Millennium wait for 87 years


Speakzeasy
 Share

Recommended Posts

I frequently have no idea what you're talking about but I'm completely lost here. I don't recall adultery referenced anywhere in this thread. :confused: (Though I admit I've skimmed most of the teal deer posts, at best.)

According to scripture Matthew 16:4

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The real question is why do you think that the Savior's coming is at the beginning of a calendar millennium?

I am not so sure that the birth of Jesus is at 1 A.D.

However the calendar that we use and apply to our everyday use is very correct in that the beginning of the fourth millennium from Adam and the beginning of the seventh millennium from Adam are completely compatible with the history that is told in the events relating to prophecy through the Bible and Book of Mormon. It is necessary to have the pieces of the puzzle of the story in prophecy fit into and tell the big picture. The time periods and events must all align. Otherwise the story makes no sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We may not know the exact day, but the Lord has given us plenty of signs to follow, and they are all in the scriptures. It will be a great and dreadful day indeed, but there will be many great days along the way for those who watch and pray and not faint. And for those who are not ready, it will be dreadful.

I can appreciate what you are saying. But...What would it do for you if you knew the exact date and time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign (Matt. 16:4)

There is nothing in this thread to suggest that someone is seeking for a "sign."

If fact I use a short phrase often that look something like this: "pointing to our time/day."

How does one seek a sign when one understands that the prophecies point in a direction of travel?

Pointing and seeking are two very different actions.

Edited by Speakzeasy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can appreciate what you are saying. But...What would it do for you if you knew the exact date and time?

I do not need an exact date. An understanding of prophecy does not require it. It is necessary to know the the birth of Jesus was four millennium after Adam. It is necessary to know that the birth and death of Jesus has occurred.

These things are necessary because they are a part of the prophetic story. It brings us to the two millenniums after Jesus which our time, the being of the seventh millennium. The life of Jesus is the beginning of the fulfillment of the covenants made to father Abraham. These need to be better understood as well. Prophecy is about the events that point to the last days, they point to our day. I do not know why we try to apply some other time periods on the story that is in prophecy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe there is a misunderstanding of scripture. We all know the signs and events that will lead up to the return of Christ. And yes we know that when those two prophets are left in the streets there is very very little time left.

But to try and pinpoint an exact day of His return right now is impossible.

When Jesus comes again - I do not believe that faithful Saints will be surprised. However, I do believe that the world and many "believers" will be. What I intended to make explicitly clear is that faithful Saints will know the exact day in advance despite that many seem to interpret scripture otherwise. I would argue that most casual students should have the day at least 1 year in advance and other somewhat in advance of that.

I believe that it is possible that there are some that currently know. What I do agree is that anyone currently attempting to make the day public is doing so contrary to revelation.

One thing I find interesting from a historical stand point is that since the time that Jesus assented there have been "credible" movements within the Christian community that felt it necessary to publish that without question the date could not possibly be more than 250 years away and likely that children being born would see it before they died. This is because of Matt 24:34 and Luke 21:32

For myself I believe that the Matt and Luke scriptures are misinterpreted because it is not understood symbolically to actually point to something else that has more to do with individuals being translated than the nearness of the 2nd coming.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not need an exact date. An understanding of prophecy does not require it. It is necessary to know the the birth of Jesus was four millennium after Adam. It is necessary to know that the birth and death of Jesus has occurred.

Was the birth of Jesus 4 millennium after Adam to the year, month and day. And when you say 4 millennium after Adam are you speaking of his creation, his partaking of the fruit, being sent from the garden, being baptized, or his death? My point is - that I do not think you actually know when the "clock" being spoken of in scripture actually started ticking. So I keep wondering exactly what it is that you think you know. Especially if you think you are counting the years according to the Gregorian calender.

These things are necessary because they are a part of the prophetic story. It brings us to the two millenniums after Jesus which our time, the being of the seventh millennium. The life of Jesus is the beginning of the fulfillment of the covenants made to father Abraham. These need to be better understood as well. Prophecy is about the events that point to the last days, they point to our day. I do not know why we try to apply some other time periods on the story that is in prophecy.

Historically there have been repeated events that have attempted to apply symbolic dates to actual dates - sometimes I believe this is possible but it has been my observation that in most all cases it has been after the fact. One particular ancient source I find of particular interest is in the Book of Enoch that references those that used ancient records to pinpoint exact dates. The L-rd responds that he had changed the reckoning of man's time so that those the believe such things would be caught in their own folly.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was the birth of Jesus 4 millennium after Adam to the year, month and day. And when you say 4 millennium after Adam are you speaking of his creation, his partaking of the fruit, being sent from the garden, being baptized, or his death?

