Disfellowship - How It Works


Recommended Posts

I guess i am doing ok. I talked to my bishop a little over a week ago, he said that the standard procedure for things that I did is a disciplinary council, but he wanted to wait a little while for that. After i met with him I felt wonderful, and like there was hope, but i've fallen back into the old bad stuff now and don't know if that cycle will ever end. I believe that through Christ I could overcome all of this, but I don't think i'll ever choose to. I want to though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess i am doing ok. I talked to my bishop a little over a week ago, he said that the standard procedure for things that I did is a disciplinary council, but he wanted to wait a little while for that. After i met with him I felt wonderful, and like there was hope, but i've fallen back into the old bad stuff now and don't know if that cycle will ever end. I believe that through Christ I could overcome all of this, but I don't think i'll ever choose to. I want to though.

Just keep hanging on to your faith in Christ! Remember, he says that he will never leave nor forsake you!:) I only hope and pray that this can be resolved without having to go through ex-communication. I've heard where this has actually turned some truly repentant people bitter afterwards. IMHO, I don't think the Lord would want something like that to happen. But regardless of what happens, don't ever break your love and trust in your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He can be your best friend in times like these.:) Best of luck and will be praying for you.

Edited by Carl62
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You no longer have the Holy Ghost as your constant companion. Satan works on you even harder. Sometimes it makes it difficult to return. You really have to work hard to overcome many things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You no longer have the Holy Ghost as your constant companion. Satan works on you even harder. Sometimes it makes it difficult to return. You really have to work hard to overcome many things.

That's so true! I was thinking he was referring more to the actual process of what the church would have you do before getting baptised again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't think I can do it. I mean, I know it is possible through Christ...I believe that much, but I don't think I can make the sacrifices that I need to in order to choose to let Him help. Part of me wants to very much, but not enough to stick with it. I don't know that i'll ever do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't think I can do it. I mean, I know it is possible through Christ...I believe that much, but I don't think I can make the sacrifices that I need to in order to choose to let Him help. Part of me wants to very much, but not enough to stick with it. I don't know that i'll ever do so.

I pray for you.

Do you believe Christ has the power to help you? Do you believe and feel He loves you enough to help you? I hope you will keep pondering and praying on that. Pray hard. You've got to feel Him with you when you're in those tough situations, ready to pull you to where ya need to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

How can you take The Holy Ghost from someone? (I don't mean it in the way to justify it, but literally.)

What is given after baptism ie the gift of the holy ghost, is withdrawn and one is like any other non member, who can feel the spirit but not as a constant companion. Some people who I saw excommunicated would comment later that they then knew what it meant to have the holy ghost now that they had lost its companionship.

Re Carl62,

Why would it be difficult to return?

Because of the process. General comments are that about 7 out of 10 excommunicated never return (although the church doesn't admit or publish this) and the process can be exhausting; the person needs to spend at least a year in church without taking the sacrament, then be re interviewed by Bishop and convince him that you have repented fully, if its an elder he also has to convince the SP first that he is fully repented, then have a new disciplinary council and have that go well, then be rebaptized formally; oh and the records would have been canceled and sometimes there's a messup getting the records back from HQ, then if endowed you have to wait another year after baptism before applying to first presidency for a 'restoration of blessings' and then if approved (can take 2 months to 12 months for the paperwork to return) be interviewed by a general authority, who sometimes is a apostle, and convince him that you've fully repented....well, its obvious that it's better not to sin in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too often we know of people who are not disfellowshipped or ex-ed when they need to be to help them repent, specifically in cases of abuse, despite Pres. Hinckley being very clear over & over about people who abuse their spouse in any way usually needing to receive such discipline. Such abusers usually profess to be & seem to be righteous & wonderful & don't seem like the type, so they often go undetected if the Bishop & Stake Pres. do not have the Spirit of Discernment as they should.

