Moving but incompatible ward boundary

[longtang2]

The new place to which we are moving has a church building 2 blocks away. However, the ward boundary would put us in a ward very very far away. We don't drive on Sundays. This presents a hazard for my family if we were to go to the far away ward (mapped ward).

We would like to go to the closer ward (Smiley ward in Redlands, instead of Prospect Ward).

Has anyone successfully got their wards changed? I want to go to the Smiley Ward. Are exceptions made for special circumstances such that a family would be allowed to call a different ward home?

What should we do?

thx!

[Guest]

Hazard?

[longtang2]

The propect ward in Redlands would involve walking 2 miles passing under a freeway overhead. It is in Redlands ca.

The smiley ward in Redlands would be 1.5 blocks away.

I wouldn't want to put my family through the hazard of the walk. I have a wife who is recovering from breast cancer. Also two young children 2 years and 7 yrs old. It would put their lives at risk walking that distance with no sidewalks in Redlands.

That is the hazard of which I speak. Perhaps hazard is not the right word. Perhaps I can come up with an euphemism that would better intimate my meaning. But, what I mean is that it is dangerous to be walking with no sidewalk passing under a freeway with a young family of four members. Ppl in California txt while they drive, and they yell at the kids in the back seat. They are a very distracted bunch. Luckily, the way to smiley ward has sidewalks for most of the portions. Just today, I saw a guy who was chowing down on a burger while driving. He dripped all over his shirt and was looking down while driving and slowing down. I could only sigh and shake my head.

Thx!

I need to get accepted into smiley ward. I can't see walking to prospect ward.

Not sure what I and going to do. I hope the Clerk at smiley ward can be moved by the spirit and let our young family into their gates.

Fingers crossed.

[estradling75]

Show up at the Smiley Ward... Ask for an appointment with the Bishop.

Tell the Bishop your story... Ask for a boundary exception.

That is the process you need to take to try to make this happen

[Leah]

There is no prohibition against driving on Sundays. Why not just drive to your assigned ward?

[Gwen]

Personal thoughts on valid reasons why one would not drive to church when they can walk......

With gas prices going up I could see not driving on certain days to keep in the budget.

I know some that walk because they find the morning walk helps to take them away from everyday things and prepare for the meetings. It's part of their spiritual preparation.

That short slow walk as a family may be the only exercise his wife can handle while in recovery. If he's not home to go with her then they don't go.

Maybe the walk to church helps the kids get the wiggles out so they can be reverent at church.

Maybe one of them has serious road rage and they would like at least one day of the week to not have to repent of saying/thinking something ugly (especially on the way to church) or a day where they can let their brain rest from the constant need to control it.

Maybe it was just a tradition that one of them had growing up and they want to keep doing it. Or they started out walking as newlyweds and found it improved things for them so they kept up even after kids.

In the end it doesn't matter why they walk. That's what their family does. Even not walking I would be inclined to object over the boundaries as well. I'm saying this as someone that moved from 1 mi from church to about 12 mi from church. It has been one of our biggest adjustments.

Talk to the bishop. I know several ppl that have attended outside of their boundaries. It will probably have to go to the stake for final decision but the bishop will know where to start. The only reason I could see it being a big deal is if one of the units is very small and they need the priesthood support. But if both are wards I can't see where it should be an issue.

[longtang2]

Thank you everyone. I think this site is wonderful.

Yes . . . in regards to walking, I can't say that I have any earth-moving reasons. The reasons are small and minor. However, it just has personal meanings for us. When I think of the day of rest, I think leisurely and resting. It is a time to reflect. Driving, and rushing to get the kids belted in and everyone sit in a box facing the forward, just sort of takes away from the who milieu and the tranquility.

Well, whatever happens going forth, my wish for everyone who have helped us out here is: May all your Sundays be restful; and may your God (be it alah, jehovah, or the bellied man on a lotus leaf) be kind to you as well.

Thx!

cheers.

Edited June 1, 2013 by longtang2

[Leah]

Personal thoughts on valid reasons why one would not drive to church when they can walk......