Good question. Simple answer: the partaking of the fruit would be the beginning as I understand it.

As far as calendars go. One does research base on standards. If one does not establish a standard for the time frame one cannot find anything. The standard calendar that is most useful is by following the story in history that is told in prophecy by Nephi in his vision, as recorded in 1 Nephi 11-14.

You can debate that he does not use a calendar. However, the events that we read about in his vision can be applied to a calendar from our vantage point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good question. Simple answer: the partaking of the fruit would be the beginning as I understand it.

As far as calendars go. One does research base on standards. If one does not establish a standard for the time frame one cannot find anything. The standard calendar that is most useful is by following the story in history that is told in prophecy by Nephi in his vision, as recorded in 1 Nephi 11-14.

You can debate that he does not use a calendar. However, the events that we read about in his vision can be applied to a calendar from our vantage point.

We know from the theory of relativity that time is not a constant but is capable of being distorted. As a standard I believe that we can say that Jesus did indeed live according to our current time approximately 2 thousand years ago. What we do not know is if the scriptural counting of a millennium is exact or if the reference is symbolic inclusively of more than just time. There are just two many unknowns.

From you posts you may have gathered that I have a lot of interest in the Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch is the most previous scripture quoted in the New Testament - including by Jesus. The historical claim as to why the Book of Enoch was not included in the Bible was it was believed to have been written well after the New Testament. This was given as the reason for the acute parallels. The medieval claimed that the Book of Enoch was a fraud. However, a partial copy of Enoch was found among the Dead Scrolls and was over 300 years before Christ and could not have been a copy of any New Testament manuscripts. In short the Book of Enoch was excluded from the Bible for reasons that were false.

Interestingly LDS have much of the doctrine of Enoch in the Pearl of Great Price. But we know that even our latter-day revelations are incomplete and that there is more to be revealed. Another source I find most interesting is the Chinese and their records including their calender. Because their calendar can be tied directly to historical and geological events that can draw down on history.

With the information of the Chinese we can demonstrate that a global flood would have to have been much more ancient than what we see in Bible text. This would correlate with Enoch in demonstrating that the 4000 years from Adam to Christ is very problematic and likely the reckoning of time altered by G-d. Not impossible for Adam to have been 4000 years before Christ but very problematic. For sure there are parameters that currently are not know.

I believe it is possible that Adam could have lived 40,000 to 60,000 years ago. Since I am not sure - I do not publish this as doctrine and try to remain both open and curious but also realizing that we may not find out until the millennium or even later.

But the kicker for me is that if we can account for 4,000 years between Adam and Jesus then the time for which Jesus would reign for what is know as the millennium has passed beyond the 6,000 years Adam and I do not believe that such is the case.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the kicker for me is that if we can account for 4,000 years between Adam and Jesus then the time for which Jesus would reign for what is know as the millennium has passed beyond the 6,000 years Adam and I do not believe that such is the case.

I agree that the millennium has passed beyond the 6,000 years of Adam. In nearly every way. If taken as an even thousand year date 4001-3001-2001-1001-1-1001-2001 Christ being at 1 and our day being at 2001. We are now beyond that date. However, as you have posted:

I believe there is a misunderstanding of scripture.

That misunderstanding extends to the events that surround the beginning of the seventh millennium. The seventh millennium, from my understanding, started as it was foretold in prophecy, and with the events that should have played out. We have been watching the fulfillment of prophecy in real time. Many things have occurred during last thirteen years that the prophets have foretold. I can only "see" before this moment and at the moment in which we are currently at, with scriptures telling the story. Prophecy looks forward (as well as backward), so there are somethings that can be determined in the near future. However, prophecy does not give enough detail to get pointed about anything. I am disappointed that things are not moving much faster then they are. We went into really slow period for six years, it has now picked up the pace. I am looking forward to the next year to two years (I hoping no longer then a year and a half) for current processes to come together.

None of what is going on currently is being valued in the same way that it has been in prophecy.

I am not going to ask anyone to believe anything that I could explain about my understanding about the subject of prophecy. Time will play story out for better or worst

(I will need to pick up a copy of the Book of Enoch and read it. It has not been on my study list. It maybe an interesting read. I have been busy with the Bible and Book of Mormon. - I will pickup a copy of the Book of Enoch in the next couple of days. Found a copy "The Book of Enoch" at Project Gutenberg, one of my favorite achives.)

