reading of the CHI. Section 3.6.2 of Book 1 states quite clearly that in the case of a woman who is sealed, civilly divorced (but without sealing cancelled), and later bears more children, the children will be born in the covenant of the first marriage. So in Carrollkn's situations, his child is in fact going to be born in the sealing covenant of his wife and her ex-husband.

This is massively frustrating--even to me, who has no skin in this game. I consider it one of the failings of the administrative arm of the Church.

Sadly, it could easily be removed by a little administrative hand waving, like "children born to into a covenant with a parent's former spouse may be sealed to their biological parents when those parents are sealed." Boom, done.

To Carrollkn I would say that I don't really believe that the administrative policies of the Church are a good representation of the divine order of things. I think a lot of these policies are the attempts of well meaning people trying to write a coherent administrative code that mirrors eternal principles. As you can imagine, that isn't easy to do and often leaves gaping holes for those of us that don't fit the idealized models. I really don't have any words of comfort or wisdom or insight. Your situation stinks and you have my sympathy. I wish it weren't like this.

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I'm not sure that I agree with your reading of the CHI. Section 3.6.2 of Book 1 states quite clearly that in the case of a woman who is sealed, civilly divorced (but without sealing cancelled), and later bears more children, the children will be born in the covenant of the first marriage. So in Carrollkn's situations, his child is in fact going to be born in the sealing covenant of his wife and her ex-husband.

Where did I mention the child wasn't born within the "sealing covenant" of the wife's previous marriage?

I simply stated the child is not his (the Ex husbands), the child is not sealed to him. The child is his (the current husband's) "here and now" and will be his in the eternities if he faithfully abides by the covenants of the temple.

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Where did I mention the child wasn't born within the "sealing covenant" of the wife's previous marriage?

I simply stated the child is not his (the Ex husbands), the child is not sealed to him. The child is his (the current husband's) "here and now" and will be his in the eternities if he faithfully abides by the covenants of the temple.

I don't think you can separate the two in the bolded part. Consider that when we seal children to their parents we do so as if they had been born in that covenant. It would seem that being born in a covenant makes you sealed to the husband and wife in that covenant. So, if the ex and the wife are still sealed, any children born in that covenant are sealed to the ex and the wife.

Thus, while the child is not the ex-husband's, the child is in fact sealed to the ex-husband. The very fact that the CHI comments on the the oddity of this relationship should confirm its actuality.

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I don't think you can separate the two in the bolded part. Consider that when we seal children to their parents we do so as if they had been born in that covenant. It would seem that being born in a covenant makes you sealed to the husband and wife in that covenant. So, if the ex and the wife are still sealed, any children born in that covenant are sealed to the ex and the wife.

Thus, while the child is not the ex-husband's, the child is in fact sealed to the ex-husband. The very fact that the CHI comments on the the oddity of this relationship should confirm its actuality.

Understood, however, I believe you are missing a vital point within the handbook of instructions. The idea presented in the handbook is clear that being born in the covenant entitles the child to an "eternal parentage" and the handbook is specific and clear that it does not mention the previous spouse as the "eternal parent." The handbook is clear that the child is born within the covenant, not that the child is sealed to the Ex.

Since the Ex, has broken the covenant, and the wife is remarried, it is obvious the child is the biological father's and will be his "here and now" as well as in the eternities as the biological father remains faithful to the covenants he will make in the temple.

EDIT: At least to me.

Edited by Anddenex
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Understood, however, I believe you are missing a vital point within the handbook of instructions. The idea presented in the handbook is clear that being born in the covenant entitles the child to an "eternal parentage" and the handbook is specific and clear that it does not mention the previous spouse as the "eternal parent." The handbook is clear that the child is born within the covenant, not that the child is sealed to the Ex.

That paragraph is clear that a child in these conditions is born in the covenant, but it is extremely ambiguous about to whom the child is sealed. But when the actual sealing of a child is performed, the child is performed to the father and the mother at that altar*. If the child is born in a covenant, he is sealed to the participants in that sealing.

