Dating before divorced

[quilter]

I never said anything about excommunication. Are people excommunicated because they are dating while they are still married and working out all the details on divorce?

[Seanette]

Classylady mentioned that her husband was trying to get his sealing to a now-excommunicated ex-wife cancelled, which is what I was responding to on that topic.

[Roseslipper]

no dating until divorce is final!!

[classylady]

Doesn't excommunication cancel the marriage sealing and other Temple blessings anyway?

I'm not sure if "cancel" in regards to the marriage sealing is the best term to use after a spouse has been excommunicated. After an excommunication the sealing is currently not in effect until after repentance and re-baptism. Then there is a special blessing given where the temple blessings/sealing will be restored. The individual will not have to be re-sealed or re-endowed, etc. Also, the repentance and coming back into the church could happen in either this life or the next.

With the excommunication of one of the spouses and divorce, and if the spouse that is not excommunicated wants to remarry, if it's the woman, she would still need to request a sealing cancellation from her ex in order to be sealed to the new husband in the temple. A man would still need to request a sealing clearance, or in some circumstances he may request a sealing cancellation. Also, keep in mind, requesting a cancellation does not necessarily mean it is granted.

Edited November 24, 2013 by classylady

[quilter]

How about if your husband is dating and is having his "friend" spend the night at his place? Well more like the weekend? Either she is at his place or he is at her place. And they go to church together on the weekends too.

What constitutes adultery?

[skippy740]

My ex-mother-in-law has a "friend" like this too. However, I can 99.9% guarantee that it is non-sexual. (Hey, there's always a little room to doubt.)

Adultery has been defined as sexual-relations outside of the marriage covenant while married to another. Fornication is simply sex outside of marriage.

However, his actions are no longer your concern. He has made his decision. He is dating when we have all agreed that he shouldn't be while still married.

We have already answered the original question - is it okay to date while still married, pending divorce.

What you're asking us now... is probably along the lines of "what can I do about it?" The answer is this: nothing. Let it go. I know it's easier said than done.

The only possible thing I can think of is to take notes on it and bring it up with your attorney (should you hire one) to represent you in the divorce proceedings.

Edited December 11, 2013 by skippy740

[classylady]

How about if your husband is dating and is having his "friend" spend the night at his place? Well more like the weekend? Either she is at his place or he is at her place. And they go to church together on the weekends too.

What constitutes adultery?

Church is where they should be. If they are sinning (which we all do), church is the best place for them. If they are having a sexual relationship you need to allow them to repent and move on with their lives.

Quilter, you need to let your husband go and hopefully do it with grace and compassion. Is he really the type of man you want to be tied to? You deserve a man who will love and respect you. My advice: don't fight the divorce, let him go, get on with your own life, don't obsess about him and his new "love".

[quilter]

I wish it was all that easy to just let it all go. When you're getting divorced no one really know what to do with you. It seems like "they" are all happy for my husband who is moving on and found a "new love" and when he just gets married everyone will be comfortable again. He's repented and everything is now great.

For the person who is left with the 5 children...well that's just uncomfortable for everyone. I just need to get over it and move on. Move on to what? Get on with my life to what? What if it was me that went off and left and he had to figure out what to do with 5 children, find a way to support them, and live happily ever after? There's alot to obsess about when you're cooking and cleaning and doing homework, and nurturing children and explaining to them that their Dad loves them and that we're going to be ok and every one in the world just hopes I can "get over all of this and move on". What I'm really learning is that the church and the people in it have all these neat little rules until they don't. And then I'm on my own.

So while I'm on my own figuring this all out, he's dating, and going to church with her and staying at each others places, and living happily ever after. Frankly I'm exhausted, and I'm tired of always putting on a happy face.

[Quin]

1) It's not fair.

Period.

There is no way, whatsoever, that things are fair.

And they won't be.

Possibly ever.

But it does get better.

(And worse. And better, again.)

Believe me... I am so sick and freaking tired of the "high road" and it's nosebleeds, that I can't even express it. LOL. Although I've made various attempts. At one point my bestie & I came up with 52 different things to call TheEx (a strong medical & legal background, for various putrid and vile descriptions, helped enormously). I also have a private blog that was essentially me just venting,.., and one post is 'I hate him ' about 500 times.

2) PART of what is unfair is the ongoing theft of joy.

Which is the "get over it" part.

Not because of something lacking in you.

But because every minute of joy that he is STEALING from you, for every minute of pain you're in.

Now... I had it easy in this department.

Because my ex is a toad.

He's STILL stalking me, even years later (he broke in last week, as a matter of fact), and the jerk keeps cloning my phones.

So it's easy for me, because I KNOW he gets off on my suffering.

Every bit of pain he can see me in just fuels him causing me more pain.

Usually through our kids.

(As I mentioned, he's a warty muck dweller.)

That was the HARDEST to learn to fake, it took me two years not to show how his hurting the kids hurts me.

