Sabbath Keeping - How Important is it?

[Anddenex]

I just realized, I had to work sundays after we were first married. I spent two months looking for a job and finally got one at wendys. They told me I'd work one sunday a month and theyd rotate me. I however ended up working every sunday. I could tell it wasn't good. I absolutely didnt want to. I worked nearly every day when I was there and when sundays rolled around I could tell I had less energy, things didnt seem to go right, I felt bad for working. But I didnt have a choice, unless I wanted to be fired. I eventually got a job at Chick-fil-A. Dont have to work sundays anymore.

So, some might disagree with me. I felt like I didn't have a choice in leaving or staying. I don't think I was sinning, because my heart wasn't to get more money. It was so I didn't get fired. However, I definitly forfeited blessings. I will not work on sunday, and for me that involves choosing a profession where I do not have to work on Sunday. If I were to worship on another day maybe thats fine, but for me I found I never did it. So, just drop the whole question by avoding professions that lead to working on the Sabbath.

Thank you for sharing both comments in response to my response. I appreciate you sharing experiences from your own life, how you felt, why you felt, and the choices and growth in connection with your heart.

[Anddenex]

So....we're teaching that it isn't a stark right or wrong answer, but that there may be shades of gray. We're teaching that what may be the right answer for one person may not be the right answer for another person?

Forgive me if I'm being thick, but I don't see the problem here.

MoE, I don't believe you are being thick; I was sincerely asking people how they felt in order to check myself. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

My only concern with the first paragraph is based upon the idea of commandments. Commandments aren't established on a "right for one, wrong for another" basis. Whe the Lord said, Thou shalt not... it was meant for everyone.

Now, I also leave open Nephi's experience, Abraham's experience and those are exceptions, not the rule. When the Lord gives us a commandment, it isn't right for some and wrong for others. It is the only path we should keep until the Lord commands us personally otherwise, but when he does it always has a purpose like with Abraham and Nephi.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Anddenex

[Anddenex]

I believe the Hebrews Chapter 4 is important in understanding why we have a Sabbath. In essence we learn that how us use and formulate our Sabbath activities is in essence a type and shadow for us of our eternal rest or glory. In other words we should use the Sabbath as or eternal covenant of what it is we desire in eternity. For example: if we want to watch football for eternity then we should dedicate our Sabbath to watching football. Likewise those things we want removed from our eternal activities we should avoid. So if we do not want to be involved with Church things - we should avoid going to church. And we can start with avoiding attendance while we are on vacation (and no one will really notice) or during general or stake conference - we can just skip.

Whatever you intend to do in eternity - that should be part of your Sabbath and Sabbath covenant.

The Traveler

Thank you Traveler, that is an intriguing post. I will have to contemplate this principle you share about keeping the Sabbath holy.

[Anddenex]

How do you guys feel about having someone else do things for you on the Sabbath?

This wouldn't be something I would do personally. My personal perspective, I would technically be still shopping on Sunday although I asked someone else.

My primary issue with how Mormons keep the Sabbath is just sitting around staring into space. Especially as a single person with no little kids, this is just boring and not a good use of my time. We've talked about this here before. I go to church, I avoid the store, etc. on the Sabbath, but I have no problem going to a museum or gallery on Sunday. Sorry. I think I can be observant and get some culture on the same day. Also, I am not going to make my son miss a prime opportunity for treating his mother by telling him he can't buy me a restaurant dinner on Mother's Day. Shoot me.

Yes, I would agree with you "staring into space" on the Sabbath would be very very ( did I mention very ) boring, and I personally don't think this be keeping the Sabbath holy in the right spirit.

Well... I just may have to "shoot [ you ]" dahlia...but then again I will exercise great patience and refrain.

[MarginOfError]

MoE, I don't believe you are being thick; I was sincerely asking people how they felt in order to check myself. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

My only concern with the first paragraph is based upon the idea of commandments. Commandments aren't established on a "right for one, wrong for another" basis. Whe the Lord said, Thou shalt not... it was meant for everyone.

