Gospel Principles

[serapha]

for those that agreed to a discussion on the Gospel Principles, the first reference was to read the First Article of Faith

Page 306, First Article of Faith

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Then, I have my first question.

Page 9

"God is the one supreme and absolute being in whom we believe and whom we sorship. He is the Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things."

1. Is Jesus God?

2. Do you worship Jesus?

Page 9

"Because we are made in his image ... we know that God has a body that looks like ours."

"His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones" (D& C 130:22)

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

1. Who is God?

2. Or maybe, what is God?

3. Doctrine #130 came into being in April 1843, right? So what was the description of God before this time, and what happened to change the personage of God into a human body of flesh and bones?

"Everything that he does is to help his cildren become like him--a god."

1. Is that to be taken that the CoJCoLDS's teaches that you may be like god.

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

2. Is man made in the image of God or in the likeness of God. Which is to be taken to be "like him" in the above statement?

page 10

"By keeping his commandment we can become like him."

1. Please explain that the text means. How is keeping God's commandments causing one to be like God.

2. Is this "God" ... the Heavenly Father?

3. BTW... the commandments of God are different than the commandments of Jesus (Matthew 23:37) There are at least six words for commandments in the Bible, two in Hebrew and four in Greek. Each word relates a different type of commandment, therefore the commandments of God and the commandments of Christ, and the commandments of the apostles, etc are all identified by different words.. but that also identifies that the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus are different because different word meanings are used and implied.

Page 10

"We can know God if we will--- 3. Pray to him"

"as we do these thing, we will come to now God and eventually have eternal life"

1. Do you believe that God only hears the prayers of repentant sinners?

2. If so, why doesn't John 3:16 apply to give the believer eternal life.

Well, there's questions for starters.

~thanks~

~serapha~

[Guest Starsky]

for those that agreed to a discussion on the Gospel Principles, the first reference was to read the First Article of Faith

Page 306, First Article of Faith

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Then, I have my first question.

Page 9

"God is the one supreme and absolute being in whom we believe and whom we sorship. He is the Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things."

1. Is Jesus God?

2. Do you worship Jesus?

yes....ever read the Book of Mormon?

2 Ne. 11: 7

7 For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and che is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

Page 9

"Because we are made in his image ... we know that God has a body that looks like ours."

"His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones" (D& C 130:22)

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

1. Who is God?

2. Or maybe, what is God?

3. Doctrine #130 came into being in April 1843, right? So what was the description of God before this time, and what happened to change the personage of God into a human body of flesh and bones?

So you aren't progressive enough to get the updated information about God....what can we do about it?

After all we have a living prophet and records from ancient prophets you don't have....

"Everything that he does is to help his cildren become like him--a god."

1. Is that to be taken that the CoJCoLDS's teaches that you may be like god.

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

2. Is man made in the image of God or in the likeness of God. Which is to be taken to be "like him" in the above statement?

I think Acts 17:28 explains our true relationship with Christ/God....Also ...if a dog has offspring...will they or will they not be dogs...???

page 10

"By keeping his commandment we can become like him."

1. Please explain that the text means. How is keeping God's commandments causing one to be like God.

In 1 Jn. 4: 8

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 Tim. 1: 5

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity/love unfeigned out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

If God is love and love is charity....and the end of the commandment/obedience to such is charity/pure love of Christ/God who is Love.....then indeed through obedience we can become like, as, God Himself....as any good parent would want his offspring to be....like, as, himself...

2. Is this "God" ... the Heavenly Father?

3. BTW... the commandments of God are different than the commandments of Jesus (Matthew 23:37) There are at least six words for commandments in the Bible, two in Hebrew and four in Greek. Each word relates a different type of commandment, therefore the commandments of God and the commandments of Christ, and the commandments of the apostles, etc are all identified by different words.. but that also identifies that the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus are different because different word meanings are used and implied.

The commandments of Jesus/Jehovah are the same...but different for different people in different eras.

When God told Moses....to call Him I AM or IOW existent....He was reinterating His title Jehovah which also means to exist or to be.

Christ is Jehovah incarnate. Mosiah 15 explains this...:

THE BOOK OF MOSIAH

CHAPTER 15

How Christ is both the Father and the Son—He shall make intercession and bear the transgressions of his people—They and all the holy prophets are his seed—He bringeth to pass the resurrection—Little children have eternal life. [About 148 B.C.]

1 AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

Page 10

"We can know God if we will--- 3. Pray to him"

"as we do these thing, we will come to now God and eventually have eternal life"

1. Do you believe that God only hears the prayers of repentant sinners?

2. If so, why doesn't John 3:16 apply to give the believer eternal life.

What does eventually coming to know God have to do with listening to prayers of the repentant sinner only? I don't see any connection. The Lord listens to whom He will...He may not answer them...and he may indeed answer them...He only knows why and when....

