Forgiveness/Ignoring Warning Signs

[myhousemd]

I've been on this site before, but can't remember my username or the email I used. I haven't had internet access for a while.

I am considering divorce. Actually, I filed for divorce a month and a half ago, but my bishop guilted me into annulling it by saying that I wasn't listening to God because I wouldn't forgive my husband for two years of addiction, neglect, and general irresponsibility. I had become his mother, and still feel that way pretty often. My husband sold his video games, installed internet monitoring software on his laptop and phone, and promised to start looking for jobs on a regular basis. Well, he was only looking at and applying to a few jobs each week. I confronted him about it, and he insisted he did more than the monitoring software tracked b/c he had used my laptop. I changed the password on my laptop, and he miraculously found a job a week later. Just a few days ago, he stated that he didn't want to sell his Nintendo DS and Zelda for Wii because of sentimental reasons. He has also convinced the friend to whom he sold his other games and systems to give a few games back. Now, these things are significant because our relationship has been an almost monthly rollercoaster of me telling him I want out of the marriage, him promising to change, and then his changes fading after a week or so. This, and other lies, has led to a complete breakdown of trust.

Now, a new-ish problem in the relationship is that he has accused me of being untrustworthy, but his only reasons are that I hang out with my friends w/o him and that I tried to commit suicide. (I tried to commit suicide b/c of pressure from some friends and bishop to stay in such a miserable marriage.) It also seems important to note that the only person I have been able to develop a friendship with in the two years of being married is a guy, who shall be called Bob. It is also important to note that Bob has Asperger's, which really negates any chance of an emotional (much less physical!) affair. I've also always had more guy friends, for whatever reason. Bob and my husband don't like each other, largely due to the tension that my husband creates whenever I would try to hang out with the both of them. Thus, I hang out with Bob w/o my husband. Just a few days ago I also befriended a girl, who shall be called Laura, who is also besties with Bob. In fact, I hadn't hung out w/ Bob for weeks b/c I was trying to do as my bishop said and work on the marriage, which meant trying not to piss of my husband by hanging out w/ anyone other than him. In the past, he has been jealous of my friends (names changed) Annie, Jake, Nancy, and Erin. Whenever I want to invite someone over to spend time w/ Mark and I, he rejects it or asks pissy and admits that he feels like I don't want to spend time with him. Well, the truth is that I don't. I am tired of being forced to be alone or spend time with a man who I neither respect, trust, nor love.

The Bishop keeps emphasizing forgiveness. As my husband's behavior becomes more controlling, and seems to be turning back to some of his addictions, I am wondering where the line lies b/t forgiving someone for their actions and ignoring the warning signs of an abusive/toxic relationship. I feel as though i ignored those signs while I was dating my husband b/c I chose to trust what he said over what our friends were saying. I have discovered over the past two years that much of what he claimed back then was a lie. We aren't sealed, and as I am getting my endowments soon I realize that I absolutely dread being sealed to my husband.

So, what are your thoughts on where the line lies between forgiveness and ignoring serious warning signs in a marriage? (Mind you, I haven't given an exhaustive list of the problems in my marriage, just a few examples.)

[Guest]

I just taught this lesson in Relief Society last week. Working on a marriage to "become one" is accomplished by getting closer to God. If you're not doing that, then getting divorced is not going to do you much good. Forgiveness is getting closer to God.

But, if you feel that the only way you can get closer to God is if you divorce him (forgiveness is still needed even if you decide to divorce him), then get divorced.

Hopefully you don't have kids.

[Lakumi]

some people with aspergers have a sex drive... but yeah emotionally we are often dead inside... or just don't know how to relate to anyone- I describe it as being stuck in a cage, but it's in my own head.

[NeuroTypical]

Got kids?

(I mean, besides the one you married...)

[Quin]

I'm imagining the following conversation with anyone NOT your bishop in leadership

"I would rather die than be in this marriage"

"You say that, but I'm sure you don't really mean-"

"I tried to kill myself in February"

"Let's get you a good divorce attorney."

...

Sweetheart. You throw up a bunch of other information and all, but lets break it down. You. Tried. To. Kill. Yourself.

That's not a warning sign. That's bursting through all the warning signs, breaking through the guard rail, and hurtling over the edge of a cliff.

1) Get in counseling IMMEDIATELY if you aren't already

2) Divorce BEFORE Death.

Do NOT die to save your marriage.

Period.

That's not saving it.

That's dying.

That's death.

That's waaaaaaaay worse than divorce.

That's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

He doesn't have to be a bad person for divorce to be okay.

He could be Mother Theresa cum Ghandi cum Santa.

You don't need to come up with 1001 reasons to go. And you "can't" divorce unless you meet them all. So you might as well end your life since you "can't" end your marriage.

Your life is worth more than that.

Now. Could this be chronic depression, bipolar disorder, any of 50 neurological conditions that once you treat you'll be back in love/ have respect for/ etc.? Yep. Hence the counseling. Seperate. Get counseling. If you have a condition treat it.

But do NOT put yourself in a position where you think your only avenue of getting out of your marriage is by ending your life. We live in a country where both men and women have the right to divorce or separate. They don't have to die.

Q

[rameumptom]

Having children would be a big deal to consider. If you don't have any, then you have a decision to make, without the bishop's guilting you. It is your choice to make, not his. He can guide and counsel, but he is not an expert in marital issues. I would suggest you have a fast, and ask the Lord what His will is in regards to your marriage.