Now, I also leave open Nephi's experience, Abraham's experience and those are exceptions, not the rule. When the Lord gives us a commandment, it isn't right for some and wrong for others. It is the only path we should keep until the Lord commands us personally otherwise, but when he does it always has a purpose like with Abraham and Nephi.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

The issue I have with the question is that the commandment was "Thou shalt remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." But there was next to no additional divine clarification for what that meant. The Jews spent the next 2,000 years adding clarification after clarification. Most of it well-intentioned attempts to demonstrate piety.

The Savior walked all of that back, and gave us the freedom to determine what was keeping the Sabbath for ourselves. I don't have any reservations about teachign our members and our youth that the lines are not so clear cut as we would like to think. What qualifies as proper Sabbath observance can and will vary from one person to another. What's more, what qualifies as proper Sabbath observance may vary from one week to the next. I think the lessons we should be teaching are about how to make the best choices within the circumstances we are presented, and to avoid trying to define the universal rules, lest we end up practicing like the Pharisees.

In short, what you call "mixed message" about sabbath observance I'm inclined to call "reality based decision making."

[Leah]

I think something's gone wacky with my tablet. I meant to quote Dahlia and thanked her instead. Tried to quote her again and someone else's post shows up.

Having converted from Orthodox Judaism, I can tell you real life is different from whatever you were reading. I never knew anyone who used a shabbos got. The same injunction against causing others to work on the Sabbath applied. In a true emergency you might ask a non-Jewish neighbor for help. But employ a Shabbos goy? Nope.

I was Shomer Shabbos and I can tell you when one honors the Sabbath, it is a transcendant experience. From sundown Friday to sundown Saturday, everything we did and the way we did it, placed the focus n the Sabbath.

Keeping the Sabbath is not that hard! It's one day! People really can't give up shopping, restaurants, sports, work for ONE day? Six days a week to engage in those activities is not enough? You HAVE TO do all those things on the Lord's day, too? You'll begrudge Him one measly day?

If someone is sitting around staring into space, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the true spirit and intent of the Sabbath.

Keeping the Sabbath is not complicated nor difficult. If one truly wants to do it, they can. But an awful lot of people simply want to do what they want to do, when they want to do it. So they justify shopping on the Sabbath by calling it a "family activity". Just because you include a family member, doesn't automatically make it Sabbath appropriate. How does shopping focus on the Sabbath?

People say they don't have time to observe the Sabbath. I promise you, if you observe the Sabbath, you WILL find that you have time to do do all the housework, shopping, job duties, etc on the other six days.

There are amazing blessings to be had by honoring the Sabbath. Heavenly Father commanded us to do this. Shouldn't we be looking for ways to accomplish this, instead of looking for excuses why we won't?

[Lakumi]

yeah its more I have to then want to, as I said my job requires me to work weekends. Jobs are becoming more demanding of ones time, and in a town like mine where unemployment is very high, if I quit this job, there won't be another for me. (and this job is terrible)

a lot of people have a normal 9-5 weekday job but we can't be all that lucky- I can't move because I get lousy hours and terrible pay.

Life has not dealt me a good hand, and one cannot assume it has dealt an ideal hand to everyone.

[Drpepper]

Are we sending mixed messages to our youth?

Absolutely. You've hit a sensitive nerve with this one. We have a football player here in aus that has been glorified for the last few years and yes he has his own church video. The argument that he is a professional therefore it is ok to play on the sabbath is only half valid. You see in order to become a professional you have to play for many years at a high level and I don't know about the US but here that means playing on the sabbath at a very young age. So here's the question. While this man was a deacon, how many YM's presidents spent time praying about how they could get this YM to church and not play sport on a Sunday? When he was a teacher how many Bishop's discussions were there about how to help this YM?

How many other youth wondered why is it alright for ? To play sport on Sunday and I can't.