Since the Ex, has broken the covenant, and the wife is remarried, it is obvious the child is the biological father's and will be his "here and now" as well as in the eternities as the biological father remains faithful to the covenants he will make in the temple.

EDIT: At least to me.

From the text in the CHI and from the way it's discussed, it isn't obvious at all. If it were obvious, it would be so painful for so many people. But I would agree with you if you were to say that no one really believes the child is sealed to the ex husband (despite the administrative definition), which is where we come to my statement that I consider this an administrative failing.

Reading the rest of section 3.6.2 in the CHI also points out an interesting tidbit. The CHI makes allowance for adopted children who were born in the covenant to their biological parent to be sealed to their adopted parent. Apparently, the who is really important in cases of adoption, and a guarantee of eternal parentage isn't enough. Yet, no provision is made to allow a child to be sealed to his biological parent. It's a real head scratcher.

On a different note, here are some ideas on how we could make the problem go away.

1. Make an allowance for children to be sealed to their biological parents (perhaps with stake presidency approval, or area authority approval)

2. Clarify that the sealing of a child born in the covenant only applies to the biological parent in that sealing.

3. Admit that being born in the covenant (or that being sealed to parents) doesn't really mean anything*

*At least not beyond the "great chain of the human family" or whatever.

Anyway, if we really want to hash this out any further, let's do it elsewhere. So, Carroll, I'm with you. It stinks. It's dumb. It's senseless. But at least we've established that no one really believes your son is going to be sealed to the ex-husband, no matter what the administrative reality is.

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Did you not think to find out these things before you got married? It,s not fair to be angry at the bishop or the church for your failure to inform yourself about these things....

Yeah, blame the new convert. That will solve everything.

M.

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Anyway, if we really want to hash this out any further, let's do it elsewhere. So, Carroll, I'm with you. It stinks. It's dumb. It's senseless. But at least we've established that no one really believes your son is going to be sealed to the ex-husband, no matter what the administrative reality is.

I am thinking MoE, the information as given by the First Presidency, the Apostles, and Presiding Bishop are in no way "senseless" or "dumb," but given to us after much thought, study and meditation.

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Let's go back to basics here for a minute.

What does it mean to be "sealed to" somebody?

JAG, my understanding is that the sealing covenant, being "sealed to," must be accompanied by the "holy spirit of promise" otherwise their is no "sealing" which binds on earth as in heaven. The covenant is received, but the promise is not given until the spirit of promise accepts or justifies the sealing, and then the couple must live according to the covenants within the temple, otherwise their is no promise.

I, honestly, believe the wording is given by principle, and to the best knowledge we currently have, because there are varying "circumstances" which change the meaning and allow us to be governed by principle. We no longer live the "law of Moses," and should not be governed by a "school master," but are given opportunities to govern ourselves.

But, then again, did I answer the question? :)

Edited by Anddenex
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#1 there is no such thing as a "Temple Divorce" - its a Cancellation of Sealing.

You will not be able to be sealed to your wife until her cancellation is complete, once it is complete you will be able to be sealed to her and your child at the same time.

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First its still possible to get the papers through in time (if they are almost turned in already) Took us about 2-3 weeks for a cancelation once it was in. Sometimes it takes months. It depends on the situation of the last marriage. They have tried to speed it up recent years.

Man has no monopoly on the kingdom of God. The sealings still must be "ratified by teh holy spirit of promise" to make anything final in heaven. Thus all sealings here are temporary until ratified. So if you live up to the Everlasting Covenant of Marriage between you and your spouse your children will still be sealed to you through the ratification of the holy spirit of promise (if you receive it through your faithfulness)... Outwardly you may not be sealed to the family but the real sealings are sealed in heaven through that spirit... All who are worthy will be sealed in their proper place in the eternities. The blessings will still be present in your families life as if you did do so if you have done all you can for them at this time (as it seems you are).

