Divine Role of Women

[gem2477]

As we are taught, a woman's divine work in this life is to have children and nuture them A man's calling is to the priesthood.

I am a 30 year old single woman who can't have children. Am I just not going to be able to fullfill my calling as a woman because of my physical problems? Do I just not get to do what is the most important thing in life?

don't say I will get blessed in the next life if I am faithful. that don't erase the pain I feel now.

[Guest]

You can support the priesthood and nurture those around you without bearing children. At 30, your time isn't over yet, and you could still have marriage and stepparenthood, adoption, etc. in your future. Even if you don't, as you fill callings and serve those around you, you are fulfilling your calling as a woman. I'm sorry for the pain you are feeling. I imagine it's difficult and lonely at times. I hope you can find peace and fulfillment.

[Quin]

If raising children is TRULY what you yourself wish to do... There are countless ways to fulfill that, without being able to carry & birth them, yourself. Surrogacy, adoption, fostering, kinship provider, mentoring, teaching, nannying, governess, coaching, advocacy, social work, peds medicine, counseling, etc.

Not all women are suited for motherhood, though, and that's equally important/valid IMHO. I have a girlfriend who HATES kids. She is a lovely person, but would be an awful mother and is very self aware about that. She knows it, and is fine with that. I in no way, shape, or form believe she's not fulfilling her calling as a woman in this life. Just because a woman CAN have children doesn't mean she SHOULD. She has talents and strengths in OTHER areas.

(Meanwhile there are countless women who would make amazing mothers, who can't be for a variety of reasons).

Point being... You can be a success as a woman with kids or without.

Similarly... A lot of women die before they're even given a shot at motherhood. Girls and young women die all the time. Women -totally fertile/able to have kids biologically their own- die before having children even as they're setting up their lives in order to have children (the right man). Women (even) die in childbirth, or from complications during their pregnancy. They're not failures.

Your value as a human being, as a child of god, is NOT solely your ability to reproduce. Period. There is FAR more to YOU (and every other person) than their ability to procreate. Or lack thereof.

If you want kids, and are lucky enough not to die before that can happen, you can have them. It may take a bit of work, but it takes women who are otherwise healthy a bit of work, more often than not, as well. Setting up a life that can support children (physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually), with a caring husband, in a safe locale...,often takes years and years, at great expense. Even so, that doesn't guarantee there won't be miscarriages, infertility treatments, years of trying and failing, or tragedy (death, divorce, disease).

If you don't want kids, then there is more for you to do.

We're not bacteria, whose only purpose in life is to make more of us.

Heavenly Father made us so much more than that.

Q

[gem2477]

If raising children is TRULY what you yourself wish to do... There are countless ways to fulfill that, without being able to carry & birth them, yourself. Surrogacy, adoption, fostering, kinship provider, mentoring, teaching, nannying, governess, coaching, advocacy, social work, peds medicine, counseling, etc.

Not all women are suited for motherhood, though, and that's equally important/valid IMHO. I have a girlfriend who HATES kids. She is a lovely person, but would be an awful mother and is very self aware about that. She knows it, and is fine with that. I in no way, shape, or form believe she's not fulfilling her calling as a woman in this life. Just because a woman CAN have children doesn't mean she SHOULD. She has talents and strengths in OTHER areas.

(Meanwhile there are countless women who would make amazing mothers, who can't be for a variety of reasons).

Point being... You can be a success as a woman with kids or without.

Similarly... A lot of women die before they're even given a shot at motherhood. Girls and young women die all the time. Women -totally fertile/able to have kids biologically their own- die before having children even as they're setting up their lives in order to have children (the right man). Women (even) die in childbirth, or from complications during their pregnancy. They're not failures.

Your value as a human being, as a child of god, is NOT solely your ability to reproduce. Period. There is FAR more to YOU (and every other person) than their ability to procreate. Or lack thereof.

If you want kids, and are lucky enough not to die before that can happen, you can have them. It may take a bit of work, but it takes women who are otherwise healthy a bit of work, more often than not, as well. Setting up a life that can support children (physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually), with a caring husband, in a safe locale...,often takes years and years, at great expense. Even so, that doesn't guarantee there won't be miscarriages, infertility treatments, years of trying and failing, or tragedy (death, divorce, disease).

If you don't want kids, then there is more for you to do.

We're not bacteria, whose only purpose in life is to make more of us.

