Would I, as a non-mormon enjoy living in Utah?


tommypman
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I don't live in Utah but i do live in an area that is heavily populated with LDS people. I do want to say that living here is similar to living any where else. There are good people and not so good people. The only difference is that there are more businesses closed on sunday and more family friendly places available.

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What a novel concept - that you can communicate a little about who you are in how you dress and that somebody will actually pay attention. :o

The Traveler

Hee hee. I read all that about dress and wondered who the poster was dealing with. I have students with red hair one week and blue hair the next. People who wear sweats and jeans when they don't have to work after class, and students who come in nice clothes because they've got to deal with the public at the reference desk after class. There are students with nose rings, lip rings, eyebrow rings, and big plugs in their ears. Quite a few of my students, male and female, have tattoos. If I go to a store and the clerk looks like that, it's no biggie (tho I may think the clerk is lucky to have a job).

I treat them all with respect. It's not that hard.

I'm old enough to remember having to dress up to go to the store, because if you didn't, you might not get waited on, or, as a person of color, you would be the last to get waited on. So, a ripped jean or eyebrow ring doesn't faze me. It's not like we're judging people on the basis of something really serious, like skin color. ^_^

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Hee hee. I read all that about dress and wondered who the poster was dealing with. I have students with red hair one week and blue hair the next. People who wear sweats and jeans when they don't have to work after class, and students who come in nice clothes because they've got to deal with the public at the reference desk after class. There are students with nose rings, lip rings, eyebrow rings, and big plugs in their ears. Quite a few of my students, male and female, have tattoos. If I go to a store and the clerk looks like that, it's no biggie (tho I may think the clerk is lucky to have a job).

I treat them all with respect. It's not that hard.

I'm old enough to remember having to dress up to go to the store, because if you didn't, you might not get waited on, or, as a person of color, you would be the last to get waited on. So, a ripped jean or eyebrow ring doesn't faze me. It's not like we're judging people on the basis of something really serious, like skin color. ^_^

Very interesting comment. I am also old enough to remember having to dress up to go to store for the same reason. But it was a little different for me because I an not what you call a person of color. Plus my parents were prominent members of the community that were well respected. I also had to deal with a community telling me that they were quite certain that my parents would not approve of the way I was dressed or acting.

I remember sneaking out late one night with friends to toilet paper someone's house and being caught by police. Everyone was sent home but the officer looked at me and said, "Aren't you ---- son? He would want me to personally take you home."

It was never much of a jump in logic for me to understand as a youth what it meant to be a son of G-d. :(

A saying of my father was, "What you do looks like you."

The Traveler

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But that's not what I said about Islam. I said, that unlike Islam, LDS believes you can be whatever religion and go to heaven.

You said:

You'll do just fine especially since, unlike Islam, it is written specifically in our articles of faith that:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Which I concluded that you meant that under Islam you have no other choice other than to convert to Islam.

I've never heard of anyone teaching that you can be of any religion and go to heaven either! It's like saying, hey we are the restored Church of God, we have the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ but that's ok you can still be a Satanist because we believe all people go to heaven! Are you not getting confused with all will be resurrected before the Judgment?

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You said:

You'll do just fine especially since, unlike Islam, it is written specifically in our articles of faith that:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Which I concluded that you meant that under Islam you have no other choice other than to convert to Islam.

I've never heard of anyone teaching that you can be of any religion and go to heaven either! It's like saying, hey we are the restored Church of God, we have the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ but that's ok you can still be a Satanist because we believe all people go to heaven! Are you not getting confused with all will be resurrected before the Judgment?

Nope. Not confused at all.

It is not your religion that bars you from heaven. It is what you do with the knowledge that you have that bars you from heaven. If you're a Satanist because that is what you were taught and you've never heard of anything else, never even know who Jesus Christ is, you will be judged according to that knowledge. But LDS are assured that they will receive that knowledge in the Spirit World if they haven't on earth. So it is written in our articles of Faith that 1.) Truth (that which is of good report) can be found everywhere, including other religions, 2.) People may worship according to those truths they find everywhere.