If you are sealed to your wife and she is sealed to your children you ARE sealed to your children. The purpose of the sealing power is to SEAL EVERYONE TOGETHER. Thus it does not matter as much of "which child was sealed to which parent" but that the connection is made to all of the human family. (Others may tell you different, but pray about this)

This is How I look at it. Though it may not ease your frustrations. Remember how multiple wives were sealed to husbands? They did so, so they had a place in the eternal family. It did not matter as much who they are sealed to. The Lord can put them to the proper "husband" or "wife" in the eternities because the GIANT family is all sealed together as ONE.

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Anddenex, I guess what I'm sort of driving at, is that a lot of times we get upset about sealing policy even though we really don't know what the practical implications of that policy would actually be.

The idea of the Holy Spirit of Promise ratifying the priesthood ritual is certainly part of that. But assume that the Holy Spirit of Promise really does ratify the sealing. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the OP's biological child really is eternally "sealed" to the ex-husband, in the fullest, divinely-recognized sense.

What does it mean to have been "sealed"? What implications does that sealing really have for the child, for the ex-husband, and for the OP? Some people have hinted here that being sealed to my child means the child is "mine". But what, exactly, does that mean?

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Let's go back to basics here for a minute.

What does it mean to be "sealed to" somebody?

In terms of a man and a woman being sealed to each other, my understanding is that it means this:

And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths (D&C 132:19)

In terms of a child being sealed to his or her parents, as far as I can tell, it only means that his or her parents are sealed (unless, of course, they aren't*). But I am aware of no covenant, promise, blessing, or benefit that is afforded children who are "sealed to their parents" that isn't afforded to them if the parent is sealed and is striving to live their covenants. The only benefit I can find to it is emotional (which is nice, but not theological).

So again, it seems that being sealed to your parents only means your parents are sealed--except when they're not*. (are you seeing the impetus for my third suggestion now?)

* A person's BIC status, so far as I am aware, is never removed even following the cancellation of a sealing.

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Anddenex, I guess what I'm sort of driving at, is that a lot of times we get upset about sealing policy even though we really don't know what the practical implications of that policy would actually be.

Agreed. The implications of a sealing, being born in the covenant, are very intriguing to think about and to actually define what this entails even more intriguing and mysterious (mysterious as in unknown as of yet).

But assume that the Holy Spirit of Promise really does ratify the sealing. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the OP's biological child really is eternally "sealed" to the ex-husband, in the fullest, divinely-recognized sense.

This part of the ChoI 1, stands out to me which mentions the contingent for the "sealing" -- faithfulness.

This is part of the reason why I like the handbooks principle, for example, the wife has an affair, conceives from the affair, who is the child sealed to? If the wife repents, the husband fully forgives, then the child is both sealed to the couple, however the child due to the sealing is now entitled to an "eternal parentage," whether that be the father or mother, or someone else.

What if both parents, as we see in some cases, are not "faithful" to their covenant of made in the temple, even if it was originally sealed, then I would not be surprised if the sealing defaults to the grandparents, by which the lineage passes through.

Thus, I believe one of the "keys" to being "sealed to" is our faithfulness in correlation with the holy spirit of promise.

What does it mean to have been "sealed"? What implications does that sealing really have for the child, for the ex-husband, and for the OP? Some people have hinted here that being sealed to my child means the child is "mine". But what, exactly, does that mean?

This is Anddenex's opinion on the matter, as I have studied more I believe I am technically only sealed to my spouse, my wife. Our sealing allows children to be born under the covenant and the option for an eternal parentage. Whether or not my children will be mine in the next life, We (my wife and I) being their eternal parents, will be determined by our faithfulness. If I am unfaithful, then I have no promise and my wife will be given to another (if she is faithful), and our children will be given to her new spouse, through her faithfulness and covenant.

This is according to my studies and understanding of the sealing covenant.

Edited by Anddenex
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