Heavenly Father made us so much more than that.

Q

Yes but the church never talks about personal improvement to women: it's just get married and stay home with your kids. It's kind of the end all be all in the church for women. They equate the priesthood to motherhood. At least guys can get the priesthood with out consideration of personal circumstances like being able to have kids or not.

[Vort]

Yes but the church never talks about personal improvement to women:

My conversations with my wife, daughter, and sisters convince me the opposite is true.

Edited November 4, 2013 by pam

[beefche]

Yeah, Vort, I agree with you. All the RS meetings and even General Conference talks for women are how to improve onself. Of course, some of that improvement is how to improve being a good mother. But, as a woman in middle age who only recently married for the first time and unable to have children, I still learn how to improve myself through those talks.

[Backroads]

Yes but the church never talks about personal improvement to women: it's just get married and stay home with your kids. It's kind of the end all be all in the church for women. They equate the priesthood to motherhood. At least guys can get the priesthood with out consideration of personal circumstances like being able to have kids or not.

Not in my experience...

Any chance this could be chalked up to your personal experience and interpretation?

I'm currently living in a very well-to-do ward (yay for living in wealthy grandma's basement!) where Relief Society often holds opinions of professional women and how to serve these doctors and lawyers as well as the mothers.

Since college, I've had Church-related woman events that talk about education, work, car maintenence, etc.

[Jenamarie]

My stake in WA had an entire two-day symposium specifically for women looking to enter the workplace. They went over how to put together a resume, the do's and don't's of cover-letters, interviewing skills, etc. I felt very "improved" by the end of it.

[Jane_Doe]

Yes but the church never talks about personal improvement to women: it's just get married and stay home with your kids. It's kind of the end all be all in the church for women. They equate the priesthood to motherhood. At least guys can get the priesthood with out consideration of personal circumstances like being able to have kids or not.

I would agree that it that the get-married-at-19-stay-at-home-birth-7-kids stereotype gets a lot of attention, both culturally and over the pulpit. Personally, I do find it irritating at points, feeling that it's a human obsession with just 1 of MANY ways there are to be a woman of God.

Women have the Gold-like potential to be phenomenal nurtures. Note: nurture does NOT equal reproductive machine. Consider the following:

1) If all a lady were to do was gestate a baby for 9 months, and then drop the child off on a street corner, who much of a nurturer is she? Not very much. (Note: I’m not dissing ladies who give kids up for adoption—that’s a separate domain).

2) A woman who picks the child up, and despite not being biologically related to them, she pores her heart into raising that child: showing what it’s like to be a good person, and to love God. I would say that that person is a great nurturer.

3) Say a lady doesn’t have a kid at home. But she loves her nieces, she works in primary, helping all those children learn about God and be better people. Despite not having legal custody of these children, she inspires them and stands as a witness of Christ in all times and in all places. I would say that she’s a great nurturer.

4) Hint: not all children are less than 18 years old. We are ALL children- the children of God. No matter if you 5, 50, or 500, we are all infants compared to His development. We all need to be nurturered (physically, emotionally, spiritually) to learn how to be better people and to love God. Women are PHENOMENAL at this! You ever notice how it’s the Releif Society’s primary duty to give support, visit the sick, and bring joy to those in need? All those “Christian” duties? It ain’t a small or unimportant work order.

Empathy, love, charity, long suffering, that is what it takes to be a nurturer: to raise up the hearts of humanity, regardless of whether their age, circumstances, or biological relationship to you. THAT is what it is to be a woman of God. And your potential to be this person is not dependent on any one else (including a husband).

Edited November 4, 2013 by Jane_Doe

[Vort]

Thanks for the edit, pam. I actually thought I nuked that post. Maybe I dd it right when you were editing it, and your edit won out? I generally do not comment on RS forum posts, seeing as how, you know, I'm not part of the RS.

[Guest]

Okay gals... when asked about the Divine Role of Women under the Power of the Priesthood, we shouldn't dodge the question by talking about developing talents. Men and women both need to develop talents, have an education, balance a checkbook, etc. etc. But this does not answer the question - for a woman who can't bear children, what is her role under Priesthood Power?

A lot of the previous posters touched on this already - we can't all physically bear children, but that doesn't mean we get to be exempted, or worse, disqualified from fulfilling this calling.

