timing of tithing settlement

[dahlia]

So, I'm trolling YouTube again, looking at some Dave Ramsey videos. I found some vids on tithing by Christians. So far so good. Then I look on the list of available videos and I see a title 'Mormon tithing settlement, always at Christmas time. No guilt or control' I didn't look at the video because I figured it was from an anti and didn't want to waste my time. The comments alone were enough.

Well, stupid me, I always thought the settlement came in December because it was the end of the calendar year and the ward/Church needed to get its books straight as it moves into the new year. I never thought of the tithing settlement having anything to do with Christmas, taking money away from parents that they were going to spend on their kids, etc.

Am I just a dumb Mormon or are the antis really reaching on this one? Does it make anyone antsy that the settlement is in December? Would the antis complain any less if it were Jan 1, right after people had blown money over the holidays?

[Dravin]

The antis will never complain any less.

[pam]

So, I'm trolling YouTube again, looking at some Dave Ramsey videos. I found some vids on tithing by Christians. So far so good. Then I look on the list of available videos and I see a title 'Mormon tithing settlement, always at Christmas time. No guilt or control' I didn't look at the video because I figured it was from an anti and didn't want to waste my time. The comments alone were enough.

Well, stupid me, I always thought the settlement came in December because it was the end of the calendar year and the ward/Church needed to get its books straight as it moves into the new year. I never thought of the tithing settlement having anything to do with Christmas, taking money away from parents that they were going to spend on their kids, etc.

Am I just a dumb Mormon or are the antis really reaching on this one? Does it make anyone antsy that the settlement is in December? Would the antis complain any less if it were Jan 1, right after people had blown money over the holidays?

Well then you wouldn't be the only stupid person because I've always thought it was for the church to get their books straight at the end of the year too.

I've never associated it having anything to do with Christmas.

[Seanette]

So, I'm trolling YouTube again, looking at some Dave Ramsey videos. I found some vids on tithing by Christians. So far so good. Then I look on the list of available videos and I see a title 'Mormon tithing settlement, always at Christmas time. No guilt or control' I didn't look at the video because I figured it was from an anti and didn't want to waste my time. The comments alone were enough.

Well, stupid me, I always thought the settlement came in December because it was the end of the calendar year and the ward/Church needed to get its books straight as it moves into the new year. I never thought of the tithing settlement having anything to do with Christmas, taking money away from parents that they were going to spend on their kids, etc.

Am I just a dumb Mormon or are the antis really reaching on this one? Does it make anyone antsy that the settlement is in December? Would the antis complain any less if it were Jan 1, right after people had blown money over the holidays?

I'm quite sure the Church's motivation has nothing to do with limiting funds parents have to satisfy the commercial-induced "I wants" of their kids at Christmas, especially since parents should have been paying tithing all year anyway. :)

I'm no expert, but my guess matches yours. It's fiscal-year bookkeeping, and getting the statement distributed to members in step with the tax year for members to do their taxes in a timely manner come January/February.

Dravin's right that antis will always find something to whine and carp at, even if they have to actively distort facts to achieve it.

[bytebear]

I always assumed it was so you had the paperwork for your taxes.

[MarginOfError]

The local unit accounting year in the US goes from January 1st to December 31st. It may not be the most convenient thing to do for tithing settlement (and the poor bishops who have to sit through it), but it lines up well with the legal requirement of units to send out charitable contribution records to all of their donors. These have to be sent by January 31st, so doing tithing settlement between November 15th and December 31st is a good time to wrap up the records.

Personally, I think the time frame for tithing settlement is crazy. And after having tried to coordinate it several times for the bishop, I've given up on it. I've chosen not to participate the past few years.

[Backroads]

I've always had tithing settlement in early November, with my various wards stating they were trying to get it out of the way before things got crazy.

But really, if you were on the ball with your budget and tithing payments and all that financial stuff, tithing settlement should have no real impact on your Christmas stash.

[MarginOfError]

I've always had tithing settlement in early November, with my various wards stating they were trying to get it out of the way before things got crazy.

But really, if you were on the ball with your budget and tithing payments and all that financial stuff, tithing settlement should have no real impact on your Christmas stash.