John 3:16 applies gives everyone ressurrection into an imortal state....He conquered death....for all. But Eternal life as Eternal is God's name because it is His life.....that comes from new birth/being born again....through the Spirit....becoming new in Christ...new life....as long as we are humbly repentant, submissive as a child to Christ and His Spirit...we will stay new in the LIFE of Christ's love.

He is the living water....the bread of life....NEW LIFE, ETERNAL LIFE.

Well, there's questions for starters.

There's answers for starters.

[serapha]

for those that agreed to a discussion on the Gospel Principles, the first reference was to read the First Article of Faith

Page 306, First Article of Faith

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Then, I have my first question.

Page 9

"God is the one supreme and absolute being in whom we believe and whom we sorship. He is the Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things."

1. Is Jesus God?

2. Do you worship Jesus?

yes....ever read the Book of Mormon?

<span style='color:red'>No, I haven't read the the book of mormon. Does that text answer the question, "Do you worship Jesus?"

2 Ne. 11: 7

7 For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and che is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

Page 9

"Because we are made in his image ... we know that God has a body that looks like ours."

"His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body of flesh and bones" (D& C 130:22)

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

1. Who is God?

2. Or maybe, what is God?

3. Doctrine #130 came into being in April 1843, right? So what was the description of God before this time, and what happened to change the personage of God into a human body of flesh and bones?

So you aren't progressive enough to get the updated information about God....what can we do about it?

After all we have a living prophet and records from ancient prophets you don't have....

address issues, not people

"Everything that he does is to help his cildren become like him--a god."

1. Is that to be taken that the CoJCoLDS's teaches that you may be like god.

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

2. Is man made in the image of God or in the likeness of God. Which is to be taken to be "like him" in the above statement?

I think Acts 17:28 explains our true relationship with Christ/God....Also ...if a dog has offspring...will they or will they not be dogs...???

<span style='color:red'>Acts 17:28

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

FYI, "your own poets" is believed to be Aratus of Tarsus, and "For we are also his offspring" is a referece tht Aratus made of Jove (Jupiter or Zeus). Therefore, yes, there is an inference to being offspring of God, spiritual children of God who is "spirit"

page 10

"By keeping his commandment we can become like him."

1. Please explain that the text means. How is keeping God's commandments causing one to be like God.

In 1 Jn. 4: 8

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 Tim. 1: 5

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity/love unfeigned out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

If God is love and love is charity....and the end of the commandment/obedience to such is charity/pure love of Christ/God who is Love.....then indeed through obedience we can become like, as, God Himself....as any good parent would want his offspring to be....like, as, himself...

<span style='color:red'>BTW... do you have a "clue" where Jesus learned the "great commandment"? Or, would you care to know the origination of that thought? It doesn't pertain to anything relative to "knowing God". It pertains to the incarnate Christ growing in wisdom and knowledge.

2. Is this "God" ... the Heavenly Father?

3. BTW... the commandments of God are different than the commandments of Jesus (Matthew 23:37) There are at least six words for commandments in the Bible, two in Hebrew and four in Greek. Each word relates a different type of commandment, therefore the commandments of God and the commandments of Christ, and the commandments of the apostles, etc are all identified by different words.. but that also identifies that the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus are different because different word meanings are used and implied.

The commandments of Jesus/Jehovah are the same...but different for different people in different eras.

When God told Moses....to call Him I AM or IOW existent....He was reinterating His title Jehovah which also means to exist or to be.

Christ is Jehovah incarnate. Mosiah 15 explains this...:

THE BOOK OF MOSIAH

CHAPTER 15

How Christ is both the Father and the Son—He shall make intercession and bear the transgressions of his people—They and all the holy prophets are his seed—He bringeth to pass the resurrection—Little children have eternal life. [About 148 B.C.]

1 AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

Page 10

"We can know God if we will--- 3. Pray to him"

"as we do these thing, we will come to now God and eventually have eternal life"

1. Do you believe that God only hears the prayers of repentant sinners?

2. If so, why doesn't John 3:16 apply to give the believer eternal life.

What does eventually coming to know God have to do with listening to prayers of the repentant sinner only? I don't see any connection. The Lord listens to whom He will...He may not answer them...and he may indeed answer them...He only knows why and when....

John 3:16 applies gives everyone ressurrection into an imortal state....He conquered death....for all. But Eternal life as Eternal is God's name because it is His life.....that comes from new birth/being born again....through the Spirit....becoming new in Christ...new life....as long as we are humbly repentant, submissive as a child to Christ and His Spirit...we will stay new in the LIFE of Christ's love.

