Question--tithing?

[wyarwehere]

Okay, I did a search, and there's a whole bunch of different threads on tithing, but I couldn't find any that answered my question for me, so I'm going to throw it out to all of you lovely peoples.

I'm going back to school in less than a month(it's been a goal for the last six years now) and I'm excited. I got some federal aid, as well as a loan. The loan I got is for a bit more than I need, but it will cover the books and a portion of it will help me invest in a couple new items. I know I can take a portion of it for tithing tho, that's not my issue.

My issue is the tithing on the financial aid. I'm not actually seeing the money, it's being applied to my bill automatically. But do I still have to pay tithing on it? I'm not sure about this, and I don't have the nerve to actually ask anyone in my ward about this--there's only two or three I actually know well enough to even think about asking, and I usually don't talk to anyone about my finances--that's a throwback from mom and dad, it's hard to even talk to the bishop about them when I'm struggling.

Anyways, any help/insight you guys offer would be welcomed. Thanks.

[Dark_Jedi]

The simple answer: Do what you feel is right. I'm not saying you should ask, but if you did you'd find some people did tithe financial aid and scholarships and some did not. You do what you feel is right . By the way, if you were to ask your bishop that's the advice he should give you.

[dahlia]

I would raise one issue - the federal money is meant for you to use for school. Using it for anything else may constitute a crime or at the least, may cause you to lose your aid.

"If you have reason to suspect fraud, waste, or abuse involving federal student aid funds, you should call the U.S. Department of Education's Inspector General's toll-free hotline at..." Fafsa On The Web - Federal Aid - Financial Aid - Scholarships.com

I wouldn't do anything with federal money that you aren't supposed to do, and for me, that would include tithing.

[Anddenex]

Federal aid is a loan, no different than a person pulling out a loan to purchase a home. We don't need to pay tithing on a loan. We pay tithing on our earned income which pays off loans.

However, if you feel you should pay tithing on a loan, then this is your choice.

[Dark_Jedi]

Federal aid is a loan, no different than a person pulling out a loan to purchase a home. We don't need to pay tithing on a loan. We pay tithing on our earned income which pays off loans.

However, if you feel you should pay tithing on a loan, then this is your choice.

I don't think the OP is talking about the loan. I think the question is about federal grants (Pell). The post says there was a loan AND "aid."

[Anddenex]

I don't think the OP is talking about the loan. I think the question is about federal grants (Pell). The post says there was a loan AND "aid."

Hell Dark_Jedi, hope all is well with you. My comment refers to the federal aid and also the loan.

I understood the OP, when using the term Federal Aid, the OP wasn't meaning a pell grant but could be wrong.

The federal aid the OP received appears to still be a loan. Either way, pell grants and loans are not something we need to pay tithing on, otherwise people who purchase a home would have a hefty tithing payment. Imagine these members who have purchased $400K homes, that is $40K in tithing if we need to pay money tithing on loans.

However, I agree with your statement, if the OP feels the need to pay tithing then the OP should do what they feel is right.

[mnn727]

I doubt I would, but that's just because of how colleges and grants work.

But then I am the type that pays tithing on net and then also on my tax return due to how much $ the government wastes and uses on things I don't agree with - and no I don't want to debate that with anyone. God and I agreed on the Net method years ago and I continue to get confirmation of that at tithing settlement each year.

your mileage may vary

[Martain]

If you were on church welfare and the Bishop took your bills and paid them directly for you, would you then pay 10% of what the Bishop paid on your behalf as tithing?

Imagine you needed a car and took out a loan from the bank. Now you'll already be paying tithing on what ever income you gain that will allow you to pay off the debt, in addition to that are you going to pay another 10% of the original loan balance?

In regards to loans and unearned money never seen paid to another entity on your behalf (FAFSA), I'd liken it to the two examples above.

But what about any left over FAFSA funds that are deposited into your checking account? Now you have a choice and must decide if you will pay tithing on the remaining funds that remain at your discretion.

"Bishop, if someone were on church welfare and you deposited $600 into their bank account for rent and groceries would you expect them to pay tithing on the $600 you deposited?"

Perhaps ask your Bishop the question above and use that in relation to your current scenario?

Now even though I say all that, I do want to mention that I don't actually advocate the use of FAFSA funds. Latter-day Prophets have testified that communism is the devil's program and is directly opposite of the Lord's way and program. They've also said that the only real difference between communism and socialism is how such policies are enforced. I see the money used for FAFSA funds as governmental theft with the money stolen from the people via socialistic polices enforcing wealth redistribution. Since I view things in this light, I currently feel that to partake of FAFSA funds is too similar to partaking of the spoils of the Gaddianton robbers for me to do so in the future.

Not that anyone asked my opinion on that subject of course =).

Hope the advice helps~

[velihall]

The First Presidency has said:  "'...one-tenth of all their interest annually,' which is understood to mean income.  No one is justified in making any other statement than this."

So, is a loan income? By no logical measure I can think of since you have to pay it back with interest.  Pell Grant is more tricky since you don't have to pay it back, coupled with the "you are getting this grant for education only and are forbidden to use it for other purposes" sort of idea.  But, I am not justified in making any statement beyond, "your income annually".  Pray and go.  You answer the "are you a full tithe payer" question to the Lord via the bishop.  We would all do well to not justify, but the Lord is pretty smart, and we should try to be as well.  He is also perfectly honest, and we need to do our best to be the same with Him.

Good thing He loves us all - imperfect as we are, eh?