Let me start by looking at Priesthood Power and Gender Roles in the general sense. I can look at the Plan of Salvation as a big circle with Heavenly Father on top. We come from Heavenly Father, we go through the Plan for our Salvation by going around the circle through birth, mortality, death, resurrection, judgement, and ultimately back to Heavenly Father. This whole circle is administered through the Power of the Priesthood.

Now, this cirle has 2 gates. The first gate is our passage from pre-mortal existence, through the veil, to mortality where we are separated from Heavenly Father. The second gate is our passage from morality, through the veil, to post-mortality back to Heavenly Father.

Under the Power of the Priesthood, women are charged with opening the first gate. We receive the divine authority to bear children with our marital covenant. But, because of the imperfection of our mortal bodies, we may not be able to physically or psychologically bear children. This does not mean we get to be exempt from the calling. Part of this primary responsibility is to teach children the way of God. These children are born with the Light of Christ but without memories of their Heavenly Father. We are to nurture them both physically and spiritually and teach them so that they may qualify to receive life-saving ordinances as they go around the circle of the Plan of our Salvation. This primary responsibility is not limited to children that we physically birthed ourselves. This responsibility applies to ALL people who need physical and spiritual succor.

Under the Power of the Priesthood, men are charged with opening the 2nd gate. Men receive this divine authority little by little as they progress in the offices of the Priesthood. Men, therefore, have the primary responsibility of presiding over the family, organizing the Church, performing baptisms, sealings, and all the life-saving ordinances that bring us from morality through death, to post-mortal existence back to Heavenly Father.

As you can see from these tasks, even though each gender is given the primary responsibility to accomplish certain things, both genders have to work in unity to go through the full circle. Women cannot open the 1st gate and prepare children for life-saving ordinances without the help of Men just as Men cannot open the 2nd gate and perform life-saving ordinances without the Women. They are, in every way, working in tandem under the Power of the Priesthood.

So, yeah, we need to develop talents, gain an education, be able to support ourselves with a career, etc... but all this should be done with an eye to performing our primary responsibilities to the best of our abilities. Because, how can we nurture children if we can't even feed ourselves? How can we prepare children for baptism when we are not well-versed in the gospel ourselves? How can we be of service to all children who may need our help if we don't have talents that we can provide? Etc. etc.

Hope this helps.

[gem2477]

Yeah, Vort, I agree with you. All the RS meetings and even General Conference talks for women are how to improve onself. Of course, some of that improvement is how to improve being a good mother. But, as a woman in middle age who only recently married for the first time and unable to have children, I still learn how to improve myself through those talks.

I would say 99% is about being a good mother / wife / homemaker. Maybe a tiny spiritual stuff put in there.

[gem2477]

My conversations with my wife, daughter, and sisters convince me the opposite is true.

Well, I've never been taught anything I could use in the real world, like education, job help, basic skills, etc. in RS. All of it is about motherhood and being a wife. It makes me not want to go to a family ward when I am too old for the singles ward. It would be too hard for me. I couldn't be able to take being infantisized by the older ladies cause I am not married, either.

Edited November 5, 2013 by gem2477

[Guest]

Well, I've never been taught anything I could use in the real world, like education, job help, basic skills, etc. in RS. All of it is about motherhood and being a wife. It makes me not want to go to a family ward when I am too old for the singles ward. It would be too hard for me. I couldn't be able to take being infantisized by the older ladies cause I am not married, either.

Okay, I don't understand this. The Church is where you get Spiritual instruction. It's not really focused on temporal stuff except for how it affects Spiritual stuff. So, I'm not sure what you were expecting out of RS. If you need education, job help, basic survival skills, you go to temporal places like the Community Center. They have circulars going around in my town every month on the next set of classes. They have pregnancy classes, breastfeeding classes, arts and crafts, basic computer skills, how to play tennis, yoga, etc. etc. etc.

[lagarthaaz]

Well, I've never been taught anything I could use in the real world, like education, job help, basic skills, etc. in RS. All of it is about motherhood and being a wife. It makes me not want to go to a family ward when I am too old for the singles ward. It would be too hard for me. I couldn't be able to take being infantisized by the older ladies cause I am not married, either.

Really? I lived as a single parent in the church for many years so I know what that feeling of separateness from the mainstream is like. I still feel it sometimes, but it's more about 'me' and who I am (I have found it hard to socialize in group situations since I was a child). As a young woman who came from a very troubled, poverty-stricken and dysfunctional family background, I had little in the way of self-esteem, education or life-skills when I joined the church.

