The Holy Ghost


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Of all that we understand of the G-dhead (G-d) I find the Holy Ghost the most mysterious and difficult to understand. As near as I can determine - even from the LDS point of view - there is no information concerning the Holy Ghost in the pre-existance. I do not see any roll of the Holy Ghost in the creation and of particular interest to me - I do not see the Holy Ghost even playing a prominent roll anywhere in the Old Testament. Even in the New Testament I do not see the Holy Ghost playing a prominent and necessary roll in the quest of salvation.

Only from modern LDS scriptures of the restoration do I see anything that appears to me to be that significant concerning an actual need for the Holy Ghost in order for man to find salvation and eternal life. And even at that - the information seems rather sketchy. There also seem to be a great deal of speculation in LDS (and other) circles concerning the Holy Ghost ever receiving a body. The most popular speculation is that perhaps at the end of the end of the world he would be given a body. But I have speculated that the term "Ghost" rather than spirit may indicate that this member of the G-dhead has already completed the probation of physical mortality and is awaiting the resurrection to complete their G-dly mission. But that is pure unfounded speculation.

So I thought I would open a thread to sift through what we have concerning the Holy Ghost and discuss what we know from what we believe and what we speculate.

What then have you learned and what do you believe concerning the Holy Ghost?

The Traveler

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I had never thought that the Holy Ghost could have completed his probationary state but would think that if he did at one time have a body, during that time he would not have been able to function as the Holy Ghost because that position seems to require someone without a body to perform it. I would think that the Holy Ghost will remain without a body until such time as he no longer needs to dwell within us as D&C 130:22 states or perform any other action that can only be done by a spirit. I wonder if we will still need him to dwell in us after judgment day. My thinking is that once every single person is assigned to a degree of glory then that may be the time He gets a body if He ever does.

One thing that comes to my mind is that wither mentioned or not by scripture from what I have understood, the Holy Ghost is instrumental in the conversion process of everyone that follows Jesus and also He is often involved when prayers are answered. And so I would say He has always had a prominent role even if such is not clear from scriptures.

Also I believe that many (if not all) of the advances made throughout time has been due to in part inspiration from the Holy Ghost.

I haven't put much thought into what did the Holy Ghost do during the pre-existance. And I am wondering if any of the scriptures do indicate his role. Could he have been known by a name other than the Holy Ghost in the pre-existance?

I found this link which quotes Joseph Smith saying "the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body."

The Restoration of Major Doctrines through Joseph Smith: The Godhead, Mankind, and the Creation - Ensign Jan. 1989 - ensign

Edited by ZionsRodeVos
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I had never thought that the Holy Ghost could have completed his probationary state but would think that if he did at one time have a body, during that time he would not have been able to function as the Holy Ghost because that position seems to require someone without a body to perform it. I would think that the Holy Ghost will remain without a body until such time as he no longer needs to dwell within us as D&C 130:22 states or perform any other action that can only be done by a spirit. I wonder if we will still need him to dwell in us after judgment day. My thinking is that once every single person is assigned to a degree of glory then that may be the time He gets a body if He ever does.

One thing that comes to my mind is that wither mentioned or not by scripture from what I have understood, the Holy Ghost is instrumental in the conversion process of everyone that follows Jesus and also He is often involved when prayers are answered. And so I would say He has always had a prominent role even if such is not clear from scriptures.

Also I believe that many (if not all) of the advances made throughout time has been due to in part inspiration from the Holy Ghost.

I haven't put much thought into what did the Holy Ghost do during the pre-existance. And I am wondering if any of the scriptures do indicate his role. Could he have been known by a name other than the Holy Ghost in the pre-existance?

I found this link which quotes Joseph Smith saying "the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body."

The Restoration of Major Doctrines through Joseph Smith: The Godhead, Mankind, and the Creation - Ensign Jan. 1989 - ensign

Thank you for your response and input. Outside of LDS scriptures (Moses) there is no record of the Holy Ghost in Old Testament times and with LDS scripture I find no record of the Holy Ghost in the pre-existance.

The link of Joseph saying "the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body." -- in essence, leaves two options or possibilities: that we are presented in LDS theology that define spirits waiting for a body. One is the spirits that have not been born into mortal existence. The second option are the spirits having departed from their mortal bodies waiting for the resurrection. I can personally see the logic that the Holy Ghost ought to possess the knowledge that come from having experienced a physical body and that he is not waiting for a mortal and then an eternal body.

