Spanish in America


Bini
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It's been generations already, this topic isn't something new, but I'm wondering how everyone feels about Spanish quickly becoming or already is the unofficial second language here in America. How do you, personally, feel about that?

I'm paraphrasing this but I read something that I got a chuckle out of:

A woman stands in the checkout line, chatting on her cellphone in another language. A man stands behind her, perturbed that she is not speaking English. When she finally gets off the phone he proceeds to make a comment, "I didn't want to say anything while you were on the phone with your friend but you're in America now, you should speak English." The woman smiles and says, "I'm speaking Navajo. If you want to speak English, go back to England."

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something like that would never fly in Canada, not that I think we treat our natives any better, but we like to pretend we do.

We also have a very different attitude towards foreigners

Never went to Quebec and was told to "parlas en francais" (not that I really can, despite living on the boarder of the province all my life, though I can read it and get the jist of what is being said, as I discovered at a French doll show)

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It's been generations already, this topic isn't something new, but I'm wondering how everyone feels about Spanish quickly becoming or already is the unofficial second language here in America. How do you, personally, feel about that?

I'm paraphrasing this but I read something that I got a chuckle out of:

A woman stands in the checkout line, chatting on her cellphone in another language. A man stands behind her, perturbed that she is not speaking English. When she finally gets off the phone he proceeds to make a comment, "I didn't want to say anything while you were on the phone with your friend but you're in America now, you should speak English." The woman smiles and says, "I'm speaking Navajo. If you want to speak English, go back to England."

I don't care what language someone speaks, so long as a) they don't expect me to understand them, and b) they don't expect me to pay for the requisite translations to enable them to get along in American society.

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It's really normal for borderlands to have dual languages. Go anywhere, and all along the border most people speak both languages, and signage is usually in both languages.

My work means I'm travelling 6mo out of the year.

In the SW (and farming heartlands with migratory workers), sure, Spanish is everywhere.

But in the NE meandering toward Quebec & down South in Cajun Country... It's French.

In the NW... Pick your PacRim Language; Vietnamese, Korean, Mandarin/Cantonese, Tagolog, Japonese... Not to mention a smack down of Ethiopian.

Pop into some of the mega-cities, though... And you've got EVERYTHING. Tons of Mideast (Arabic, Pashto, etc.) right now from refugees plus Hebrew & Italian from WWII (and pre existing, but the pre existing langurs prior to WWII without the big influx had already had a couple hundred years to mellow) . Asian. Russian. Albanian. Serbian. The list goes on.

I usually suspect that people complaining about dual languages near borders have never spent time traveling in other countries to see how flat out normal it is.

Q

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If on a vacation sure, speak whatever language you know, and do you best to try to speak the native tongue. If I were to move to a country and live their for more than one year, I would have already learned the language enough to speak it and read it.

If I lived in Mexico, I would learn spanish. If I lived in Brazil I would learn portuguese. If I lived in France I would learn french. If I lived in Russia I would learn to speak russian.

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I find that most people are irrational about the use of Spanish in the United States. When I ask my very liberal friends whether English should be the official language of the U.S., they all snarl that official languages are inherently racist and intrinsically evil and that I must be a bigot for even discussing such a wicked idea. But when I ask them whether English and Spanish should be co-official languages in the U.S., they smile warmly and tell me it's a really wonderful idea.

Puerto Rico declared Spanish its only official language in 1991. But my understanding is that two years later English was added as a co-official language.

Here in San Francisco the ballots are trilingual: English, Spanish, and Chinese.

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There is in my mind no problem in speaking Spanish in the USA. But there is a problem for anyone that is a citizen of the USA that has difficulty speaking English. The problem is across many lines from politics to education - they will be at a disadvantage.

But if someone that wants to be a citizen of the USA or live here long term but cannot comprehend the advantage of speaking English - I see no reason for anyone to go out of their way to make life difficult for them or to be unkind. But then if they asked someone for help (regardless of the circumstance) that cannot speak Spanish - there should be no hard feelings if the communication barrier limits the help they need.

The Traveler

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Oprimo número dos bugs the behemoth out of me. Why? Because, Filipinos who can't comprehend English are denied entry visas unless they're dependents of people who comprehend and speak English. That includes tourists! Because... US Embassy workers who interview you when you submit your application will not ask the questions in Filipino.

For me to be able to work in the US, I had to pass TOEFL!

Edited by anatess
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I was at the grocery store not too long ago at the checkout and the cashier and a customer were talking about Mexicans needing to speak English. "This is America!" I was right in front of them. I just laughed and told them I speak three languages. If you speak two languages, you're bilingual. If you speak three or more languages, you're multilingual. If you speak one language, you're an "American."

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Within 50 years, our nation will be a nation primarily of Hispanics, due to immigration and number of children born. So, Spanish may become the major language some day. Fortunately, I'm fluent in it, so I'm ready. Also, Catholics are great people, and I do not mind sharing America with them.

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I was at the grocery store not too long ago at the checkout and the cashier and a customer were talking about Mexicans needing to speak English. "This is America!" I was right in front of them. I just laughed and told them I speak three languages. If you speak two languages, you're bilingual. If you speak three or more languages, you're multilingual. If you speak one language, you're an "American."