As with any form of Abuse, whether Adultery (emotional or physical), Porn, Divorce, or any other emotional, financial, sexual or physical abuse, if the abuser or abandoner isn't disciplined enough they almost always just get worse & worse & go deeper in sin, until they become past feeling & it's too late to get them to return & repent.

Edited by foreverafter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too often we know of people who are not disfellowshipped or ex-ed when they need to be to help them repent, specifically in cases of abuse, despite Pres. Hinckley being very clear over &...........

Yes, certainly, since one of the main purpose of church discipline is to help the sinner repent; others are to protect the innocent and protect the good name of the church. But I wouldn't put 'Divorce' in that list of forms of Abuse since divorce is usually the best one way to stop an abusive relationship and a road to rebuilding after a case of abuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I wouldn't put 'Divorce' in that list of forms of Abuse since divorce is usually the best one way to stop an abusive relationship and a road to rebuilding after a case of abuse.

Even though most marriages have to deal with abuse by one spouse or the other or both, the Prophets say that only in very rare cases is divorce maybe justified. For often both spouses are abusive to each other in various ways & neither are keeping their covenants to love each other as they should.

Divorce is usually very abusive to a spouse & children, (often worse to a spouse than some physical or sexual abuse) & one of the worst of sins to commit they say, even adultery. And many Bishops & Stk. Pres. who still understand the seriousness & huge sin of divorce, still excommunicate for divorce alone, even if there isn't an affair connected with it yet.

As one seasoned Stake Patriarch said, for a man to divorce his wife & even put his name on a singles web site, is adultery. Adultery &/or Abandonment are forms of spouse abuse, which bring disfellowshipment or excommunication if the spouse doesn not return to the marriage & repent & make complete restitution.

I believe that keeping our sacred marriage covenants is always the safest, fastest & best way to rebuild & heal after abuse, even if you have to do it from a safe distance.

Edited by foreverafter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't think I can do it. I mean, I know it is possible through Christ...I believe that much, but I don't think I can make the sacrifices that I need to in order to choose to let Him help. Part of me wants to very much, but not enough to stick with it. I don't know that i'll ever do so.

Start with one thing you think you can do. Get strong in that. Then move to the next thing. You don't have to do it all at once. In fact, Christ most likely will help you learn to do one thing at a time. That is how he changes us...line upon line, precept upon precept. And remember that there is no expected timeline for recovery or divine healing. Time is a differently thing to God. So be kind to yourself. Celebrate even the smallest of victories. God knows how monumental they are. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • 1 year later...

There really is no set process or timeline for the disciplinary process and many thing can impact how long it takes and what needs to take place. In addition to the attitude and actions of the member who is undergoing the process, there are other things that play a role. Each individual Bishop impacts the process. The culture of a ward, the stake and the area also impact the process. What may be completed in 5 months in a BYU ward may take a year in a family ward in California.

Remember also that inspiration comes from many places. A bishops own experiences, education, knowledge and wisdom, in addition to what he hears and sees around him is where he will draw judgement in addition to the inspiration of the holy spirit.

Also, when a member is disfellowshipped or excommunicated there are actually two process at work that, while intertwined, are really independent of one another. The first is the repentance process. This process is taking place between the person and their Heavenly Father, with the help of our savior and the spirit. A bishop, stake president or the prophet himself can not set a timeline on this or tell you whether your repentance is complete. This process could be over in weeks or months or in the case of Paul, just a couple days.

The second part is the disciplin or punishment part which can and will take longer. While the Lord promissss us that when we repent fully that HE remembers no more, man isn't quick to forget or forgive so the disciplinary process will likely go on for a longer period of time, even once the person has fully repented.

A couple of the comments above are a bit short sighted and even possibly reference a catch 22 type of mentality where they suggest that if a person is anxious or inquiring as to when the process will be over then they aren't ready. It is my observation that too many disciplinary process linger on longer than they should and the lack of structure an communication on the part of priesthood leadership help cause this. I have heard leaders use terms like "you're so close" or "you're almost there" like repentance is a destination instead of a process we all must undergo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While Disfellowshipped, or Ex'd Can you bare your testimony in sacrament? Or is that considered like speaking or what not? A question i have had for a long time.