As near as I can determine there is no revelation that tells us for sure the nature of the Holy Ghost. I put forth the possibility that he has had a body for two reasons - First is because he has the title of Ghost rather than spirit. However, I really do not know if there is any reason or significance to the title of Ghost. The second reason is because the possibility of him having completed mortality really is not considered in any LDS discussions that I am aware of. It seems that revelation in such matters are not given when there is no inquire. That is why I question.

In general there is in my mind surprisingly little known concerning the Holy Ghost. I find this rather odd since Christians include the Holy Ghost in their doctrine and worship of G-d. For many years I have personally sought more information and though I have had many thoughts there is precious little I feel as information beyond speculation or inspired speculation (if there even is such a thing).

I have yet to talk to anyone of religious stripe other than LDS that seems to even care that much that there is a Holy Ghost except that he is mentioned in scripture and a possibility that the nature for such a person is necessary to complete the G-dhead - but for reasons that no one (outside of LDS circles) seems to be able to articulate -- Why?

The Traveler

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I've considered this topic periodically for several years myself... Its likely one of those things that is currently beyond our mortal understanding, rather, the understanding that our physical selves can understand, which is what I've chalked it up to for the time being. However, I'm rather flexible in such things, so I continue to consider it from time to time...

The only other conjecture that I might add to the discussion at this point is that personally, if the Holy Ghost had not yet had his mortal experience, seemingly the most appropriate time for him to accomplish that would be during the Millennium when Lucifer and his cohorts will be bound.

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I was thinking about this more and wondering why there is no scripture telling us if the Holy Ghost has lived here in mortality already or when He will get a body. The only thing that came to my mind is that it must not be important to our salvation to know when he gets/got his body.

I took the statement by Joseph Smith to mean that the Holy Ghost has not yet had a mortal body. But I can see how it could be interpreted as He is waiting to receive his perfect body.

I agree that if He has not received a body yet then during the millenium could be a good time for him to get one, if his mission as just a spirit would be over. But will not Satan be loosed again for a short time after the millenium. If so, I would think the Holy Ghost still needs to be a spirit.

I thought about this more as to how the scriptures talk about the Holy Ghost and I think that there are enough references in the New Testament that talk about the Holy Ghost to be able to say the saints then new the importance and role of the Holy Ghost.

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While mortal man cannot understand who the Holy Ghost is our spirit can. I believe it is not generally revealed because so many would reject the truth. But that is not to say we shouldn't seek it. We must understand each member of the Godhead, including the Holy Ghost, or we do not understand ourselves. The spirit will reveal the truth of the matter to those who diligently seek to know.

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Both valid points. I was merely broaching the possibility. Deeper thinking and consideration is something I enjoy, and enjoy sharing! :D There are so many things in the Church that we simply can't wrap our minds around.

I read a great story recently, and if I recall correctly it was told by President Packer. It was about President McKay, and that they were having a meeting in the Celestial Room of the Salt Lake Temple. President McKay entered the room last, and was softly, as if to himself, repeating the words in the Endowment ceremony. All the Authorities in the room listened silently as he recited the words. As he finished, he chuckled softly, looked skyward and said "I'm *finally* beginning to understand." President McKay had been an apostle for roughly 60 years at this time. We ALL have a lot to learn!!!

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Ghost - An apparition of a dead person that is believed to appear or become manifest to the living, typically as a nebulous image.

I have aspired to the belief that the third member of the Godhead has previously experienced a successful mortal life and is currently in training as preparation for a test similar to that of Jesus Christ.

It is obvious to me that the Holy Ghost is much further along the plan of exaltation that we are.

I suspect that Elohim is the Holy Ghost's sire. But I'm unsure. He could be more like a nephew than a son.

I do think that the Holy Ghost is male and a single personage.

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DC 130:5 states that every being who has ministered on this earth will become an inhabitant of the Earth. This would definitely apply to the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost will receive a body - or he may already have.

His works are silent in our current understanding of the pre existence, but was likely one of our dearly beloved leaders. A brother, Akin to Jesus Christ (Jehovah). Known and beloved by all.

I also find it interesting that Neither the Father, nor the Son, Nor the Holy Ghost appeared to play any role in the War in Heaven. First of all, God the Father would never fight a war (It would be over in a flash) It was Michael, not Christ who led the hosts against the dragon. The implication of this are that Elohim Directed Michael to fight, but it seems odd that he would not simply put a stop to the war. Neither the Holy Ghost nor Christ appeared to have a role in this either.