With gas prices going up I could see not driving on certain days to keep in the budget.

I know some that walk because they find the morning walk helps to take them away from everyday things and prepare for the meetings. It's part of their spiritual preparation.

That short slow walk as a family may be the only exercise his wife can handle while in recovery. If he's not home to go with her then they don't go.

Maybe the walk to church helps the kids get the wiggles out so they can be reverent at church.

Maybe one of them has serious road rage and they would like at least one day of the week to not have to repent of saying/thinking something ugly (especially on the way to church) or a day where they can let their brain rest from the constant need to control it.

Maybe it was just a tradition that one of them had growing up and they want to keep doing it. Or they started out walking as newlyweds and found it improved things for them so they kept up even after kids.

In the end it doesn't matter why they walk. That's what their family does. Even not walking I would be inclined to object over the boundaries as well. I'm saying this as someone that moved from 1 mi from church to about 12 mi from church. It has been one of our biggest adjustments.

Talk to the bishop. I know several ppl that have attended outside of their boundaries. It will probably have to go to the stake for final decision but the bishop will know where to start. The only reason I could see it being a big deal is if one of the units is very small and they need the priesthood support. But if both are wards I can't see where it should be an issue.

I am sure anyone can come up with a "personal reason" for anything. We see it all the time when people think they should be the exception to the rule, depart from church teachings, etc. I was merely inquiring as to the pertinent circumstances here. The reason may or may not be relevant and could impact those with the authority to grant the necessary permission.

As a former Orthodox Jew, I am very familiar with walking on the sabbath. I am not aware of any such prohibitions in the LDS church.

I also understand boundary frustrations. My current ward had a boundary change that caused a lot of upset feelings. The house next door to us was suddenly in a different ward. The church is one of order and boundaries have to be drawn somewhere. The fact that another ward is two blocks away would not be sufficient reason. If it were, the whole neighborhood could be granted an exception and then what would be the point of even having boundaries.

The thing for the OP to do would be to go to the bishop with his reasons and counsel together with the bishop, who will be guided by the Spirit. As with all things in life, Heavenly Father has plans for us that might be what we would have chosen. There very well could be a reason why this family might end up in one ward versus another.

[longtang2]

As in all things, leave to to the spirit. That is very gd admonishment. I will let the spirit guide us going forth. If we have to resign ourselves to being permanent visitors at the closer ward, we will embrace that status. I can't see a ward refusing four visitors under any circumstance, so I am fairly sure it's going to work out no matter what.

Thank you for making us think in terms of spirit guidance. That is very good points.

Cheers

I am sure anyone can come up with a "personal reason" for anything. We see it all the time when people think they should be the exception to the rule, depart from church teachings, etc. I was merely inquiring as to the pertinent circumstances here. The reason may or may not be relevant and could impact those with the authority to grant the necessary permission.

As a former Orthodox Jew, I am very familiar with walking on the sabbath. I am not aware of any such prohibitions in the LDS church.

I also understand boundary frustrations. My current ward had a boundary change that caused a lot of upset feelings. The house next door to us was suddenly in a different ward. The church is one of order and boundaries have to be drawn somewhere. The fact that another ward is two blocks away would not be sufficient reason. If it were, the whole neighborhood could be granted an exception and then what would be the point of even having boundaries.

The thing for the OP to do would be to go to the bishop with his reasons and counsel together with the bishop, who will be guided by the Spirit. As with all things in life, Heavenly Father has plans for us that might be what we would have chosen. There very well could be a reason why this family might end up in one ward versus another.

Edited June 1, 2013 by longtang2

[Gwen]

My only point is the fact that there is no prohibition should be irrelevant. I can understanding asking why, out of curiosity if nothing else but to preface that with the lack of prohibition seemed judgmental to me. Sorry if I misunderstood the tone. There are no prohibitions on a lot of things and yet we should be doing them out of the spirit of the law. There is guidance against some things and yet ppl seem to flaunt that they do it. We all have to make certain decisions. We shouldn't need earth moving reasons to listen to promptings from god as to what is right for our family.