There is no rule in or out of the church that's says you can't bear testimony in a church meeting regardless of whether you are a member, disfellowshipped, or excommunicated. Nether the bishop, stake president nor the prophet can restrain an individual from testifying of Jesus Christ. We all have agency and every knee shall bow and every tongue can and will confess the Christ. To prohibit someone would take away their agency.....only an anti-Christ would attempt to stop a person from bearing testimony.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was in the meeting when a man nobody knew got up and bore a testimony, in which he said he had just been walking down the street and saw the church house and decided to come in, and he had a sweet testimony of the Savior. I don't remember what else he said, or if he got the missionary discussions or anything. It would be nice to know.

I doubt it would be a good idea to get up and rail against the church in a testimony meeting though.

I also wonder if it is ok to sing in the choir? I think you are not supposed to partake of the sacrament.

--- I was on a supposedly non denominational board years ago (actually I participated in quite a few) anyway, this one had an area for LDS, and other areas, and for quite a while I really enjoyed answering questions and commenting. I would always supply scriptural support and I never hid that I was LDS. I did get some who began to attack what they thought were our beliefs (anti garbage) and it was quite edifying to get to show what we really believe.

Then one of the moderators came on and said I was now going to be limited to the LDS area only-- which I thought was weird but it was their board. I still had a lot of people talking to me, and then the moderators told me in a private message, that there were pastors who were upset with the board, that said their people were coming to them with questions, and that I was spreading lies etc.

I explained that was not true, etc, but they said ONLY if I would publically on their board admit that I didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ etc, would they allow me to stay on the board!

That was incredible!!! Talk about doing satans work! Well, I naturally refussed to do that, and so I was banned for posting, and I didn't even get to explain to the people on there what had happened. I wondered if they went and deleted all the comments I had made. Anyway, some did get to see SOME truth about LDS. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too often we know of people who are not disfellowshipped or ex-ed when they need to be to help them repent, specifically in cases of abuse, despite Pres. Hinckley being very clear over & over about people who abuse their spouse in any way usually needing to receive such discipline. Such abusers usually profess to be & seem to be righteous & wonderful & don't seem like the type, so they often go undetected if the Bishop & Stake Pres. do not have the Spirit of Discernment as they should.

As with any form of Abuse, whether Adultery (emotional or physical), Porn, Divorce, or any other emotional, financial, sexual or physical abuse, if the abuser or abandoner isn't disciplined enough they almost always just get worse & worse & go deeper in sin, until they become past feeling & it's too late to get them to return & repent.

It's interesting how the Church's official position is the murder and adultery (next to denying the Holy Ghost) are the two most serious sins a person can commit. In reality, murder harms a persons body, while domestic violence harms a person's soul. I have seen atrocities committed that are way worse than murder or adultery/fornication.

I disagree with the point that more people should be disfellowshipped/excommunicated to help them repent. The vast majority of those who enter the Church's disfellowshipped/excommunication process never, ever emerge as healthy members again. As a business person you can't continue using a process with such a high failure rate. Too often the disciplinary process looks to correct behavior and not treat the root of the problem. This is the reason that so many who do come back from DF/ExComm end up back in the process again....only to ultimately fail again.

The DF/ExComm process is slow, lonely, provide very little if any real guidance, has poor communication, and more often than not, provides very little hope. More people need to be left in fellowship and in active association and participation with the general body of the church. Remove them from a calling? Sure! Limit temple attendance? Yes for a while! But process that drag on for years is not right. The current process actually forces more people to fear the repentance process and keeps them from clearing things up and serving in positions of leadership and trust when they shouldn't and live a life overshadowed by guilt.