I can honestly say it was Relief Society lessons that planted the seeds of self-improvement and gave me the strength to get out of an abusive marriage, get an education, to consider myself a worthwhile daughter of God, to find myself in serving others, and to improve myself spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically. And yes, on a domestic level, it also helped me to be a better mother and wife and equipped me with some skills to run an orderly, loving home in my second marriage for the last fourteen years. All of these things have also helped me to help others.

And how many times do the lessons remind us as women that we should improve and equip ourselves with education and life-skills, for both self-improvement and to be able to provide for ourselves and any children should the need arise?

Having said all that, it's not the women in RS who made the difference, since I still suffer from 'otherness' syndrome and I find most women in RS have their established friendship groups of which I am not a part. But as for the lessons from the manual, I certainly read them myself and while some focus on the 'motherhood' topics, most are about improving ourselves spiritually.

Just as in any class in church, we often only get out of it what we put in - and that includes reading and studying the lesson materials ourselves and applying it to our individual circumstances in life.

[lagarthaaz]

Current lesson manual - not many lessons focus solely on 'being a wife and mother'.

Chapter 1 Learning by Faith

Chapter 2 Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost

Chapter 3 Lifelong Conversion: Continuing to Advance in the Principles of Truth

Chapter 4 Strengthened by the Power of the Holy Ghost

Chapter 5 The Grand Destiny of the Faithful

Chapter 6 Becoming Perfect before the Lord: “A Little Better Day by Day”

Chapter 7 Faithfulness in Times of Trial: “From the Shadows into the Glorious Sunshine”

Chapter 8 “Search Me, O God, and Know My Heart”

Chapter 9 Sacred Family Relationships

Chapter 10 “Come into the Temples”

Chapter 11 “I Seek Not Mine Own Will, but the Will of the Father”

Chapter 12 Tithing, a Law for Our Protection and Advancement

Chapter 13 Relief Society: True Charity and Pure Religion

Chapter 14 “With God All Things Are Possible”

Chapter 15 Faithful, Energetic Service in the Kingdom of God

Chapter 16 “That We May Become One” L

Chapter 17 Priesthood—“for the Salvation of the Human Family”

Chapter 18 Church Leadership and Selfless Service

Chapter 19 Missionary Work: “To Reach Every Human Heart”

Chapter 20 The Kingdom of God Moves Forward

Chapter 21 Loving God More Than We Love the World

Chapter 22 Doing Good to Others

Chapter 23 The Prophet Joseph Smith

Chapter 24 Reflections on the Mission of Jesus Christ

[lagarthaaz]

Have you read Daughters in My Kingdom yet? I personally have loved reading it. But I'm one who gets most of my personal nurturing in the church from principles I read in books, rather than from people.

https://www.lds.org/relief-society/daughters-in-my-kingdom?lang=eng

[Quin]

Well, I've never been taught anything I could use in the real world, like education, job help, basic skills, etc. in RS. All of it is about motherhood and being a wife. It makes me not want to go to a family ward when I am too old for the singles ward. It would be too hard for me. I couldn't be able to take being infantisized by the older ladies cause I am not married, either.

Aha.

I theeeeenk I am beginning to see the disconnect, here.

Most of us here that are totally confused by what you're talking about are IN Family Wards!

It makes total sense that in the YSA ward the RS is focusing on important things to consider pre marriage. In helping people to define what they want out of a partner, life, kids, etc.

Meanwhile over in our Family Wards the focus is more on how to BALANCE life. How not to get totally sucked in, burnt out, exhausted... But to seek self improvement, personal and interpersonal enrichment.

Meaning each RS is focusing (in general) on helping members to achieve what they DON'T have.

Single & totally focused on self = thinking about marriage, motherhood, family.

Married (or single parent) = thinking about how to focus on one's self.

Q

[Quin]

Well, I've never been taught anything I could use in the real world, like education, job help, basic skills, etc. in RS. All of it is about motherhood and being a wife. It makes me not want to go to a family ward when I am too old for the singles ward. It would be too hard for me. I couldn't be able to take being infantisized by the older ladies cause I am not married, either.

Ummmm... We don't do that.

Q

[applepansy]

I would say 99% is about being a good mother / wife / homemaker. Maybe a tiny spiritual stuff put in there.

I don't agree. Pres. Hinckley talked frequently about higher education for women.