I totally understand boundaries and you have to draw the line somewhere but sometimes I really don't think much thought went into it. The only time I've seen when one side of the street is in one ward and the other in a different ward was when they met in the same building just at different times. I don't see making someone drive across town when there is a building 2 blocks away... that was the only place to draw the line? Our stake has always confused me. Our stake ctr is not centrally located, it's at the top edge of our stake. Which means those at the south edge of the stake have to drive 2 or more hrs for meetings. It also means the stake ctr for the next stake over is only 10 min from ours. That confuses me. As a result many of our stake mtgs take place at the ward building that is centrally located instead of the stake ctr (which is a very considerate accommodation done by our stake).

If you become a frequent visitor to the closer ward just keep in mind that you will need to attend the assigned ward enough to pay tithing, get the necessary interviews, etc. It will make holding callings difficult. But I've seen that done as well.

[Smudge]

When I was at university we had a family who moved across the road and into a different ward and they were given permission to stay in the ward they had been in.

[selek]

I have to agree with Gwen.

The boundary mentioned in the OP is "incompatible" ONLY in that longtang2 believes his family's predilections and preferences are "special" and should be exempted from the same rules as the rest of the Latter-day Saints.

The "permanent visitor" crack is likewise a warning of priorities which are seriously misplaced.

In my opinion, this isn't a question of "hardship", but of indulgence.

The Bishop in the ward he and his family wish to camp out cannot (absent an exception to the rules) recommend Longtang or his family to the Temple.

Given that the Temple- and the covenants made therein- are crucial to exaltation, Longtang is implicitly willing to accept a lesser Kingdom of Glory as the price of not dealing with car seats.

Does that seem right to you?

Home and visiting teachers (assuming they come at all) will likewise come from his home ward, rather than his preferred one. As such, they will be virtual (if not literal) strangers to this family.

Again- without an exception approved by the leadership- the Bishop with whom the family is camping out will have neither stewardship nor means to provide for their spiritual or temporal welfare, nor the authority to call them to service (which more often than not enriches those called more than those served).

Does this still sound like a minor issue of little importance?

If so, what other compromises are you willing to sign off on in the name of "convenience"?

It is up to those who hold the stewardship and calling to decide whether they will grant Longtang2 an exemption to the rules. I would not gainsay their decision whichever direction they choose.

Given the red flags involved, however, (and were it my stewardship) I would not grant the exemption without considerable prayer and clear direction to that end from the Holy Spirit.

Edited June 2, 2013 by selek

[estradling75]

I totally understand boundaries and you have to draw the line somewhere but sometimes I really don't think much thought went into it. The only time I've seen when one side of the street is in one ward and the other in a different ward was when they met in the same building just at different times. I don't see making someone drive across town when there is a building 2 blocks away... that was the only place to draw the line? Our stake has always confused me. Our stake ctr is not centrally located, it's at the top edge of our stake. Which means those at the south edge of the stake have to drive 2 or more hrs for meetings. It also means the stake ctr for the next stake over is only 10 min from ours. That confuses me. As a result many of our stake mtgs take place at the ward building that is centrally located instead of the stake ctr (which is a very considerate accommodation done by our stake).

In my experience alot of thought goes into it when boundaries change in a ward.

Many assume it is the building that defines the Ward... This is not how the church views it. The church views it as the members defining the Ward.

A ward needs a certain number of members in total and it needs a certain number of strong leadership types. I have seen some pretty funky boundries drawn not because they were being thoughtless but because the were trying to balance the numbers and leadership types between the changing areas.

When the church builds a building they do there best to make it assessable and useful as possible. Over time though people move, demographics change... Which can seriously alter the physical focal point of a ward and/or stake.

The church isn't going to let go of a perfectly functional building and build another just to make it a little bit more convenient to a few members. And most definitively not if it means they would just need to do it again in a decade or two. That would just be wasteful.

[kiwigirl]

I'm a member of the Smiley Ward in Redlands:)

I agree with Estradling75: Go to Smiley ward the first Sunday you're in town. Get an appointment with the Bishop. Very nice Bishop, BTW. Explain your situation.