By some estimations, roughly 80% of male LDS members have problems with pornography. Out of fear of the repentance process most will never come forward to get help. These tendencies and habits will destroy a marriage and a family (again an act way worse than murder). Bishops and SP and HC's need better training, the process needs to be better structured and more consistently applied, and members need to be less scared of the process and less judgemental of those who are in them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have a valid question, and you may be wondering for personal reasons, or just out of curiosity. However, you won't find the answers from any legit church website or person.

Why? 2 reasons. 1. The Church has no hard and fast rules. It is up to the discretion of the local or regional church officials involved. 2. (Which is more scary) is that the Church Handbook 1, which holds rules, regulations, suggested ideas to deal with particular situations (for Bishops, Stake Presidents, Etc) is not published to the general public.

Why? Good question. I have read Handbook 1, and there really is nothing at all "Secret" in it, just common sense stuff. Officially, the Church doesn't want Handbook 1 distributed to the Church membership so that Bishops and Stake Presidents can properly 'explain' the information. As if we are too dumb to understand? I have never understood this. If you want too, and don't feel that it is against church doctrine (or against your personal sense of right and wrong), you can easily find Handbook 1 online. I personally feel that Handbook 1 should be released publicly.

As far as answers to your questions... The reasons, what is taken away, the part the Bishop plays, and the duration of time, it all is completely subjective. It's up to the officials involved. Which scares me, because my Bishop doesn't like me at all. I'm too outspoken. My Temple Recommend is up for renewal in a few months, and I am thinking he is not going to renew it, because I don't attend Sacrament regularly (I choose to work on Sunday, because I get paid 35% more, and my family needs it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

Disfellowshipment is close to excommunication and in the book The Miracle of Forgiveness former President of the Church Spencer Kimball couples them with each other frequently. Disfellowshiped members’ cannot partake of the sacrament, hold a calling, be a home or visiting teacher, say "public" prayers, go to the temple, or exercise the priesthood. Just about all activity is suspended until further notice EXCEPT you can bear your testimony at church and may continue to wear garments if authorized.

 

Since I was once disfellowshipped before I was married and I know how hard it can be. Mine lasted two years. Some last a lot longer, some shorter, but never usually less than a year. However, it is not a situation to be desired.

 

Priesthood leaders pray about if the individual should be disfellowshipped and for how long. If the behavior changes the individual is restored to full fellowship. If you held the Melchizedek priesthood your Stake President handles the situation. On your church record it does show that you are disfellowshipped, and your leaders are notified most of the time, so as to avoid asking them to say a prayer in class when they cannot. My Elders Quorum President knew I was disfellowshipped and he was a great guy and didn't treat me any different. The general congregation does not know about your disfellowshipment, only certain leaders within the ward on a need-to-know basis.

 

Disfellowshipment is considered a blessing and an opportunity to repent--or turn away from the sin and to be cleansed by the atoning blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Interesting note, when I was disfellowshipped I asked by Stake President if I died--while being disfellowshipped--would I go to Spirit Prison or Paradise? He became very quiet and said that I would go to Spirit Prison because the sin had not yet been forgiven or resolved. I was very careful in traffic for those next two years in particular.

 

Since my time, I know and have known of many young single adults who are now married who probably should have been disfellowshipped before they were married like I was however they were not because, no one reported their conduct and they did not confess to leadership. However, they will at some point account for their penalties in this life or the next.

 

Disfellowshipment may affect your future capacity to hold high callings in the church. I am not for certain on this point, however generally you will not be called as a Bishop or Stake President if you have been previously disfellowshipped. You may be called as a counselor, but not into the position. Then again I thought you could not be called as a Bishop if you were divorce yet our ward has a Bishop that is divorced. The point being when being interviewed for very prominent callings more stringent questioning is given.

 

Disfellowshipment would be MUCH more common if people confessed their sins, instead of concealing them. Nothing is hidden from the Lord, but may be from his servants. I hope this information helps. God bless you.

Edited by ActiveLDSDadandFather
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share