Edited by Speakzeasy
correction of "four" to "six"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the millennium has passed beyond the 6,000 years of Adam. In nearly every way. If taken as an even thousand year date 4001-3001-2001-1001-1-1001-2001 Christ being at 1 and our day being at 2001. We are now beyond that date. However, as you have posted:

That misunderstanding extends to the events that surround the beginning of the seventh millennium. The seventh millennium, from my understanding, started as it was foretold in prophecy, and with the events that should have played out. We have been watching the fulfillment of prophecy in real time. Many things have occurred during last thirteen years that the prophets have foretold. I can only "see" before this moment and at the moment in which we are currently at, with scriptures telling the story. Prophecy looks forward (as well as backward), so there are somethings that can be determined in the near future. However, prophecy does not give enough detail to get pointed about anything. I am disappointed that things are not moving much faster then they are. We went into really slow period for six years, it has now picked up the pace. I am looking forward to the next year to two years (I hoping no longer then a year and a half) for current processes to come together.

None of what is going on currently is being valued in the same way that it has been in prophecy.

I am not going to ask anyone to believe anything that I could explain about my understanding about the subject of prophecy. Time will play story out for better or worst

(I will need to pick up a copy of the Book of Enoch and read it. It has not been on my study list. It maybe an interesting read. I have been busy with the Bible and Book of Mormon. - I will pickup a copy of the Book of Enoch in the next couple of days. Found a copy "The Book of Enoch" at Project Gutenberg, one of my favorite achives.)

Trust me - the removal (chaining) of Satan and the 1,000 year reign of Christ is not happening yet. I do believe that it can be argued that we are in a transition time that will eventually get us there - but I quite sure we have not crossed that threshold.

One note concerning the Book of Enoch - it is written using several ancient Hebrew poetic formats - similar to Isaiah. Because such formats are not chronological as we are use to in modern literature you may find it helpful to also study various poetic formats as well.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely agree with Traveler that we are in a transition period (events being set in motion). Going back to scripture and setting Isaiah aside, reading the Book of Mormon is a big clue as to what to expect before, during and after their desolating scourge and Zion is established, even if it lasted only a few generations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trust me - the removal (chaining) of Satan and the 1,000 year reign of Christ is not happening yet. I do believe that it can be argued that we are in a transition time that will eventually get us there - but I quite sure we have not crossed that threshold.

I definitely agree with Traveler that we are in a transition period (events being set in motion). Going back to scripture and setting Isaiah aside, reading the Book of Mormon is a big clue as to what to expect before, during and after their desolating scourge and Zion is established, even if it lasted only a few generations.

And I definitely agree that Satan as neither been bound nor released from that binding that is spoken of by John in Rev. 20:1-3.

There is a story that is always overlooked that sits in Revelation chapter 12:

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth . . . (Rev. 12:3-4) (Italics mine)

Then look at Rev. 13:1:

1 AND I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Rev. 13:1) (Italics mine)

Rev. chapter 13 is the story about what happens after the great red dragon is cast to the earth.

The time period in which Satan (Rev. 12:9) is cast to the earth in the story written by John in the Book of Revelation must be associated with the seven head and ten horns. Revelation chapter 17 informs us this fact:

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the [seven heads of the] beast. (Rev. 17:12).

The beast is an abstract that can only be identified through observation. It is not a physical entity. We know this because John describes it attributes in Rev. 13:2 and tells us that the [great red] dragon gives "him his power, and his seat, and great authority." There is no person that can be made in the image of G_d and have the appearance that John describes in Rev. 13:2. Nor can it be a political entity, since John has give to two sets of people who hold authority in two different ruling bodies.

Note that the seven heads receive their crowns in Rev. 12:3. At the time of the rebellion in heaven. Then what we see is the ten horns receive their crowns after they are upon the earth (Rev. 13:1).

The seven heads and ten horns are not mutually joined together in Rev. 17:12 in authority either. But the ten horns "receive power as kings" with the seven heads. They are two different bodies with something (authority) in common during the same time period. And during this time period Satan has great influence.

The Influence that Satan has during the time of the seven heads and ten horns is just prior to the beginning of his being bound as spoken of in Rev. 20:1-3.