He is the living water....the bread of life....NEW LIFE, ETERNAL LIFE.

<span style='color:red'>Well, the quote statement is that you will come to know God if you pray to him... There are five passages in the Bible that state that God only hears the prayers of repentent sinnser. Therefore, if one is not a sinner, then one is saved, and will know God... ergo, the statement "as we do these thing, we will come to know God"... isn't biblical.

Well, there's questions for starters.

There's answers for starters.

And unsolicited personal insults... let's try to address issue and not people in future postings, okay?

~serapha~

[Guest Starsky]

Well you know how to slide....past the issues...so why address them?

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 22 2004, 06:03 PM

1.  Is Jesus God?

2.  Do you worship Jesus?

I'll answer both at the same time.

We believe that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are members of the Godhead, seperate in entities, same in purpose. So in essence, we would believe that all 3 are actually Gods. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. We worship God, the Eternal Father, but we do this in the name of Jesus Christ. When we pray, we pray to Heavenly Father, when we give thanks, we give thanks to Heavenly Father, and when we ask for things, we ask Heavenly Father. But everything we do, we do through Jesus Christ. We pray through Jesus Christ, when we perform our ordinances in the name of Jesus Christ, we end our testimonies, our talks in the name of Jesus Christ, and this includes worship. We worship Heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ.

That was confusing wasn't it?

1.  Who is God? 

2.  Or maybe, what is God?

Not sure I understand.

3.  Doctrine #130 came into being in April 1843, right?  So what was the description of God before this time, and what happened to change the personage of God into a human body of flesh and bones? 

The description would have been the same, but we didn't know that until we were able to receive modern day revelation.

"Everything that he does is to help his cildren become like him--a god."

1.  Is that to be taken that the CoJCoLDS's teaches that you may be like god. 

Yes. So does what you call "mainstream Christianity" Matt 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" We are always striving to be like Him.

Is man made in the image of God or in the likeness of God.  Which is to be taken to be "like him" in the above statement?

Not sure I understand what the difference are. To me they both mean the same. We are made in the image, as in we look like him. We have arms, legs, a head...yadda yadda yadda. Wouldn't that also be his likeness?

"By keeping his commandment we can become like him."

1.  Please explain that the text means.  How is keeping God's commandments causing one to be like God. 

2.  Is this "God" ... the Heavenly Father? 

3.  BTW... the commandments of God are different than the commandments of Jesus (Matthew 23:37)  There are at least six  words for commandments in the Bible, two in Hebrew and four in Greek.  Each word relates a different type of commandment, therefore the commandments of God and the commandments of Christ, and the commandments of the apostles, etc are all identified by different words.. but that also identifies that the commandments of God and the commandments of Jesus are different because different word meanings are used and implied.

1. Don't you think God keeps the commandments? In keeping them, wouldn't we be striving to be like him? I think you're trying to read too much into things. This isn't referring to us being as God is in the sense of "all knowing all powerful" This goes back to Matt 5:48. Striving to be like him.

2. Yes

3. And your point?

1.  Do you believe that God only hears the prayers of repentant sinners?

2.  If so, why doesn't John 3:16 apply to give the believer eternal life.

1. No. We believe that we are all Children of our Heavenly Father. And we believe that he loves us all the same. He loves me just as much as he loves somone who goes out and murders innocent people. We do believe we are in the true church, but that is not to say that everyone who isn't is missing out on the Love of our Father in Heaven, or the love of Christ.

2. Since we don't believe that, this question should be answered.

[serapha]

AFDaw....

Thanks for the responses. I had been told previously by members of the CoJCoLDS..... that exaltation to Godship, aka becoming gods, was not a doctrine of the CoJCoLDS's. I see on today's forum that isn't "true". I will be asking those that gave me "wrong" information for an explanation.

thanks again for replying.

I will try to post another chapter tomorrow.

~serapha~

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 23 2004, 08:46 PM

AFDaw....

Thanks for the responses. I had been told previously by members of the CoJCoLDS..... that exaltation to Godship, aka becoming gods, was not a doctrine of the CoJCoLDS's. I see on today's forum that isn't "true". I will be asking those that gave me "wrong" information for an explanation.

thanks again for replying.

I will try to post another chapter tomorrow.

~serapha~

Just so you know, nothing in Chapter 1 was about exaltation to Gods. So I'm not exactly sure why you said that.

[serapha]

Just so you know, nothing in Chapter 1 was about exaltation to Gods.  So I'm not exactly sure why you said that.

Hi,

real quick, there was a reference in chapter 1 to doctrine 130 which has a statement about being gods.

~serapha~

[AFDaw]

It referenced D&C 130:22 to show that we believe God has a body of flesh and bones. It reads...

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also, but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."