The Redlands' wards underwent a huge boundary change November of last year.

The members of the stake were counseled in that realignment meeting that we were to attend the new wards to which we were assigned - one of the main reasons for realignment was along geographical lines for emergency prep reasons/Home and Visiting Teachers would be closer, etc etc -- which would then underscore your reasons to attend a closer building.

If you're two blocks away that puts you at 3 miles away from the Prospect Park Building. We live 3 miles from that building. Now I can walk to church or drive to it in less than 2 minutes.

The Bishop will counsel you. Good luck.

[kartvines]

My ward got split, and I would have really preferred to stay in the Beaumont Ward, but was told instead I had to start attending services at the Oak Valley ward in Calimesa. I have never walked so that was not a concern instead it sort of bothers me that we are not free to choose which ward to be a member of. I would have been much happier to stay in the Beaumont/Banning Ward, but we are excluded form that choice, not only is that ward much closer I felt more at home in it, sorry if I high jacked your thread

[Guest]

How entitled are we when it's worth breaking our covenants to not have to drive a few miles to go to church? Or that we think we should get what we want or else? There are people who walk or drive much, much longer than that. My friend used to drive over an hour each way to get to church, and their ward boundaries covered hundreds of miles.

We covenant to give all we have, including our time. We covenant to serve where we're asked. Refusing to attend the ward to which we're assigned because the location or the people aren't the ones we want is not keeping those covenants. Doing so because we find more holiness in walking than in driving is looking beyond the mark to an extreme degree. Is it more important to observe a pretend rule, than to "go where He wants us to go" so that we can keep our covenants in filling callings, paying tithing, etc?

[MarginOfError]

Let me tell you what I'd say to you if I were the bishop of your assigned ward.

I'd tell you that you're welcome to attend the other ward, but I won't be transferring your records there until you can demonstrate to me either that you have a legitimate reason that attending your assigned ward would prevent the spiritual edification of your family or that the physical well being or your family is unnecessarily jeopardized by attending your assigned ward. If you could persuade me of one of those two things, I'd happily transfer your records and wish you well.

If you couldn't demonstrate one of those two things, I would then tell you that while you are free to attend any other ward you please, your membership record would remain in your assigned ward. Consequently, you would need to return to me to renew your temple recommend. If I were to only see you once every two years when you sought a temple recommend, I'd have to decline the request as I would know very little about your spiritual worthiness since you aren't participating with your assigned ward.

[estradling75]

My ward got split, and I would have really preferred to stay in the Beaumont Ward, but was told instead I had to start attending services at the Oak Valley ward in Calimesa. I have never walked so that was not a concern instead it sort of bothers me that we are not free to choose which ward to be a member of. I would have been much happier to stay in the Beaumont/Banning Ward, but we are excluded form that choice, not only is that ward much closer I felt more at home in it, sorry if I high jacked your thread

There is a way... if you want it bad enough... You can move. If you are willing to go to all that trouble and hassle to physically move your residence you can be a part of any ward that you wish.

Most people aren't willing to sacrifice that much to get what they want...

[sarah331]

Hmmm this is an interesting thread for me. I'd been toying with the idea of going to church (investigator) but would prefer a ward not the one "assigned" to me, mostly just from what I've been able to gather about the people there. I think they would mesh more with my and my family's way of life, etc. Is this not really to be done? My H is inactive and he seemed uncomfortable with the idea (so I obviously am not pushing it). Are there ever exceptions if you just don't fit in to a ward culture? ETA I see this as less of an issue in sacrament meeting than the classes/meetings afterwards and fitting in socially -- which I know isn't as big an issue for some families and I know spirituality should be the prime focus. But the social aspects shouldn't really be ignored, either, when you talk about the church as a big family.

OP I wish you luck in your search. As an outsider I don't find your problem much of a problem at all -- go where you know people and are comfortable and can walk.