One note concerning the Book of Enoch - it is written using several ancient Hebrew poetic formats - similar to Isaiah. Because such formats are not chronological as we are use to in modern literature you may find it helpful to also study various poetic formats as well.

Thank you for letting me know this. I started reading the Book of Enoch last night. I found in the writings that are third party narratives. What is your thought on these. Do you think that the third party narratives keep with the story line? I find at times they have not done so in the Bible.

Edited by Speakzeasy
sence to since
Link to comment
Share on other sites

.....

Thank you for letting me know this. I started reading the Book of Enoch last night. I found in the writings that are third party narratives. What is your thought on these. Do you think that the third party narratives keep with the story line? I find at times they have not done so in the Bible.

I find many third party narratives very helpful in understanding but seldom is the help direct. Let me explain. Often third party narratives will reference structure as well as content. This gives insight into how the ancient Hebrew poetic structure gives insights into the interpretation. Modern languages are very literal and our culture is not use to communicating with symbols. (This is why familiarity with the symbolism used in the temple can be so helpful.) In ancient scripture certain phrases carry symbolism rather than the words. We do this with English. Consider the phrase, "You are so bad!" Because of how the phrase is used it can have the opposite meaning than the words; so symbolically it can mean that you are exceptionally good or unusual.

In addition the narratives can give additional helps to specific symbols. For example, anciently number were symbols of things other than the counted number we are use to in mathematics. For example, the number 3 can represent divine influence, 7 can mean a great many, 70 is symbolic of infinite or eternal. Something coming from the sea can be symbolic of something evil and not of man - anciently it was believe that an evil g-d had power over the dead and the sea and often the g-ds of the oceans and the dead were either the same g-d or in league. Heads, other parts of the body and horns also carry symbolism. For example horns were used in battle to direct various bodies of an army - so a horn can designate an attack or battle front. Anyway narratives can shed light of how symbolism can be used but it is my personal opinion that without modern revelation of the restoration that narratives can be focused wrong and miss meaning.

Another interesting example is how many have utilized the symbolism to get a slightly wrong idea is the symbol of Cherubim being to designate an angel. However, from my research into how the symbolism of a Cherubim is used in scripture - I am convinced that a Cherub is the symbol of Christ or Messiah.

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys:

I'm new to the forum so I hope you don't mind if I jump right in and add my $0.02...

First, if something is included in the scriptures (i.e. timing of the the 2nd Coming w/ it's acompanying signs) , we have both the responsibility and the ability to understand it.

Second. I don't for a minute think that The Savior didn't know exactly when He was going to return as many belive b/c of a literal interpretation of the scripture "no man knoweth, no not the angles in heaven nor The Son". I think the meaning is pretty close to what Traveler said previously in the thread. It was a way to answer the question w/o answering the question--DIRECTLY.

Third, I agree that it really doesn't matter when it is just that we're ready when it happens.

Fourth, It was John's mission to provide the most comprehensive version of the last days. His is obviously the most complete and an angel told Nephi as much (1 NE 14: 20-28). So, if you want to understand the last days, The Revelation must be the focus of your studies.

and

Finally FWIW here's my take of when we currently are in the timeline of the end times (I have a pretty good ppt page that visualizes this but unfortunately I couldn't upload it so I'll just summerize below). Basically the 7th Seal has opend and we're in the 1/2 Hour of Silence right now.

- The sign for the 6th Seal has long come and gone. See JST Rev 6:14

- The 7th Seal opend 6 Apr 2000 IMO b/c it was exactly 6000 yrs since Adam entered mortality; there was an unprecidented planetary alignment between Saturn, Venus and Earth (Saturn repesent The Father, Venus represents The Son); the Palmyra Temple was dedicated on this day and it was 1 Nisan of the Hebrew calendar (i.e the 1st day of the 7th month or in other words the begining of the 7th time period) and a holy day in and of itself.

- GBH gave his 7 yrs of plenty 7 yrs of famine prophesy in 10 '01 conference and also gave the talk "Living in the Fullness of Tiimes"--both are absolute must reads.

The 7 years of famine will end in 2015. 2016 I would expect to be a momentous year. During that year there will be a US presidential election as well as a Juliblee year in the Hebrew calendar (The 6 Day war was fought during the last Jubilee year). It is possible that the Tribulation period spoken of in The Revelation will start in 2016 but most likely will start in 2021 as that will be about 21 years after the opening of the 7th Seal.

Edited by durangout
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm new to the forum so I hope you don't mind if I jump right in and add my $0.02...

Do not mind at all.