Both of those are so important to LDS that it is specifically written in its Articles of Faith. Those as well as our knowledge of the Spirit World demands that LDS remain fully in love (service) even to those of other faiths. It's not just a tolerance for them, it's love.

Edited by anatess
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Nope. Not confused at all.

It is not your religion that bars you from heaven. It is what you do with the knowledge that you have that bars you from heaven. If you're a Satanist because that is what you were taught and you've never heard of anything else, never even know who Jesus Christ is, you will be judged according to that knowledge. But LDS are assured that they will receive that knowledge in the Spirit World if they haven't on earth. So it is written in our articles of Faith that 1.) Truth (that which is of good report) can be found everywhere, including other religions, 2.) People may worship according to those truths they find everywhere.

Both of those are so important to LDS that it is specifically written in its Articles of Faith. Those as well as our knowledge of the Spirit World demands that LDS remain fully in love (service) even to those of other faiths. It's not just a tolerance for them, it's love.

Actually religion is necessary. In essence that is the message of the restoration - that there is only one way or path (or one true and living church or religion) whereby mankind can return to our Father. But we also learn from the restoration than the determination of one's religion can extend beyond this life through the atonement of Christ and proxy work within the temples.

But the Point of doctrine is important - there is only one true and living church through which salvation can come to man and as Joseph Smith was told in his first vision - no other church has the principles and ordinances of salvation.

The Traveler

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So it is written in our articles of Faith that 1.) Truth (that which is of good report) can be found everywhere, including other religions,

No, it isn't. I agree that things of good report can be found in other religions but if we're talking about what is written in the Articles of Faith, article 13 has written in it is that we seek after those things, it doesn't say they can be found everywhere.

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Nope. Not confused at all.

It is not your religion that bars you from heaven. It is what you do with the knowledge that you have that bars you from heaven. If you're a Satanist because that is what you were taught and you've never heard of anything else, never even know who Jesus Christ is, you will be judged according to that knowledge. But LDS are assured that they will receive that knowledge in the Spirit World if they haven't on earth. So it is written in our articles of Faith that 1.) Truth (that which is of good report) can be found everywhere, including other religions, 2.) People may worship according to those truths they find everywhere.

Both of those are so important to LDS that it is specifically written in its Articles of Faith. Those as well as our knowledge of the Spirit World demands that LDS remain fully in love (service) even to those of other faiths. It's not just a tolerance for them, it's love.

Your religion doesn't bar you from the resurrection, the atonement is a gift for all, but to gain access to heaven is where your religion becomes important. When at the Judgement seat, if you have not accepted or have rejected God's plan of salvation through the atonement of Jesus Christ do you think you are going to be accepted into the realms of glory?

Yes those who have had no knowledge of the gospel or of Jesus Christ will be given a second chance to accept the plan of salvation, but if they fail to accept it then they aren't going to receive the rewards of heaven.

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Oh, and in the workplace, Mormons have a common language and a common social pattern even if they aren't in the same congregation.

Fascinating. Can you elaborate?

So, a twist on the OP's question - I see the Temple Square missionaries and everyone is all smiling and happy talking to different ethnicities as they roam around the Square. My question is, on a day-to-day basis (as opposed to the tourist thing), how do Utahns treat blacks?

The first thing most blacks say to me when I say I'm Mormon is 'you know blacks couldn't be priests...' You can't get away from it. There's the belief that if Mormons wouldn't let black fully participate in the church, then they must be some hard core racists. And something kinda strange, there's almost an assumption that if you live in one of the 'white' states, you must *want* to live in one so you can avoid blacks.

If I moved to Utah, would people be 'missionary nice' on the outside, but inwardly, not want to invite me to their reindeer games? Also, do Utahns have different feelings for the South Pacific Islanders, who have been Mormon for awhile, and blacks, or do they dislike all non-whites in general?