And finally how many other talented individuals are out their that could of gone pro but decided to keep the Lords law of the Sabbath instead? It seem the moment you go pro all is forgiven, we'll put you on a pedalstool and whisper to our friends " did you know ??? Is a Mormon?

[Traveler]

....

How do you guys feel about having someone else do things for you on the Sabbath?

.. ..

As I posted earlier - I believe the Sabbath was given to man as a day of rest - not meaning laziness but a rest that is a type and shadow of being in the rest of G-d. Thus I believe the Sabbath is our gateway into understanding and experiencing eternity in this life - getting to know what it is like being with G-d. Jesus said that the greatest in the Kingdom of G-d are the servants. Being of service to others - what better thing to do on the Sabbath. I would like to be the one serving others.

I am not sure if being paid money for what we do is an actual act of service. I met a young college student working summers at an exclusive restaurant at a tourist hot spot. Often he would have to work on Sundays. But he took all his earning on Sunday (tips and wages) and donated them as Fast Offerings. He told me that Sunday was his biggest tip day and often was more than what he received for the rest of the week.

His personal sacrifices paid interesting dividends in ways other than money - not only was he personally happy; he was very well liked by the community of workers as well as restaurant patrons, had an impact on the local members and was personally responsible for the baptisms of a rather large number of individuals that found themselves in associations with him. I was personally inspired by many things concerning this young man; thinking I should be more like him. I have often thought that being around such has to be a lot like being around Jesus.

Which brings me to my point - If Jesus was to personally visit you this Sunday - What ever you feel necessary to change for him being around - likely is good insight into how to make your personal Sabbath more meaningful.

The Traveler

[Dravin]

The argument that he is a professional therefore it is ok to play on the sabbath is only half valid. You see in order to become a professional you have to play for many years at a high level and I don't know about the US but here that means playing on the sabbath at a very young age.

In the US, speaking of American football, high school games are traditionally played on Friday and college games are traditionally played on Saturday.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Dravin

[Guest]

In the US, speaking of American football, high school games are traditionally played on Friday and college games are traditionally played on Saturday.

It's the same for soccer and basketball in school sports. But soccer clubs usually have most games on Saturdays and a very few on Sundays (I haven't yet had a season with more than 2 Sunday games) unless you're in the travel team. Travel teams usually have half their games on Sundays.

[Drpepper]

As I posted earlier - I believe the Sabbath was given to man as a day of rest - not meaning laziness but a rest that is a type and shadow of being in the rest of G-d. Thus I believe the Sabbath is our gateway into understanding and experiencing eternity in this life - getting to know what it is like being with G-d. Jesus said that the greatest in the Kingdom of G-d are the servants. Being of service to others - what better thing to do on the Sabbath. I would like to be the one serving others.

I am not sure if being paid money for what we do is an actual act of service. I met a young college student working summers at an exclusive restaurant at a tourist hot spot. Often he would have to work on Sundays. But he took all his earning on Sunday (tips and wages) and donated them as Fast Offerings. He told me that Sunday was his biggest tip day and often was more than what he received for the rest of the week.

His personal sacrifices paid interesting dividends in ways other than money - not only was he personally happy; he was very well liked by the community of workers as well as restaurant patrons, had an impact on the local members and was personally responsible for the baptisms of a rather large number of individuals that found themselves in associations with him. I was personally inspired by many things concerning this young man; thinking I should be more like him. I have often thought that being around such has to be a lot like being around Jesus.

Which brings me to my point - If Jesus was to personally visit you this Sunday - What ever you feel necessary to change for him being around - likely is good insight into how to make your personal Sabbath more meaningful.

The Traveler

If I was a born again Christian I would say " praise Jesus brother". well written.

[Backroads]

Got through page 5.

I can't help but feel that work-or-not situations are being used to judge unrighteously. Why does Sports Pro get the boot? Is it because it's more glamorous than the hotel maid? Because it makes such-n-such money, does it automatically become frivilous compared to other careers?