It is interesting I have dedicated nearly all of my free time during the last ten years to applying prophecy to history. I am wondering why anyone feels a need to venture out of the Bible and Book of Mormon?

Scripture, with all its puzzling prospects, really is a story that we need to put together. G_d did not provide prophecy (as with the rest of scripture) for us to neglect. It is all written to our benefit in the books that we refer to has being the word of G_d. To organize the information and bring it into understanding is where the difficulty lies. All of us have our own thoughts and use many different methods by which we think will bring an answer to the mystery of the scriptural puzzle.

However, scripture gives a complete story to bring in and to pull pieces together. The story in prophecy (Bible and Book of Mormon) and the history of men, when brought together, run hand in hand. There is a flow of time and information about events and characters. It comes together with obvious completion as one realizes the answers in history to the questions that are posed by the story in prophecy. Research must flow. It has it moments. However, in the end the problems must all run together with the answers in prophecy.

We need a corner piece for the puzzle to be put together. Understanding what that corner piece in scripture is takes and observation of the world a round us. The beginning is not a haphazard piece of time or event in history. It must have significance and be relevant to the story which is in prophecy before being researched. I would not find something without knowing or understanding what I am looking for or how to make application of it.

If you read the previous post on this thread you will note that a of piece the puzzle, as I understand it, starts with Macedonia (the ram Dan. 8:3-7). Look at recent history and see if that prophecy can be connected to characters between 1946 and 2001:

The were seven Secretary-Generals of the United Nations between Feb. 2, 1946 and Dec. 31, 2006.

The were ten United States Presidents between April 12, 1945 and January 20, 2001.

Note that these individuals served in office during the same time period. This is required by John in Rev. 17:12. when the ten horns receive power from the seven heads during the same period of time.

What is interesting is the ram (Macedonia) in Daniel connects with the seventeen people listed above. There is no interruption in the story between their different time periods when following prophecy as written in the Bible and Book of Mormon.

The ideas you present are interesting. I am not sure how to apply them to the story in scripture. Maybe more explanation would be of use?

Edited by Speakzeasy
spelling corrections
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The were seven Secretary-Generals of the United Nations between Feb. 2, 1946 and Dec. 31, 2006.

The were ten United States Presidents between April 12, 1945 and January 20, 2001.

This is interesting, but did the presidents of the United States really receive power from the Secretary-Generals of the UN? In 1945, the US had just won a war. It set up the UN while it was the biggest political power on the planet. Since that time, the UN has had a hand in US-led wars (like the Gulf War), but those were Security council actions, not iniatives of the Secretary-General. For most of its life, the UN received its authority from the guarantee of the United States, not the other way around.

The numbers match up nicely, but I just don't see how one can claim that the presidents of the United States really received power from the Secretary-Generals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is interesting, but did the presidents of the United States really receive power from the Secretary-Generals of the UN? In 1945, the US had just won a war. It set up the UN while it was the biggest political power on the planet. Since that time, the UN has had a hand in US-led wars (like the Gulf War), but those were Security council actions, not iniatives of the Secretary-General. For most of its life, the UN received its authority from the guarantee of the United States, not the other way around.

The numbers match up nicely, but I just don't see how one can claim that the presidents of the United States really received power from the Secretary-Generals.

"In 1945, representatives of 50 countries met in San Francisco at the United Nations Conference on International Organization to draw up the United Nations Charter." (History of the United Nations and United Nations Photo: Gallery) (enjoy)

United States Signs United Nations Charter June 26, 1945:

United Nations Photo

The United Nations Charter is a form of treaty:

"At the end of World War II, treaties played an important part in shaping post-war U.S. foreign policy. Formal peace treaties were concluded with all belligerents except Germany. The Charters of the United Nations and the Organization of American States established a framework for international cooperation. The North Atlantic Treaty and other regional security treaties built a network of mutual security that endured throughout the Cold War." (TREATIES AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS: THE ROLE OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE)

As a treaty the U.S. Constitution requires that the Senate ratifies it:

Senate Ratifies United Nations Charter, July 28, 1945 - Andrew Glass - POLITICO.com

After the Senate Senate ratifies a treaty, the U.S. Constitution - Article 6 states that:

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding." (Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text)

There were concerns about the signing of the U.N. Charter because of the possibility of it being in conflict with the Constitution:

"From time to time concern has been expressed that treaties could have adverse implications for, or the effect of changing, domestic law. For example, the negotiation of human rights treaties under the auspices of the United Nations raised concern in the 1950s that some clauses, if ratified by the United States, might be in conflict with constitutional provisions safeguarding human rights, or that matters clearly in the domestic jurisdiction of the United States could be changed into matters of international concern. Other concerns were that some national powers might be transferred to an international organization, or that powers traditionally reserved to the states could be invaded by transferring them to the Federal Government or international bodies." (TREATIES AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS: THE ROLE OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE)

The author of the above paragraph most likely meant the 1940's rather then the 1950's.