My sister didn't marry until after she was 30 and children after 31. She has four boys and the oldest is leaving on a mission this month. Don't count yourself out yet.

If you need some encouragement from a single LDS woman then read Sheri Dew's books and talks.

I would say 99% of what we're taught is about being a good woman. Which applies to what you want it to. If you're only looking for what applies to mother/wife/homemaker that's what you'll find but if you broaden your perspective you will soon realize it all applies to single/working/childless too.

[applepansy]

Well, I've never been taught anything I could use in the real world, like education, job help, basic skills, etc. in RS. All of it is about motherhood and being a wife. It makes me not want to go to a family ward when I am too old for the singles ward. It would be too hard for me. I couldn't be able to take being infantisized by the older ladies cause I am not married, either.

This has confused me too. If you need help with education, job help, etc. contact the employment specialist in your ward. Or if there is an employment center close just drop in. Help with temporal affairs is available in its proper place. Sunday is not the proper place. RS meetings are where we learn to grow spiritually.

Again... Please don't take this as criticism of you personally, because it applies to everyone. We all see what we expect to see. We hear what we expect to hear. If we don't open our spiritual ears we won't hear what Heavenly Father wants us to hear.

Our family ward is a mix of affluent and less affluent (although the percentages of each are changing). We have professional women and students and mothers. No one is "infantisized" ever! Don't judge before you attend. If you go looking for a certain behavior you'll find it, so be careful what you look for.

[Dravin]

I would say 99% of what we're taught is about being a good woman. Which applies to what you want it to. If you're only looking for what applies to mother/wife/homemaker that's what you'll find but if you broaden your perspective you will soon realize it all applies to single/working/childless too.

That was one of my thoughts reading over this, obviously my experience is from the male end of the spectrum, but spiritual improvement benefits us regardless of where we are in life. Additionally, the qualifies of a good husband and/or father in Christ are the qualities of a good man in Christ (same applies to wife, mother, and woman). The teachings are principle based and can usually be applied regardless of where we are in life.

[gem2477]

Current lesson manual - not many lessons focus solely on 'being a wife and mother'.

Chapter 1 Learning by Faith

Chapter 2 Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost

Chapter 3 Lifelong Conversion: Continuing to Advance in the Principles of Truth

Chapter 4 Strengthened by the Power of the Holy Ghost

Chapter 5 The Grand Destiny of the Faithful

Chapter 6 Becoming Perfect before the Lord: “A Little Better Day by Day”

Chapter 7 Faithfulness in Times of Trial: “From the Shadows into the Glorious Sunshine”

Chapter 8 “Search Me, O God, and Know My Heart”

Chapter 9 Sacred Family Relationships

Chapter 10 “Come into the Temples”

Chapter 11 “I Seek Not Mine Own Will, but the Will of the Father”

Chapter 12 Tithing, a Law for Our Protection and Advancement

Chapter 13 Relief Society: True Charity and Pure Religion

Chapter 14 “With God All Things Are Possible”

Chapter 15 Faithful, Energetic Service in the Kingdom of God

Chapter 16 “That We May Become One” L

Chapter 17 Priesthood—“for the Salvation of the Human Family”

Chapter 18 Church Leadership and Selfless Service

Chapter 19 Missionary Work: “To Reach Every Human Heart”

Chapter 20 The Kingdom of God Moves Forward

Chapter 21 Loving God More Than We Love the World

Chapter 22 Doing Good to Others

Chapter 23 The Prophet Joseph Smith

Chapter 24 Reflections on the Mission of Jesus Christ

They have an amazing ability to put in motherhood / marriage / homemaking into it, whether it has anything to do with the topic. Believe me.

You haven't had a lesson where teachers talk about something different? There are also weeks where the RS Presidency choose and which they don't use the manual.

[gem2477]

Ummmm... We don't do that.

Q

LOL yes you guys do. I have multiple stories I could share. We got a new bishopric. Our new second councilor said that he was going to have to watch himself to make sure that he doesn't treat us like children. That shouldn't be a problem at all if we were treated like adulits, married or not.

[beefche]

LOL yes you guys do. I have multiple stories I could share. We got a new bishopric. Our new second councilor said that he was going to have to watch himself to make sure that he doesn't treat us like children. That shouldn't be a problem at all if we were treated like adulits, married or not.

No, that is YOUR experience. It's not mine nor is it Quin's nor is it every single woman in the church.