The official instructions state that tithing settlement should start no sooner than November 15th. I never heeded that instruction (shocker), but it's there, nonetheless.

[NeuroTypical]

It's an end of the year thing, not a Christmas thing.

If the church ever changes the month to something other than December, many bishops will be so happy they jump for joy. My former bishop hated having TS in December, because it took holiday time away from his family.

[MarginOfError]

I think they should forego the whole concentrated tithing settlement model and just require the bishops to meet with each household at least once during the year and take a statement on tithing status during that meeting. Then just record that and submit it at the end of the year. I don't see what difference it makes if a person declares him or herself a full tithe payer in April as opposed to December.

[beefche]

I think they should forego the whole concentrated tithing settlement model and just require the bishops to meet with each household at least once during the year and take a statement on tithing status during that meeting. Then just record that and submit it at the end of the year. I don't see what difference it makes if a person declares him or herself a full tithe payer in April as opposed to December.

Because if we do it in April, then someone is going to cry that bishops are waiting until taxes are filed to verify the amount of income and calculate 10%......

[Just_A_Guy]

Or, we could merge tithing settlement with temple recommend interviews. Imagine what the antis would do with that one!

[Guest]

I think they should forego the whole concentrated tithing settlement model and just require the bishops to meet with each household at least once during the year and take a statement on tithing status during that meeting. Then just record that and submit it at the end of the year. I don't see what difference it makes if a person declares him or herself a full tithe payer in April as opposed to December.

My understanding is - Tithing Settlement is done so that members can review the charitable contribution figures, bishop sends it up to the pike so that the Church can then file their IRS forms.

[MarginOfError]

My understanding is - Tithing Settlement is done so that members can review the charitable contribution figures, bishop sends it up to the pike so that the Church can then file their IRS forms.

There are two separate things involved in Tithing Settlement. 1) review of member contributions, and 2) members declaring their status as full, part, or or non-tithe payers (or exempt).

The review of the contributions doesn't need to involve the bishop directly. It's a clerical task that can be performed by the clerk distributing the donation statements (as is required at tithing settlement) and responding to any inaccuracies reported by the members*. When these inaccuracies are reported to the bishop, it almost always gets referred to the clerk anyway, so there's really no point in putting the bishop in the middle.

Declaring one's tithing status is the only part of the process that requires the bishop's direct involvement. But there's no inherent reason that has to be done between November 15th and December 31st.

Thus, you could eliminate "Tithing Settlement" in lieu of one of the alternatives proposed by JAG or myself, and the clerks would still do the clerical tasks at the end of the year.

* In my time as clerk, I spent probably a cumulative total of 90 minutes over 3 years addressing donation inaccuracies. Most inaccuracies were addressed long before we got to tithing settlement anyway. Gathering all of the tithing declarations required about 32 hours per year. And keep in mind, by the books, when the bishop is doing tithing settlement, there is supposed to be a clerk and a counselor present to immediately process any donations given to the bishop. So Tithing Settlement can be expected to suck up 96 man hours for each year for about 30 minutes of clerical work (clerical work that could be done by one person and signed off by the bishop).

I probably shouldn't go so far as to say that Tithing Settlement is a colossal waste of time, but it certainly is a horribly inefficient way to spend that time.

Edited October 17, 2013 by MarginOfError

[dahlia]

I saw something else that piqued my interest. Is it true that the Church leaders don't have to tithe? I suspect that they do, that that was another headline I noticed, along the line of 'everyone tithes except the leaders, who live off of the poor sucker tithe payers.'

[Vort]

I saw something else that piqued my interest. Is it true that the Church leaders don't have to tithe? I suspect that they do, that that was another headline I noticed, along the line of 'everyone tithes except the leaders, who live off of the poor sucker tithe payers.'

Here is my understanding:

There is a handful of Church leaders (General Authorities and mission presidents) who, being full-time in service for the Church, have the option of receiving a stipend from the Church's tithing funds. There are something over 400 mission presidents and something under 100 General Authorities, so I suppose there are about 500 men who have the option of receiving that living stipend. Some do not accept it, but I don't have any idea how many do or do not.

