Unsanctioned group fasts......Appropriate?


nimrod
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OK. This may be a difficult question to articulate. It is a little nuanced. It is becoming more and more common for members to create a group or 'ward' fast for a specific cause. (ie: neigbhor child has cancer, etc) Sometimes the 'invitation' to participate in the group fast comes from a concerned neighbor, a home teacher, a friend, etc. Kids at school start texting back and forth inviting others to join the fast, people post it on Facebook, etc. I'm wondering if these group fasts are appropriate to start. I can almost hear President Packer or Elder Oaks saying, "The first Sunday of each month is set aside for fasting. This is usually sufficient. Special fasts may also be appropriate from time to time. Families may wish to engage in special fasts from time to time. Bishops or Stake Presidents may organize special fasts as circumstances or emergencies occur."

Thus, while I don't see the bretheren prohibiting these fasts, I wonder if they would (or have) gently suggest that these group or ward fasts should come through proper leadership channels.????

There are soooo many worthy causes in a given ward that could easily warrant a special fast. Does anyone know of any counsel on this subject. (I know as a missionary, we were warned against having special fasts all the time......and my question is similar but more specific to these group fasts that are started by ....well......anyone)

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As long as overweight problems plague many wards (and the church in “western” countries) - I do not think the brethren ought to curtail fasting until too much weight loss or health is threatened because of it. :D

The Traveler

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It would strike me as very odd to suggest that a general request to "please pray for _______" must be supervised/organized/approved by a bishop or other ecclesiastical leader; and I have a hard time figuring out why a request for a fast would be any different than a request for a prayer.

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Elder Joseph B. Worthlin,

"In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, members are encouraged to fast whenever their faith needs special fortification and to fast regularly once each month on fast day."

Group fasts can be started by anyone. If a father of a child who found out that his young son has cancer, it is well within his stewardship to ask others for a special fast in their son's behalf. Why would a bishop or any other leader need to be the one to request a fast?

However, it would make sense, under the bounds of stewardship that people don't use fast and testimony meeting as a spring board to ask the ward to fast. This would be the bishop's place of presiding and stewardship, however using facebook and other methods (i.e. text, phone calls, etc...) are well within the bounds of friends.

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Anyone worried about why or how someone is fasting, or who with, or what someone else weighs, for that matter, needs to rent a crane and work on excavating the beam from their own eye. If you ask me.

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Last year, a good friend in my ward gave birth to a baby girl, who, it turned out, had four holes in her heart. She had open-heart surgery at the age of six weeks, and blessedly survived. She's nearly 18 months now, and doing well. But during those early months, our bishop asked us to participate in a ward fast for the family. It was phrased something like this:

"In two weeks it will be Fast Sunday. As a bishopric, we'd like to ask you to include the [smith] Family in your prayers and fasting that day."

A few years ago, we also had a ward fast for the purposes of growing the youth program in our ward, and strengthening the few youth that we already had. It was again scheduled for a regular Fast Sunday, and was asked to be added to people's personal causes already in place, not to supplant them.

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Nope. I'm not a Stake guy.

This is actually a question posed by a friend. It was more of a..."What is appropriate?" academic discussion.

Just A Guy.... I knew I couldn't artfully ask the question. Of course anyone can ask anyone else to pray or fast for a cause. But is it appropriate for me to organize a ward fast on such and such a day for such and such a cause? This is something beyond just asking some friends or family members. I organize a special fast for Tues. The family down the street organizes one for next Wednesday or Sunday, etc. I guess it is getting to be pretty common in certain wards. Personally, I wonder if the scenarios described by Wingnut is the more appropriate process.....if you are going to include the whole ward or stake.

I might compare it to children bearing their testimony in sacrament meeting. We could all agree that it is great that they are bearing their testimony, thus we should disuade them in any way. However, the brethren have been clear on this. It is not appropriate for children to use the time in sacrament meeting. They may bear their testimony in primary, etc. Several letters from the First Presidency have been read from the pulpit on this. As for my question, I am wondering if there is any guidance.