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Fascinating. Can you elaborate?

So, a twist on the OP's question - I see the Temple Square missionaries and everyone is all smiling and happy talking to different ethnicities as they roam around the Square. My question is, on a day-to-day basis (as opposed to the tourist thing), how do Utahns treat blacks?

The first thing most blacks say to me when I say I'm Mormon is 'you know blacks couldn't be priests...' You can't get away from it. There's the belief that if Mormons wouldn't let black fully participate in the church, then they must be some hard core racists. And something kinda strange, there's almost an assumption that if you live in one of the 'white' states, you must *want* to live in one so you can avoid blacks.

If I moved to Utah, would people be 'missionary nice' on the outside, but inwardly, not want to invite me to their reindeer games? Also, do Utahns have different feelings for the South Pacific Islanders, who have been Mormon for awhile, and blacks, or do they dislike all non-whites in general?

In any large group you are going to have a variety of types and feelings. Since racism does exist it would be impossible to say that there are no racist Mormons (that would be an unbelievable statement) That being said I would expect it to be no more then what you expect in any random group (and I would personally expect less since being Mormon makes it less random)

Now lets talk about what it would take for an institution like the LDS church to hold on to something like the priesthood ban in spite of all the opposition leveled against it. The options that I see are...

It is either A: full of Racists who are supporting each other in their hate. (which is what everyone outside assumes)

or B: they are taking a stand on principle believing that they needed God permission to change it. (which is what the church told everyone)

We can examine the aftermath to see which one is more likely true...

If it was a group of racist people then change would have been slow in coming as the various groups fought and resisted. After all racists are such because they aren't exactly rational about race they aren't going to suddenly stop being irrational because someone told them to

If however it was principled stand and they were just waiting for permission to make the change then we can and would expect a rapid change.

Now dahlia you are a smart, well educated, lady. You are perfectly capable of looking into things. And this happened within our lifetimes.. So which of the two possibilities do you think is the closest match to what happened with the Mormons?

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You don't have to convince me. It's all the other people I run into who have this need to let me in on a secret - LDS didn't allow black priests - as if I wouldn't have heard about it. I do like the argument that the racists would have reacted. You'd probably have a schism in the church, which didn't happen.

You realize that the 'waiting for God to tell them different' thing isn't going to do it for most people. I understand the argument, just saying that it won't be enough for some people. Of course, those are the same people for which nothing is ever enough.

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You realize that the 'waiting for God to tell them different' thing isn't going to do it for most people. I understand the argument, just saying that it won't be enough for some people. Of course, those are the same people for which nothing is ever enough.

Right because because they are going to be locked in to there position as much as anyone else... But for those willing to look the response in the aftermath doesn't fit the worlds preconceived notion of that we are

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Having a parent who hails from Utah, as well as having spent several summers there, I felt the need to chime in.

Growing up LDS meant I was in a tiny minority in our tiny town. After listening to all the stories about Utah, being around cousins, aunts, uncles, and grandparents from Utah, I had the (mistaken) impression that everyone acted more Christ-like in Utah. What a wake up call I received!

I witnessed my aunt and grandmother in physical fights, I listened to cousins relate sexual encounters at the age of 15, and watched relatives conduct dishonest business activities. I am currently in a legal battle with a Utah relative over financial misconduct.

So, plain and simple, Utah Mormons are still human, they still act aggressively on the roads, they still lie to make money, and do all the "normal" things the rest of us humans do.

Don't get the impression you would be moving to Zion...in my opinion, its not!

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I have read through this entire thread, so I have no idea what everyone else responded. My response is: yes!

My husband and I seriously considered Cedar City, UT. The job he wanted fell through there and we ended up further north west in the country, but we loved Cedar City. The people were so nice! The town was beautiful, the area is so nice.

We spent time looking into the area and honestly, it seems like a great place to raise children, find a good community... and there are a lot of other Christian based churches to attend too. :)

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