As it is, it would be one thing if your husband was making positive changes. It is silly to remain in a relationship, where he refuses to handle his responsibilities in the marriage.

[myhousemd]

No kids. I have intentionally not had kids because I don't want to drag them into such an unhealthy family situation. I also read a scripture this morning in 1 Tim, which said that a man who doesn't support his wife/family is worse than an infidel. Also, some general conference talk mentioned that those in marriages where the spouse refuses to take responsibility know of circumstances "worse than divorce". It's funny how I finally found the scriptures I've been needing the past two years, and your opinions seem to align perfectly with what I've been thinking and what my mother and friends have been saying.

[Elegreen]

Do you know what specific talk this was. I am in a very similar situation, and i would love to read it. This would really help! :) anyone else can recommend a talk to.

[Bini]

If the thought of being sealed to this man physically makes you ill (that's what it sounded like) then I would say that the decision has already been made and you should follow through with it. To continue something just cause isn't healthy for you or him.

[Dark_Jedi]

I am not a huge fan of counseling and usually wouldn't recommend it. Have you had counseling? Real, professional counseling, not bishop counseling. Can you get the bishop to refer you to LDS Family Services or can you find that info on your own (it's on LDS.org)?

You have presented a very sad side to a story, and suicide, or even contemplating it, is not to be taken lightly - but it's not the answer, either.

Please, get counseling.

[Maureen]

I am not a huge fan of counseling and usually wouldn't recommend it......

Please, get counseling.

Dark_Jedi, I'm curious as to why you are not a fan of counseling.

M.

[Misshalfway]

You've touched on one of my pet peeves. I hate it when we equate forgiveness with staying in a relationship. And I hate it when we equate forgiveness with trust. I can forgive someone for a variety of wrongs but that doesn't mean I trust them. It doesn't mean I share my money or my feelings or my bed with them. It just means I let go of the grievance and I move on. For heavens sake, I can forgive and still say no!

This situation is so hard. LDS theology and all the human attitudes that go with it makes pragmatic life decisions difficult. But, you just gotta know that no LDS bishop will ever recommend divorce. So if you are looking for the institution to give you permission, you aren't going to get it.

A few years ago, I thought seriously about divorce. I prayed hard and went to various priesthood leaders looking for counsel that would set me free from what felt like an impossible situation. Most of my interviews were unsatisfying. I got similar answers about forgiveness and was often judged rather than supported. It was a very discouraging process. But I'm actually glad that Bishop didn't solve the thing for me. I needed to learn not to give others the responsibility for solving my problems for me.

I also learned that God wasn't going to do my work for me either. Dang it! He did answer. But to my dismay he didn't command either way. He gave the decision back to me offering comfort that he would support me either way according to what I thought was best. I panicked at first and frankly I was kinda angry at Him for not clarifying either way. I was like "really?!? the most powerful being in the universe who can see all time can't tell me what's best for me?!? Outrage!" The truth was, I didn't want the responsibility of such a weighty decision and I was trapped by my feelings of guilt and fear. Of course, I wasn't going to admit to that. Blaming everyone was much easier.

You sound like a good woman who wants to do the right thing, and one who also wants a satisfying marriage too! But it sounds like you haven't figured out how to take responsibility for your own happiness and safety yet. You've tried everything you know how in order to produce some change. You've sought counsel, you've confronted the dysfunction, and my guess is that somewhere in a secret place inside of you, you hoped your husband would see the severity of your sufferings and that it would compel him to save the situation. None of it worked, did it?

I couldn't know what the right decision is. But I do know that earth life rarely goes right and for many of us the road through it is a nasty, curvy beast! God knows this. Yeah, He cares about marriage and commitment and all that. But I think he cares about the safety and happiness of his little girls too. (and the little boys. )

Make a decision and then trust yourself, sweetheart. You know inside what is best. I know you do! And in that trust, take it to God and see what he says. Then take up your sword, or flag, or girl power, or whatever metaphor works for you and follow through. If you are lucky enough to get a command, then your next step is the courage to follow it. If God allows you the choice, your next step is the courage to make one. :) At the end of the day, we have to act in our own best self interest. This is the essence of agency. We can't wait for others to do it for us. Sometimes people save us and boy we're grateful. But sometimes we just have to do the saving ourselves.

Blessings and strength to you.

[Dark_Jedi]

Dark_Jedi, I'm curious as to why you are not a fan of counseling.

M.

Generally speaking I think it's a waste of time and effort and generally speaking, cunselors prey on the weak and weak minded. Just my opinion.

[Misshalfway]

Generally speaking I think it's a waste of time and effort and generally speaking, cunselors prey on the weak and weak minded. Just my opinion.

Sounds like you've had some yucky experiences.

[yjacket]

I hope you will find the answer and solution you are looking for.

Before you sign the divorce (but even if you do), I would highly recommend the book :Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples, 20th Anniversary Edition: Harville Hendrix: 9780805087000: Amazon.com: Books

Trying to commit suicide is not a normal, healthy action. It is a plea for help, from whoever you know.

There is a reason, subconsciously that you married your husband, if you do not understand yourself, the underlying subconscious reasons you married him, your own potential growth and in overcoming the wounds of the past then you will be doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

Conflict is growth trying to happen.

I promise you that the Atonement can and will help you. The Atonement is not just about forgiveness. It is At-one-ment, at one with God, with yourself, with the world.

[Misshalfway]

Let me know what you think.

Hmm. I like that! :)

[Misshalfway]

Conflict is growth trying to happen.

I like that!! :)