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Yeah, if you're trying to invoke a "ward" fast, I like Wingnut's procedure.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the "thirty of us fast for one day each, in succession, and we'll call it a month-long fast". I've been in wards where it was done, but it always struck me as a little gimmicky.

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I might compare it to children bearing their testimony in sacrament meeting. We could all agree that it is great that they are bearing their testimony, thus we should disuade them in any way. However, the brethren have been clear on this. It is not appropriate for children to use the time in sacrament meeting. They may bear their testimony in primary, etc. Several letters from the First Presidency have been read from the pulpit on this. As for my question, I am wondering if there is any guidance.

To be clear the letter from the First Presidency didn't exclude children, save children who are unable to bear their testimony on their own without the assistance from the parents. These parents and children have been asked to bear their testimony in primary or during family home until they are able to bear testimony on their own.

If a primary child is able to share a thoughtful testimony without parental assistance, they are welcome to come up and share it.

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Yeah, if you're trying to invoke a "ward" fast, I like Wingnut's procedure.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the "thirty of us fast for one day each, in succession, and we'll call it a month-long fast". I've been in wards where it was done, but it always struck me as a little gimmicky.

Exactly. Another friend (these are actually co-workers) brought up this scenario. He said the fasts he has seen has been for "forty days", presumably reminiscent of Noah and Jesus. I said the same thing as you.....gimicky. I don't feel right participating in such things.....but its hard to explain to those that do and you usually come across as uncaring, etc.

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Exactly. Another friend (these are actually co-workers) brought up this scenario. He said the fasts he has seen has been for "forty days", presumably reminiscent of Noah and Jesus. I said the same thing as you.....gimicky. I don't feel right participating in such things.....but its hard to explain to those that do and you usually come across as uncaring, etc.

You can thank them for the invitation and tell them you'll make sure to include their purpose next time you fast. This of course assumes it is the gimmicky nature you don't feel right participating in rather than the purpose itself.

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Yeah, if you're trying to invoke a "ward" fast, I like Wingnut's procedure.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the "thirty of us fast for one day each, in succession, and we'll call it a month-long fast". I've been in wards where it was done, but it always struck me as a little gimmicky.

I participated in one of these once as a missionary. It was dubbed a "forty day fast" and the end goal was families prepared to accept the Gospel. As a missionary, it was exhilarating and inspiring.

When my bishop had our ward do it every year for three or four in a row, it got old really quick, particularly when families on the ward council (both my husband and I were on it for over a year) were asked to sign up for two or three days, since no one else in the ward was filling spots.

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Why did Christ tell his apostles that they couldn't cast out demons until they "had fasted and prayed"?

Why must we be commanded in all things, the same being a slothful servant?

If anyone tells you, you cannot fast or pray, they are preaching false doctrine, and a damning doctrine. Why in Alma did they gain power AFTER prayer and fasting?

Why is prayer and fasting normally mentioned together in the book of mormon?

Alma 6:6 Nevertheless the children of God were commanded that they should gather themselves together oft, and join in fasting and mighty prayer in behalf of the welfare of the souls of those who knew not God.

Alma 17:9 And it came to pass that they journeyed many days in the wilderness, and they fasted much and prayed much that the Lord would grant unto them a portion of his Spirit to go with them, and abide with them, that they might be an instrument in the hands of God to bring, if it were possible, their brethren, the Lamanites, to the knowledge of the truth, to the knowledge of the baseness of the traditions of their fathers, which were not correct.

45:1 Behold, now it came to pass that the people of Nephi were exceedingly rejoiced, because the Lord had again delivered them out of the hands of their enemies; therefore they gave thanks unto the Lord their God; yea, and they did fast much and pray much, and they did worship God with exceedingly great joy.

Read Isaiah 56; 58. The first chapters tells us how and why to fast. It states their solemn assemblies (meetings, back in chapter 1 or 2) are wicked and tells us why in these chapters (56, 58). Than it tells us how to make them right before God which I think is 58. My chapters may be off, sorry if they are. Didn't look them up.

58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.

4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.