Sorry, this may have hijacked the thread, but I have never heard or read anyone addressing these rather interesting tidbits. The Pre Existence has yet many mysteries for us.

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I also find it interesting that Neither the Father, nor the Son, Nor the Holy Ghost appeared to play any role in the War in Heaven. First of all, God the Father would never fight a war (It would be over in a flash) It was Michael, not Christ who led the hosts against the dragon. The implication of this are that Elohim Directed Michael to fight, but it seems odd that he would not simply put a stop to the war. Neither the Holy Ghost nor Christ appeared to have a role in this either.

Elohim might have stopped the war unless there was a purpose in it. Perhaps Michael and the angels who fought with him had to learn how to cast Satan out before it became heaven.
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I also find it interesting that Neither the Father, nor the Son, Nor the Holy Ghost appeared to play any role in the War in Heaven.

Well, if you knew the kids weren't really going to kill or permanently maim each other, (and had the ability to fix any damage they did) standing back and letting them fight it out wouldn't always be such a bad solution.

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Wouldn't it be cool if we eventually found out that the Holy Ghost was really our Heavenly Mother? It would make perfect sense to me. But that's something we just won't ever know in this life.

But I guess the thought that shoots down that theory is that if God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, He's probably not married to a spirit.

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I have aspired to the belief that the third member of the Godhead has previously experienced a successful mortal life and is currently in training as preparation for a test similar to that of Jesus Christ.

The issue I see with that is:

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

Unless we are supposing that while he's lived a mortal life he hasn't been resurrected yet. There is still the issue though that if he is to experience a test similar to Christ's, and he's already lived a mortal life, that he'd have to be reincarnated into another mortal body to experience something similar to what Christ did.

Edit: I'm not saying these are the only possible objections, they're just what come to mind first.

Edited by Dravin
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My belief is that the Holy Ghost is not one particular person/being, but is the title of the third member of the Godhead. I believe this was once held by Michael/Adam, as a training position for his work on earth. When Michael came to earth, he was replaced by others, such as Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. It is possible that Joseph Smith once served in the role of Holy Ghost, as well.

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james123, I agree 100%.

Further here are some quotes for others:

“When a man has the manifestation from the Holy Ghost, it leaves an indelible impression on his soul, one that is not easily erased. It is Spirit speaking to spirit, and it comes with convincing force. A manifestation of an angel, or even of the Son of God himself, would impress the eye and mind, and eventually become dimmed, but the impressions of the Holy Ghost sink deeper into the soul and are more difficult to erase” (Answers to Gospel Questions, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., 5 vols. [1957–66], 2:151).

President Smith also said, “Through the Holy Ghost the truth is woven into the very fibre and sinews of the body so that it cannot be forgotten” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 1:48). (Gospel Principles, Chapter 7: The Holy Ghost)

What does it mean to "receive the holy ghost"?

"The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence" (Joseph Smith, HC 5:261)

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Its no wonder why the spirit cannot dwell in unholy temples. This helps us understand the meaning of the temple (building) a little bit more powerfully in our lives.

Finally two more quotes for now and I think I have said enough.

Lectures on Faith #5.

There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things--by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space--They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;--he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh--and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be.

But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins. And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father-possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all--the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father--possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father--a Mediator for man--being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. (Lecture 5, Paragraph 2.)

" ... There is one revelation that this people are not generally acquainted with. I think it has never been published, but probably it will be in the Church History. It is given in questions and answers. The first question is, "WHAT IS THE NAME OF GOD IN THE PURE LANGUAGE?" THE ANSWER SAYS "AHMAN." "WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD?" ANSWER, "SON AHMAN-THE GREATEST OF ALL THE PARTS OF GOD EXCEPTING AHMAN." "WHAT IS THE NAME OF MEN?" "SONS AHMAN," IS THE ANSWER. "What is the name of angels in the pure language?" "Anglo-man." THIS REVELATION GOES ON TO SAY THAT SONS AHMAN ARE THE GREATEST OF ALL THE PARTS OF GOD EXCEPTING SON AHMAN AND AHMAN, and that Anglo-man are the greatest of all the parts of God excepting Sons Ahman, Son Ahman, and Ahman, showing that the angels are a little lower than man. What is the conclusion to be drawn from this? It is, that THESE INTELLIGENT BEINGS ARE ALL PARTS OF GOD, AND THAT THOSE WHO HAVE THE MOST OF THE PARTS OF GOD ARE THE GREATEST, OR NEXT TO GOD, AND THOSE WHO HAVE THE NEXT GREATEST PORTIONS OF THE PARTS OF GOD, ARE THE NEXT GREATEST, OR NEAREST TO THE FULNESS OF GOD; AND SO WE MIGHT GO ON TO TRACE THE SCALE OF INTELLIGENCES FROM THE HIGHEST TO THE LOWEST, tracing the parts and portions of God so far as we are made acquainted with them. HENCE WE SEE THAT WHEREVER A GREAT AMOUNT OF THIS INTELLIGENT SPIRIT EXISTS, THERE IS A GREAT AMOUNT OR PROPORTION OF GOD, WHICH MAY GROW AND INCREASE UNTIL THERE IS A FULNESS OF THIS SPIRIT, AND THEN THERE IS A FULNESS OF GOD." (Orson Pratt, 1855, Journal of Discourses Vol 2, page 340)