If we're going with the Lord understands if you are required to work on a Sunday, where are we drawing a line? Is there some income level where the ox can wait another day in the mire?

It's either excusable to work on Sundays or it's not. Type of job should not matter.

As for whether we should let GAs in based on something they did or did not do where we don't know the details, well, I say let's assume they became a GA for a reason and not to try to pick them apart.

[Backroads]

It seem the moment you go pro all is forgiven, we'll put you on a pedalstool and whisper to our friends " did you know ??? Is a Mormon?

This needs an "amen".

I've seen in this thread the possibility of these Mormons in the public eye serving through their Sunday activities.

Now, a sports star who is a Mormon is a good role model.

A doctor saving lives on Sunday is a great thing.

A cop protecting my community on Sunday is nothing but a boon.

But...

why are their activities so much more important on Sundays? I don't think they decided to work on Sundays so they could show off honoring the Sabbath in a less-conventional way or to inspire.

Sunday just happens to be part of the job.

[Guest]

Sunday just happens to be part of the job.

That's the whole discussion about... They chose that job. They can always choose another job that doesn't require Sundays... especially if it's JUST entertainment work like football. And especially if God may decide to call you to be a GA.

I don't get the whole discussion to be honest. I see it as the same thing as having a Fat GA giving a talk on the Word of Wisdom... People try to make big bones about something that seems the Church is teaching inconsistent things instead of just focusing on our responsibility to teaching our own children. Children who are taught the meaning of the Sabbath will not see a pro-athlete GA and think, oh! I shouldn't keep the Sabbath holy!

[Backroads]

Exactly! Doctors choose to be doctors knowing full-well they probably will wind up working an occasional Sunday. Heck, my daughter was born on a Sunday, and her pediatrician (who has a private practice to avoid weekend work) STILL had to come in that day.

Are there big-time blessings for those who work hard to avoid Sunday work? I would say so, yes. I do not want to discount that.

But... life's a pretty big thing. It's hard to put avoiding work on the Sabbath as the priority above everything else.

[Drpepper]

Lets throw a hypothetical out there then.

You're a Bishop, and you have a promising young man in your ward who has an amazing sporting talent in football but will need to compete on Sundays in order to progress through the ranks and perhaps one day make it as a professional.

What is your counsel to him regarding the sabbath day? and why?

Edited October 22, 2013 by Drpepper

[Anddenex]

What is your counsel to him regarding the sabbath day? and why?

To try to help him understand the importance of keeping the Sabbath day holy, and to make the decision to no longer play sports on Sunday.

Simply because this is what the Lord commanded.

[Anddenex]

That's the whole discussion about... They chose that job. They can always choose another job that doesn't require Sundays... especially if it's JUST entertainment work like football. And especially if God may decide to call you to be a GA.

I don't get the whole discussion to be honest. I see it as the same thing as having a Fat GA giving a talk on the Word of Wisdom... People try to make big bones about something that seems the Church is teaching inconsistent things instead of just focusing on our responsibility to teaching our own children. Children who are taught the meaning of the Sabbath will not see a pro-athlete GA and think, oh! I shouldn't keep the Sabbath holy!

Let's present a different analogy Anatess, how would our children respond if they saw a GA giving a talk on the Word of Wisdom who on the weekends enjoyed getting drunk?

And yes, children who are taught the meaning of the Sabbath will use other people to disobey, especially if this person is a leader.

Yes, our leaders have a huge impact on the youth, this is why we were always taught, while going through seminary training, "students are watching your example." As one seminary teacher said, as he was coming out of a video store with a few movies, "Brother (insert name), what movies do you have in there?" This brother knew his seminary students were checking to see if he had any inappropriate movies he was about to watch. Why, because they are perceptive to what we teach and what we actually do.

[Drpepper]

To try to help him understand the importance of keeping the Sabbath day holy, and to make the decision to no longer play sports on Sunday.

Simply because this is what the Lord commanded.