[Gwen]

My stake pres recently told me that he was presented with a request that was very out of the norm. The handbook even had instructions against it. But no matter how much he prayed and pondered he felt he should give the request made. He ended up calling the area authority for advice (he is a pretty new stake pres). The counsel he was given was that the church is here to support the family, everything about the gospel is designed to bring the family closer to god. He was told to pray about it and decide if giving this request would support this family in coming closer to god and if denying it would somehow push them away. When he knew that answer he would know what to do, make your decision and stand by it. He ended up giving this family their request.

I have seen ppl get records moved because they didn't like the bishop. I have seen ppl get records moved over location (closer to the other unit). I have seen records moved due to custody agreements from divorce (records in a location the child didn't live). I've seen records moved for all kinds of reasons.

For the record I think if you can you should go to your assigned ward. You should support your area and build the kingdom where you are. I think moving records because you don't like the bishop is for the most part probably foolish. However, that is between the person and their leadership. I think what was described in the op is a valid reason, it supports the family in coming closer to god. Unless there is prayer and direct revelation otherwise then no big deal. If the request is denied then I would give the new ward a chance, see if the lord has something for you there before resigning yourself to perpetual visitor status.

(off on a side note, I used to have this horrible dream about my husband's ex father in law being called to come down and be our branch pres and I was trying to get our records moved without much luck. ahhhhhh lol)

[mountain_trails]

From a practical standpoint, if everyone were to go to any ward they chose, staffing, administering, and even teaching the gospel would be chaotic. No doubt this is large part of why it is discouraged to attend a ward outside your boundaries.

I do wish there was a little more consideration of the impact these boundaries can have on members though. When my oldest was 13, our ward was split, and she became the only young woman in the ward (this is in Utah, BTW). As she entered high school, instead of having a "ready made" group of friends from the ward, she was on her own. She pleaded with me to move but that was not a reasonable solution at the time. Now as an adult, she has a testimony but little activity in the church, and all her friends are non-lds. Of course she is responsible for her own choices, but I believe that had a major impact (she has told me that it did, also).

6 months after the stake president that split the ward was released, the ward was dissolved back into the neighboring ward. It just wasn't (and really never was) viable on it's own.

To the OP, most wards I have been in have at one time or another had someone attend from out of the area. We even have a family that refuses to do 1-4 church. When we move to that schedule, they change to the early ward. We're all in the same building so I don't think their records actually move, but they hold callings (on a yearly basis, I guess), and I've seen them at the temple, so they must have that worked out. This has been happening for several years and to my knowledge nobody even questions it now. I would encourage you to pray about it and if you feel that the ward that is close to you is the ward you should attend, make an appt with the Stake president and explain your position. I believe that by counseling together with him that you will come to a solution that you can feel good about.

[applepansy]

I have not read through everything. I did see the post suggesting that permanent visitor status wouldn't be so bad. But... consider that if your records aren't in the ward you're attending you might be unable to get a temple recommend.

[Drpepper]

If the choice is 1.5 blocks or 2 miles away to attend church no matter which decision is made i would count my blessings every single step, every single sunday. I drove my family to church 96miles roundtrip every sunday for 3 years. Crying, laughing, vomiting, screaming, singing we had it all and more :)

[MIssB]

When I was in college, I wanted to attend a family ward not a student or singles ward. I went to my assigned family ward for 2 weeks - it has an extremely high population of people over the age of 60. I discovered that another ward in my Stake has a nice group of young singles in it - maybe 15 or 20. I met with the Bishop of my assigned ward and he said that he would be more than happy to arrange for me to attend the other ward since I would have a group of members who were in a similar place in life. In fact, if I had lived on the other side of the apartment complex, I would have been in that ward. (Maybe that's why both bishops were so open to it?)

It absolutely cannot hurt to inquire. The leaders of the church are inspired and know what is best for us. It can be frustrating when boundaries don't make sense, but meeting with your bishop can give you some clarity and understanding.

[Praetorian_Brow]

I think its a bit silly to compare temple covenants with ward boundaries. Although, there are those who believe if the floral arrangements on the pulpit aren't matching the curtains, then they have failed in their duty to God.

Attending church is voluntary and considerations must be made to continue that direction. Doing so would involve discretion, not dictation. If people feel unwelcome or resent passive aggression, then they are less likely to attend.