And Im talking some pretty serious abuse issues.

It's a lot harder for my friends who divorced for other reasons,

As their gut response is that their ex "should" _________

(Care for them, treat them like humans, care if they're in pain, etc,)

When the truth is... That they don't.

That in divorce, not only is the "obligation" to care removed...

But some are actively TRYING to hurt their ex in every way possible

And some are just narcissistically oblivious.

3) Every "amicable" divorce is going to drive you insane, for awhile.

Not so much being unhappy that others DO still care for their ex even after the obligation to is gone...

But because "amicable" divorces have become the standard of behavior OTHERS insist on.

Roll. Eyes.

Even when the divorce is NOT amicable.

((Now, you may luck out in a year or two a d actually have an amicable divorce, a lot of adultery/infidelity dissolutions become amicable in time. If that does happen, do please try to remember how awful it feels when people are holding you to a standard that is NOT your specific case. As those of us with abusive marriages/ divorces never get the general acceptance. Instead we're told all the time how we "should" be blah blah blah. Like "coparenting" -I did not support his "parenting" choice to strangle our son as punishment when we were married, getting divorced does not change my stance on that particular mode of discipline. or "loving the kids more than we hate the ex and blah blah blah". Have you lost your ever lovin mind??? Dont you DARE question how much i love my children, just because i will not attend a birthday party with their abuser. Question that I haven't killed the bloke, sure. But not that i will not break bread with him and smile & sing and support his continued and ongoing abuses with my presence. In NO other field of criminal law, is a victim supposed to hang out socially with their attacker. Except in divorce land.))

4) It's human nature to want to fix things. And, in divorce, they can't.

At least, in illness/disaster/death/etc... There's usually something obvious to DO.

But not in divorce.

Divorce is a minefield of 1000x different variables of pain, stages of grieving, and situations.

Stick 10 divorced people in a room together, and you won't even get any homogeneity.

We're all in different places, and we all started out in different places.*

* Im fairly open about my horrific marriage and divorce online... But in real life, maybe 3 people know any of the details in my ward... And that's because 2 women & 1 man were ALSO in abusive marriages with ongoing stalking issues. Our ward has about 200 some odd active families in it. 3 people. Out of a few hundred. I worried, at first, about posting the details of my marriage online, but -come to find- its pretty common. Not as common as infidelity, but common. Here's the thing, though, in real life,.. People don't share. "We grew apart" is code for "I don't want to talk about it". People who haven't been there think "grew apart" is the flat truth. And, just like amicable divorces, they take that as the standard. So either people know how much pain you're in, and don't want to ruin your day by dragging you down into it, or they don't get it.

5) It's human nature to know that you slipped because you're clumsy, but I slipped because I stepped on ice. Aka defense mechanisms. Aka blame the victim. Aka because HE'S all happy and moved on, that if your unhappy, it's obviously your fault.

Crazy logic, right? But it protects people / let's the, think that in the same situation THEY will be fine. Or that the bad thing will never happen to them. (Whether its infidelity, abuse, child's death, homelessness, mental illness... Pick ANYTHING that people are afraid of... And you'll find people avoiding those that have what they don't want. Like its contagious. It's not contagious. It's scary. This is part of the "not fair" & untrue, bit, that's no fun.

______

Since Im a beaming ray of sunshine here... I just DO want to underscore that it does get better.

Time does NOT heal all wounds, but we get stronger.

Promise.

Q

[skippy740]

I wish it was all that easy to just let it all go. When you're getting divorced no one really know what to do with you. It seems like "they" are all happy for my husband who is moving on and found a "new love" and when he just gets married everyone will be comfortable again. He's repented and everything is now great.

For the person who is left with the 5 children...well that's just uncomfortable for everyone. I just need to get over it and move on. Move on to what? Get on with my life to what? What if it was me that went off and left and he had to figure out what to do with 5 children, find a way to support them, and live happily ever after? There's alot to obsess about when you're cooking and cleaning and doing homework, and nurturing children and explaining to them that their Dad loves them and that we're going to be ok and every one in the world just hopes I can "get over all of this and move on". What I'm really learning is that the church and the people in it have all these neat little rules until they don't. And then I'm on my own.

So while I'm on my own figuring this all out, he's dating, and going to church with her and staying at each others places, and living happily ever after. Frankly I'm exhausted, and I'm tired of always putting on a happy face.

You're angry and upset. That's normal.

No one in this thread told you to "put on a happy face". This is not a happy time.

All we're saying, is that your ex's actions are no longer your concern.

If you want to make him miserable, you can take him to court for the divorce proceedings and fight for 50% of everything you have together. You can get a child support order against him. You can even obtain a restraining order. You can make his life (and yours) a pure, miserable, living hell. (He may not look so attractive to his new honey with such financial burdens.)

At least we're getting to your real feelings now, instead of trying to figure out "what's what" - like "is it okay to date while married?" or "what's adultery?". Those questions weren't getting you anywhere.