[zil]

Welcome to the forums, @velihall!

[Guest]

On 7/22/2013 at 2:03 AM, wyarwehere said:

Okay, I did a search, and there's a whole bunch of different threads on tithing, but I couldn't find any that answered my question for me, so I'm going to throw it out to all of you lovely peoples.

I'm going back to school in less than a month(it's been a goal for the last six years now) and I'm excited. I got some federal aid, as well as a loan. The loan I got is for a bit more than I need, but it will cover the books and a portion of it will help me invest in a couple new items. I know I can take a portion of it for tithing tho, that's not my issue.

My issue is the tithing on the financial aid. I'm not actually seeing the money, it's being applied to my bill automatically. But do I still have to pay tithing on it? I'm not sure about this, and I don't have the nerve to actually ask anyone in my ward about this--there's only two or three I actually know well enough to even think about asking, and I usually don't talk to anyone about my finances--that's a throwback from mom and dad, it's hard to even talk to the bishop about them when I'm struggling.

Anyways, any help/insight you guys offer would be welcomed. Thanks.

I think you got it backwards (if I understand you correctly).  You don't need to pay tithing on the loan money.  You'll earn additional money in the future to pay that loan off.  You pay tithing on that money you eventually earn, not the loan.

As far as the grant, I'm not sure.  That isn't really a clear one for me.  The reason is that it is a government grant.  If you're getting your schooling subsidized, then it's no different than going to public school (which is subsidized by the government).  I don't know anyone who thinks you should pay tithing on your public schooling.  But this is different because you have a quantity (dollar amount) that you're aware of and not everyone gets the same benefit.  Tough question.

You'll have to pray about that one.  Remember that tithing isn't always about the hard and fast rules.  It's about knowing the will of God.  This may be a test for you.  You need to seek out the Lord on this one.

If Andnenex is correct, and you're saying that the "federal aid" was a type of "loan", then, no.  Don't pay tithing on loans.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Guest

[omegaseamaster75]

On 7/22/2013 at 0:03 AM, wyarwehere said:

I'm going back to school in less than a month(it's been a goal for the last six years now) and I'm excited. I got some federal aid, as well as a loan. The loan I got is for a bit more than I need, but it will cover the books and a portion of it will help me invest in a couple new items. I know I can take a portion of it for tithing tho, that's not my issue.

No need to pay tithing on a loan.

On 7/22/2013 at 0:03 AM, wyarwehere said:

My issue is the tithing on the financial aid. I'm not actually seeing the money, it's being applied to my bill automatically. But do I still have to pay tithing on it? I'm not sure about this, and I don't have the nerve to actually ask anyone in my ward about this--there's only two or three I actually know well enough to even think about asking, and I usually don't talk to anyone about my finances--that's a throwback from mom and dad, it's hard to even talk to the bishop about them when I'm struggling.

No need to pay on financial aid

[JohnsonJones]

Luckily it is in the US.  In some nations, they give their students money and it is a crime if they give it to a church or something unrelated to their education (which makes for an interesting thing if one goes to divinity school I suppose).

Personally, the matter is a personal one.  In theory, one isn't supposed to spend benefits (like welfare, social security insurance, or other things) on items such as tithing, but normally they have nothing to stop people unless they have a fiduciary (in which case the fiduciary is responsible for where the funds go...if a fiduciary paid tithing on one of the people's income...that could occasionally get tricky at best, and they could be charged with criminal charges at worst).

As far as the Pell grant goes, I have never had the question asked me.  I've never dove into someone's personal finances that deeply, and overall I'd say it's as someone pointed above...it's up to you to determine how you answer when you are asked if you are a full tithe payer.

I will mention, in research many professors are expected to get grants.  Tithing is normally NOT one of the items specified when asking for a grant in research, and if I included it, it probably is a one way guarantee to NOT attaining a grant.  Hence, any grant does NOT include tithing being paid on it...at least for a research grant.

NOW...if there is something that is paid out to me, for personal finances, included in such a thing, as it is for my personal usage in that instance, I would pay tithing on it.  However, the money that goes to the university or utilized as the grant is intended in research...I would not pay tithing on that (and in some instances, could not do so on my own finances, with the size of some of those grants and the legality probably being very questionable in that regard).

Another way of looking at it is if it were a tuition scholarship that is paid directly to the school.  In that, if you never see the funds, you could say that you are gaining the education for free, without paying for it yourself. 

NOW, if you feel you must pay tithing on that, despite not having the funds to do so, you could try that and treat it as a loan, but it may take a while to get that tithing paid off.  I get the impression most students in that situation do not pay tithing on scholarships in that manner, but in all honesty...I've never really delved into someone's finances like that to find out, and personally, would rather they decide for themselves than having anything from me on that matter.

Ironically, despite some things I've said on the matter, I tend to pay on my gross income (or the income that goes on the check..etc).  However, when I had scholarships, I personally never paid tithing on them, unless some sort of personal money or fund was included, in which case I paid tithing on whatever spending money they gave me.

And now, undoubtedly, someone probably thinks I'm the gravest of sinners here for not paying tithing on scholarships...

Edited August 25, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[cdowis]

Bottom line ==  you are asking the wrong people.  The correct answer is that you yourself must decide, and the fact that you are asking what is proper, tells me that the Lord will accept whatever answer you will give.

I personally would not pay tithing on it.  Missionaries are exempt from tithing, and  I feel any grants to me for school falls under a similar category.  But that is just me.