I'll end with what someone else stated already.

Joseph Smith

I want to let you know that THE HOLY GHOST KNOWS SOMETHING AS WELL AS YOU DO. ... But I am learned, and know more than all the world put together. THE HOLY GHOST DOES, ANYHOW; AND HE IS WITHIN ME, and comprehends more than all the world; and I WILL ASSOCIATE MYSELF WITH HIM. JD6:5

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The Institute manual for the class Doctrines of the Gospel has an excellent lesson on the Holy Ghost, and its role in our lives. I would not say it answers everything, but there are excellent comments from the brethren on the subject and it is well worth some time studying and pondering:

(sorry, the link is not working tonight - try it later from here)

Google

Edited by dimbulbz
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I think this is a fantastic idea to compile what we know of the holy ghost as an internet community. I have been wanting to reply here for a few days now, but could not find what I was looking for in my remaining books.

I was somewhat confident that I had read that the holy ghost was definitively a pre-mortal being. However, now as far as I can tell the only answers we have are speculation.

Thus I am left with the following personal conclusions based on the evidence.

The holy ghost is a personage of spirit. I believe this wording to be important as it indicates to me a singular personage of spirit and not an office held by many different individuals over time.

The Holy Ghost was performing His role at the time of Adam (moses 5:9) which is significant to me because the scriptures are clear that Adam was the 1st man the ancient of days. So unless the Holy ghost was sent down for a quick bout in mortality during a time of apostasy or was a still-born it seems most likely He is still premortal.

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Ponder this.

"The Holy Ghost is now [1843] in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843 Reported by Franklin D. Richards.)

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Taken from the Doctrines of the Gospel Institute manual:

1.

The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and possesses all the characteristics of a divine personality (see D&C 130:22; 1 Nephi 11:11).

2.

The Holy Ghost knows all things (see D&C 35:19; Moroni 10:5; Moses 6:61).

“The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a Spirit, in the form of a man. … The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, and has a spirit body only. His mission is to bear witness of the Father and the Son and of all truth.

“As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the same time. He is also called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Truth, and the Comforter” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:38).

“The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence” (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 276).

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....

“As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the same time. He is also called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Truth, and the Comforter” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:38).

...

A thought to consider. As a physical and mortal individual we have size and dimensions in 3 dimensional space - we are in essence 3 dimensional creatures. However, if a spirit is not a creature of 3 dimensional space - they could still have size and dimensions - even dimensions the we could observe in 3 dimensional space. But they would also have the ability to do things that would seem inconsistent with 3 dimensional space - for example appear or seem to be in more places than one in 3 dimensional space.

The Traveler

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A thought to consider. As a physical and mortal individual we have size and dimensions in 3 dimensional space - we are in essence 3 dimensional creatures. However, if a spirit is not a creature of 3 dimensional space - they could still have size and dimensions - even dimensions the we could observe in 3 dimensional space. But they would also have the ability to do things that would seem inconsistent with 3 dimensional space - for example appear or seem to be in more places than one in 3 dimensional space.

The Traveler

You read Flatland while dozing off one night too?

Seems to cause interesting and very educational dreams.

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Hidden

My belief is that the Holy Ghost is not one particular person/being, but is the title of the third member of the Godhead. I believe this was once held by Michael/Adam, as a training position for his work on earth. When Michael came to earth, he was replaced by others, such as Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. It is possible that Joseph Smith once served in the role of Holy Ghost, as well.

Interesting though. Who was he before Michael/Adam then?

9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.

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