9 Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:

11 And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

These corss references will help. Isaiah 1:13; Isaiah 56:2; Isaiah 56:4; Isaiah 56:6; Isaiah 58:13; Isaiah 66:23 - New American Standard - NAS - Online Bible Study

Go to this link and read the commentary. It will answer the last question. Also with chapter 56, and probably 1/2.. If time the entire book :)

Analysis of Isaiah 58 by Hebrew Scholar Avraham Gileadi Ph.D.

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  • 2 weeks later...

To be clear the letter from the First Presidency didn't exclude children, save children who are unable to bear their testimony on their own without the assistance from the parents. These parents and children have been asked to bear their testimony in primary or during family home until they are able to bear testimony on their own.

If a primary child is able to share a thoughtful testimony without parental assistance, they are welcome to come up and share it.

We have at least 3-4 of these every fast Sunday. It's cute and annoying. We also have the same sibling duo come up every month- without fail. The older sister is all of 5 and whispers to her younger brother what to say. They are darling kids and all but the parents didn't put a stop to it, even after the letter was read. Just have to wonder what the thought process is in the parent's heads.

In reference to the OP, I think when there is a need for a special fast, families should contact family members and close friends only. If the bishop feels it necessary to ask for a ward fast, that's appropriate. But I don't like the idea of being asked to fast for someone I don't know who is the sister-in-law of my friends mother-in-law. In those cases I sometimes will call the temple and put their name on the role instead.

Edited by carlimac
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It is never inappropriate for members to organize a fast among themselves. I would hope that members of a ward would feel close enough to each other that they could readily ask each other to fast for a particular need or purpose.

However, I do feel that members should only be asking people they have good relationships with. I don't believe that effect of fasting is intensified by having more people do it unless those more people are committed to and invested in the purpose. Recruiting strangers doesn't accomplish this.

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It is my belief that we can fast as often as the need arises. The righteous Nephites and Lamanites united often to fast and for many different occasions. The fact that the church has a single day set aside should not mean that it is enough. It is not. But imagine if there was no Fast Sunday set aside. I think fewer members would fast on their own. It seems we must be commanded in all things because more often than not, we just don't do it on our own. I think it is great that members unite to fast for and behalf of others. This, to me, provided our hearts are pure, is what Zion is all about.

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We have at least 3-4 of these every fast Sunday. It's cute and annoying. We also have the same sibling duo come up every month- without fail. The older sister is all of 5 and whispers to her younger brother what to say. They are darling kids and all but the parents didn't put a stop to it, even after the letter was read. Just have to wonder what the thought process is in the parent's heads.

Yep, and I wonder the same thing.

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OK. This may be a difficult question to articulate. It is a little nuanced. It is becoming more and more common for members to create a group or 'ward' fast for a specific cause. (ie: neigbhor child has cancer, etc) Sometimes the 'invitation' to participate in the group fast comes from a concerned neighbor, a home teacher, a friend, etc. Kids at school start texting back and forth inviting others to join the fast, people post it on Facebook, etc. I'm wondering if these group fasts are appropriate to start. I can almost hear President Packer or Elder Oaks saying, "The first Sunday of each month is set aside for fasting. This is usually sufficient. Special fasts may also be appropriate from time to time. Families may wish to engage in special fasts from time to time. Bishops or Stake Presidents may organize special fasts as circumstances or emergencies occur."

Thus, while I don't see the bretheren prohibiting these fasts, I wonder if they would (or have) gently suggest that these group or ward fasts should come through proper leadership channels.????

There are soooo many worthy causes in a given ward that could easily warrant a special fast. Does anyone know of any counsel on this subject. (I know as a missionary, we were warned against having special fasts all the time......and my question is similar but more specific to these group fasts that are started by ....well......anyone)

as long as they are putting Christ first, and are being reverent about it I find nothing about starting a fast and inviting others into it inappropriate. I think we need to this sort of thing a little more than what we do.

However if it starts turning into more of a social event rather than focusing on Christ and bringing blessings to individuals. then ya that's starting to cross a line there that it shouldn't.

Also is Kind of hard to say what is important and what isn't.. I think maybe mentioning this to the bishop or stake president and then leaving it at that might be the best course on the physical side of things if you think its getting out of hand.

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