This is a stipend, however, and not a salary. The difference may seem inconsequential, but I think it's meaningful. As full-time emissaries of the Church, these men take their stipend in essence directly from the tithing fund. They might take 11% more and then pay 10% of the total back, but that's the same as taking 10% less to begin with and not paying tithing.

On what I believe to be a related note, I was told that all CES employees, including seminary teachers (some of whom are salaried) and BYU employees, used to receive their paychecks with tithing automatically deducted. How about that for convenience! Enough people hollered about that that they changed the system, and that particular, um, service is no longer availabe.

[dahlia]

I was told that all CES employees, including seminary teachers (some of whom are salaried) and BYU employees, used to receive their paychecks with tithing automatically deducted. How about that for convenience! Enough people hollered about that that they changed the system, and that particular, um, service is no longer available.

I wondered about that if I were ever fortunate enough to land a post at BYU.

[Vort]

I wondered about that if I were ever fortunate enough to land a post at BYU.

Pretty sure this was quite a while ago, like previous to the 1970s.

[Dravin]

There is a handful of Church leaders (General Authorities and mission presidents) who, being full-time in service for the Church, have the option of receiving a stipend from the Church's tithing funds. There are something over 400 mission presidents and something under 100 General Authorities, so I suppose there are about 500 men who have the option of receiving that living stipend. Some do not accept it, but I don't have any idea how many do or do not.

Unless things have changed*, living allowances for General Authorities come from the Church's business monies and not from tithing. I don't know if mission presidents would be considered general authorities within the context of my source. Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Questions and Answers

*My source is almost 30 years old so it is entirely possible things have changed in the intervening years.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Dravin

[Just_A_Guy]

Once upon a time, yes; GAs were not expected to tithe. I believe that changed around the turn of the 20th century. No idea what the status quo is now.

[Vort]

Unless things have changed*, living allowances for General Authorities come from the Church's business monies and not from tithing. I don't know if mission presidents would be considered general authorities within the context of my source. Source: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Questions and Answers

*My source is almost 30 years old so it is entirely possible things have changed in the intervening years.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the correction. I'm sure that mission presidents are not considered General Authorities, which is why I listed them separately. I have a friend whose father was a mission president and who told me they have the option of receiving a living stipend while serving, which is how I know (or think I know) mission presidents can receive such a stipend.

[dahlia]

No matter where it comes from, are they paying tithing on it?

[MarginOfError]

No matter where it comes from, are they paying tithing on it?

Your guess is as good as mine, but for what it's worth, the full time missionaries are instructed not to pay tithing on their monthly living allowances. However, they are instructed to pay tithing on income sources such as stocks or interest from their accounts at home.

Missionaries also have restrictions on what they are permitted to purchase with their allowances (or MSF, short for Mission Support Funds). MSF should be used to support the missionary work; including food, supplies, transportation, etc. souvenirs and most clothing are expected to be purchased through their personal funds.

[Zeitgeist]

Can someone explain precisely what goes on during tithing settlement? I converted early in a calendar year and then moved to a new ward at the end of that year and sort of fell through the cracks and was never called in. By the 2nd year I had become inactive. I had friends who talked a little about it, but it was mostly folklore, like how someone was able to sign some stock over to the Church. (To this day, I cannot imagine how uncomfortable a conversation this must have been with the bishop.)

Seems to me that a record of your contributions exists in some indisputable form at every point in the year, so having tithing settlement at the end of the year won't increase the accuracy of Church records or of your end-of-year record of contributions.

If this is a sensitive topic that should not be discussed in a public forum, that's okay. I just have never understood why a tithing settlement meeting would take more than 30 seconds. The bishop would ask, "Full, part, or none?" and it's over. Or do you bring in your W-2s and bank statements for a mini-audit? And I won't get into gross or net, there is plenty to read already about that on the Internet now.

[Guest]

I just have never understood why a tithing settlement meeting would take more than 30 seconds. The bishop would ask, "Full, part, or none?"

That's pretty much all it is. Our bishop usually uses it as an opportunity to check in with the family and see how everything is going, and has us check our membership records for accuracy. Even then, with 7 of us, we're out of there in 15 minutes or less.