We are responsible to the United Nations in many ways. An example of this is that we report the signed treaties to U.N. organization:

"The office is responsible for the registration of treaties and international agreements with the United Nations pursuant to Article 102 of the Charter of the United Nations. Article 102 provides that State Members of the United Nations have an obligation to register treaties and international agreements with the Secretariat of the United Nations, and the Secretariat is mandated to publish registered treaties or international agreements." (U.S. State Department Treaty Affairs)

However it is interesting that we answer to the organization just like every member country in the world, all 193 of them. (United Nations member States - Growth in United Nations membership, 1945-present)

The United States is the repository for the original United States Charter:

". . . Article 111 of its charter indicated that "The present Charter, of which the Chinese, French, Russian, English, and Spanish texts are equally authentic, shall remain deposited in the archives of the Government of the United States of America. Duly certified copies thereof shall be transmitted by that Government to the Governments of the other signatory states." (Our Documents - United Nations Charter (1945))

Here is an entry in the Encyclopedia of the United Nations at Google Books:

Military Staff Committee

"Article 47 of the UN Charter created the Military Staff Committee to 'advise and assist" the Security Council when it decided to use force under Chapter VII's provisions for the maintenance of peace and security. Clearly meant to provide the United Nations with its own military capability, Article 47 joined Articles 42, 43, 45, and 46 in producing an extraordinary innovation over previous international organizations such as the League of Nations. The Military Staff Committee provisions also were a realization of the wartime allies' expectation that the great powers would have the responsibility and authority to act militarily through UN machinery to preserve peace in the postwar period. The drafters of the Charter also contemplated in Article 26 the committee playing a role in the development of UN Disarmament programs. Yet, despite the intentions of the founders in 1945, the Military Staff Committee quickly fell into disuse, largely ignored after 1946." (Encyclopedia of the United Nations - Google Books)

An quote from an article in a study made by a couple of people associated with the Department of Economics, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA:

"Ten of the fifteen seats on the U.N. Security Council are held by rotating members serving two-year terms. We find that a country’s U.S. aid increases by 59 percent and its U.N. aid by 8 percent when it rotates onto the council. This effect increases during years in which key diplomatic events take place (when members’ votes should be especially valuable) and the timing of the effect closely tracks a country’s election to, and exit from, the council. Finally, the U.N. results appear to be driven by UNICEF, an organization over which the United States has historically exerted great control." (How Much Is a Seat on the Security Council Worth Foreign Aid and Bribery at the United Nations (PDF))

I think what John is saying in Rev. 17:12 is that they are given the power to sway events through the International body to their advantage.

Former secretary general, Boutros Boutros Ghali in an interview by Francesca de Châtel - The Guardian (UK), March 17, 2003:

"Multilateralism and unilateralism are just methods for the United States: they use them a la carte, as it suits them. The United Nations is just an instrument at the service of American policy. They will use it when they need to, through a multilateral approach and if they don't need it, they will act outside the framework of the United Nations. Of course with a military budget that is equivalent to that of all the permanent members of the security council together, they can afford to." ('The United Nations is just an instrument at the service of American policy' | World news | theguardian.com)

Boutros Boutros-Ghali (Egypt) was office from 1992-1996. Kofi Annan was in office (1997-2006) when U.S. President George W. Bush invaded Iraq.

A thought:

"The 8 years of the Clinton administration coincided with turbulent changes in UN peacekeeping. The United States influenced many of these developments, and the provision or withholding of U.S. resources and political often influenced the UN's actions on a particular issue. Throughout this time period the administration served both as an ardent proponent of UN peacekeeping and one of the fiercest advocates for peacekeeping reform." (U.S. State Department - 06. United Nations)

A video, released as a PBS program, that I located (tripped into) talks briefly about the relationship between the U.S.A. and the U.N. Watch Kofi Annan: Center of the Storm (2003) Online for Free - Viooz.

Edited by Speakzeasy
Added link to video.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share