Ahh careful Anddenx- that counsel could jeopardise our future investment. Cause if he does turn pro and make a name for himself we are going to invest in the fact his a Mormon, make videos and send him around to firesides as the guest speaker...

[Anddenex]

Are we sending mixed messages to our youth?

Absolutely. You've hit a sensitive nerve with this one. We have a football player here in aus that has been glorified for the last few years and yes he has his own church video. The argument that he is a professional therefore it is ok to play on the sabbath is only half valid. You see in order to become a professional you have to play for many years at a high level and I don't know about the US but here that means playing on the sabbath at a very young age. So here's the question. While this man was a deacon, how many YM's presidents spent time praying about how they could get this YM to church and not play sport on a Sunday? When he was a teacher how many Bishop's discussions were there about how to help this YM?

How many other youth wondered why is it alright for ? To play sport on Sunday and I can't.

And finally how many other talented individuals are out their that could of gone pro but decided to keep the Lords law of the Sabbath instead? It seem the moment you go pro all is forgiven, we'll put you on a pedalstool and whisper to our friends " did you know ??? Is a Mormon?

Thank you Drpepper for your thoughts. What you have expressed is exactly what I am feeling in my heart with this.

We seek to teach our youth that they should attend their meetings, Sabbath meetings over sports. We have a youth right now who hasn't been to church because of sports and other things. In meetings, it was always discussed, how do we help him to attend church?

I agree, we are sending mixed messages, and then again I free admit the Lord's ways are higher than mine and his thoughts are higher than mine also. I am still learning :)

[classylady]

Let's present a different analogy Anatess, how would our children respond if they saw a GA giving a talk on the Word of Wisdom who on the weekends enjoyed getting drunk?

.

I don't want to open a can of worms, because sin is sin. But, working on Sunday will not keep you from getting a temple recommend and going to the temple. But, disobeying the word of wisdom will.

[Drpepper]

I dont have a problem with the recent call of the GA. If his repented they can call him as the next prophet for all I care. If half the members in my ward new what i got up to before i joined the church im sure i would be taken out the front of the chapel and stoned to death :)

[Guest]

Let's present a different analogy Anatess, how would our children respond if they saw a GA giving a talk on the Word of Wisdom who on the weekends enjoyed getting drunk?

And yes, children who are taught the meaning of the Sabbath will use other people to disobey, especially if this person is a leader.

Yes, our leaders have a huge impact on the youth, this is why we were always taught, while going through seminary training, "students are watching your example." As one seminary teacher said, as he was coming out of a video store with a few movies, "Brother (insert name), what movies do you have in there?" This brother knew his seminary students were checking to see if he had any inappropriate movies he was about to watch. Why, because they are perceptive to what we teach and what we actually do.

I know what my children is going to say... He needs to stop drinking. Simple really.

This is an ever present example in my family. My husband didn't go on a mission, didn't marry an LDS, and didn't marry in the temple...

Guess what I'm teaching my children...

I really don't see your point, Andennex. I truly don't. Each and every one of us has our own journey to God. My children are taught in my house what God desires. They get to use their agency to follow it to the best of their abilities in their own understanding, in their own unique circumstances. They know that. Or they should.

If my kids tell me I'm going to go get drunk because the bishop works at the bar,or even, I'm not going on a mission because dad didn't go on a mission, I'm going to smack them upside the head. Because they should know better. They are not living their father's life, they are living theirs. So using their dad as a convenient excuse is going to earn them a head smacking.

Edited October 23, 2013 by anatess

[Zeitgeist]

I tend to agree with the recent pro-Sabbath comments. As a child I once heard a story about a man who asked a wise teacher how to set priorities for the many competing demands in his life. The wise man answered, "Put love for God first and above all things, and everything else will find its place." A pleasant (but inverted) variation of the old advice on budgets: watch the pence and the pounds will take care of themselves.

What does the Church teach about recreation on the Sabbath? Would an hour run in the early morning be sinful? A walk through the woods? An all-day hike to the top of Half Dome at Yosemite? A hard work-out on a rowing machine?