Ohh... and about that bilingual. I went to apply for an internal posting for this job that I met every single qualification for... including bilingual. I didn't even get chosen for interview. So I called the manager and asked if there's anything missing in my resume that caused me not to get at least to the interview. He said you're not bilingual. I told him it does say in my resume I speak Filipino and Bisaya in addition to English. He said, oh, we need Spanish.

Okay, manager... bilingual means any two languages. Not English and Spanish only.

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Ohh... and about that bilingual. I went to apply for an internal posting for this job that I met every single qualification for... including bilingual. I didn't even get chosen for interview. So I called the manager and asked if there's anything missing in my resume that caused me not to get at least to the interview. He said you're not bilingual. I told him it does say in my resume I speak Filipino and Bisaya in addition to English. He said, oh, we need Spanish.

Okay, manager... bilingual means any two languages. Not English and Spanish only.

yeah here we put "must speak English and French"

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Funny story: A guy I know traveled to Germany, and was chewed out by a shopkeeper for trying to speak German. Apparently, this shopkeeper thought if this guy wasn't going to have the common decency to be born in Germany, he should just stick to his own dang language instead of trying to pretend to be something he's not.

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It's been generations already, this topic isn't something new, but I'm wondering how everyone feels about Spanish quickly becoming or already is the unofficial second language here in America. How do you, personally, feel about that?

I am more or less resigned to it. I happen to like Spanish pretty well, but I love English and hate to see it displaced. But you can't fight the tide.

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Funny story: A guy I know traveled to Germany, and was chewed out by a shopkeeper for trying to speak German. Apparently, this shopkeeper thought if this guy wasn't going to have the common decency to be born in Germany, he should just stick to his own dang language instead of trying to pretend to be something he's not.

And a true story: My parents tried to get on a train in Paris. The ticket booth guy was reading a newspaper. My parents tried to ask how to get from there to Lourdes by train in English. The guy looks at them, shakes his head, and continues to read the newspaper. It wasn't until some dude helped them out by translating into French that he finally put his newspaper down and gave directions... in French.

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Rewind 5 years ago and I had a lot of disgust over Spanish rapidly becoming a primary language. I realise now that this mind set was heavily influenced by my parents, who I don't begrudge for their feelings on it, but I will say that I think they invest way too much energy in being upset over it. The world changes and sometimes the best thing to do (when it's not a moral issue) is to go with the flow and progress with the changes.

DH speaks Spanish. He sounds fluent enough to me but he maintains that he only understands and speaks enough to get around comfortably. He never took any classes, he learned all of it from doing construction and then running his own contracting business for 20 some years, a field of work you can't really get around speaking Spanish to some acceptable degree. We both realise that understanding and speaking Spanish has become a vital part of communication here in the US, and we both really want our daughter to be on board with that, and not left behind in the dust - fair or not.

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My only issue would be if you are hiring someone to deal with people on a customer service job that requires moderate to complex communication you need to make sure they speak the language of the intended audience well enough to meet that complexity. That is an employer issue though, not an employee issue.

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One thing I personally love about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that the missionaries we send out into the world to proclaim the messages of the restoration are all expected to learn the language of the people that they teach - that they ought to appreciate the language and culture of the people wherever they are sent.

Part of appreciating the language and culture is an attitude of respect and honor. Many cultures, or at least vast numbers of individuals in every culture I have personally experienced are offended when those capable of speaking their language deliberately and as often as possible (in public) avoid the predominate accepted language. In fact this symbolism can be quite offensive in many cultures and the more resistance there is to using the predominate accepted language the more bitterness and scorn is generated.

Statements that in any way imply that a particular language and culture is going to come in and change (discard) the traditional language and culture is as offensive, arrogant and disrespectful as one can possibly be. And any excuse only takes the offense and arrogance to a higher level.

The Traveler

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Statements that in any way imply that a particular language and culture is going to come in and change (discard) the traditional language and culture is as offensive, arrogant and disrespectful as one can possibly be. And any excuse only takes the offense and arrogance to a higher level.

The Traveler

And yet, it's been happening almost since the world began. Even English isn't a "pure" language. When the Vikings invaded England the English changed and took on several of their words (and culture). When the Christians from mainland Europe came spreading the Gospel, English adopted words (and culture) from Latin and Greek. Language and culture have never been static. They're always changing and adapting. We just happen to be living through a period of history where now Spanish is starting to come in and make it's influence felt on our current language and culture. I don't find it arrogant or offensive. I find it as being the nature of humanity.

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In the old days, immigrants wanted to learn English, they wanted to fit in with society. It was a matter of pride to them when they could speak English. I miss the old days sometimes.

With the lemonade springs, where the bluebird sings, by the soda water fountain?

;):D

I'm thinking of every great immigrant influx I can... And am not coming up with the one you're thinking of? In general, people pack up into language hubs / neighborhoods... Continue to speak their native language, are treated badly, and it's only their children who become fluent in Emglish and MAY leave the old neighborhood. Whether that's 5 Points, Little Italy, ChinaTown, etc.

Q

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My only complaint is the unofficial officialism of Spanish. Officially make it the second language, or stop treating it like it is.

I think Spanish is a lovely language in and of itself.

To be fair though, English is only "unofficially official" in much of the US as well. It's not recognized as the Official Language in any Federal law that I'm aware of, and only a few states have made it their official language.

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