Advice for YSAs

[kevman91]

Hello everyone. This is my first post on the forums but i've visited and read threads several times and have found it to be a great community. I came looking for advice on a situation that i'm sure many of you have faced before. A girl and I have been dating about 4 months now but is leaving after christmas to attend BYU. We have started discussing marriage and we both feel comfortable about it. We are both returned missionaries abd temple worthy. My only problem/concern is how to manage the finances. She wants me to move to Utah and I would like to. I am planning on doing my degree all online and have been paying for it by working fulltime and living with my parents who dont charge me rent. We both have 0 student loan debt (she got a 2 year all tuition payed scholorship) and our starting our junior year but she has a car payment. I have a good job making 13$ an hour. By moving and getting married it will drain most of my savings, ill have to make less money since im sure I wont make 13$ in Utah and ill need to start paying room/board. Im just scared about providing I guess. She will only be working part time and now be doing all loans for her degree. What have people done in the past in these situations? Do we suck it up both do our degrees on loans and start our lives in tons of debt? What if we have a kid and she doesnt finish her degree? Now we are down a part time income have debt and an extra expense. Should she not get her degree and work fulltime also so we can stay debt free? Its a hard decision because we both want her to have a degree and to start a family right away but obviously some sacrifices need to be made. I know ultimatly through prayer and fasting we will have to make a decision but i'm just hoping their are some couples who had a similar situation who can shed some light on the situation. I appreciate all and any advice. Thanks!

[MarginOfError]

You need to stop thinking in terms of avoiding all debt. You need to start thinking in terms of accruing only the debt you need to, and an amount that you can easily pay off when you within 5 - 10 years of entering your career. That means you need to have an idea of what the primary earner's income will be after starting the career. If you're going to be earning $40,000 per year, you don't want to accrue much debt. If you'll be earning $200,000 per year, you can afford a little more debt.

It's great if you can get through degree programs without debt, but from what you describe, it doesn't seem like a valid option for you. Instead of focusing on how to achieve the impossible, find the best balance of the possible and proceed.

[SanctitasDeo]

Also, BYU is cheap enough that you don't need to go into much debt in order to pay for it. In fact, if you live cheaply and go through school more slowly than some people/work full-time during the summer, etc. a BYU student can graduate without any debt at all. It depends on the situation, obviously, and scholarships help a lot.

[Drpepper]

I would call borrowing money for an expensive fast car, debt. Borrowing money for an education, an investment.

[mrmarklin]

A couple of comments to avoid problems:

You've only known her 4 months and you're talking marraige? Too soon IMHO.

You still live at home and can't really afford to move. Get your education settled. You're correct in that you are not in any position to support a wife.

You don't own a home or have any place to live as a married couple. Not a good start.

Birth control has been invented. Assuming you ignore all my good advice about not being ready and laying a proper foundation for marraige, you don't need to have kids until you are done with your education.

My best advice is to wait on marraige until your situation stabilizes. It's tough enough as it is with a proper foundation, but you're heading in with three strikes already against you (housing, education, lack of funds). Not to mention the fact that you barely know each other.

Edited November 18, 2013 by mrmarklin

[SanctitasDeo]

I'd not known my wife longer than four months when we started talking about marriage. We didn't (and don't) own a home, but there is plenty of cheap housing in Provo. We have been blessed that way; we have never paid too much for rent. We are both about to finish our degrees in a month. And we have a kid. Right now I have some prospects for jobs, and we have good future plans. And no debt. It is possible to do it.

That being said, I am not you. My situation was different (and we were both already in Provo, for instance). You can't export one person's experience and universalize it.

I would echo mrmarklin's advice about kids. You do not have to start having kids right away. We waited a while. It is a good idea to get to know each other better before you start changing things with pregnancy (which can change things a lot) and kids (ditto).

In addition, consider your health insurance situation carefully. You may not be able to afford a kid (or insurance for a kid). It worked out for us, but we reviewed our options carefully first.

It isn't important that you have nice things. It is okay to be poor. In fact, if you expect it, it makes things easier. We have a standard of living far above what I expected. But you may have to sacrifice to make something like this work. And figure out whether your philosphies about finances and spending are similar (and not dangerous). Money problems are one of the primary causes of divorce, I am told.

[Quin]

2) financial Planner

I had this in #1 note... But just wanted to underscore it again. You two are the the BEGINNING of a journey. Plan now. I hear a lot of spinning out over "what ifs". Planning is good. Future tripping (or plunging blindly), not so good.

3) start looking for work AND look at housing options BEFORE moving. Include cost of living.

You might make $20 an hour but be broke in one area, and $10 an hour and be living well in another area.

But do look. Actively.

4) Consider "starting fresh". Moving costs are minimal when you're bringing a suitcase, instead of a truck. Price keeping most of your stuff in storage, and living in a furnished apartment, or renting a room in a home.

5) Just because she's moving for Winter Qtr doesn't mean you have to move at the same time. It's reasonable to plan to stay with your folks for a few more months (ESP if she's coming back over the summer). Long distance relationships are a chore ... But they're doable. Just make sure you're not spending more visiting than you would be by moving!

Q

Edited November 24, 2013 by Quin
Living v loving autocorrect blunder.

[Quin]

Whoops... I may have accidentally deleted #1.

It was novel length long, so probably for the best. In short... Starting with probably the least currently relavent first (or last, now?, whatever):

1) It drives me absolutely NUTS when people equate having kids with not going to school.

There is arguably no better entry level job on the planet better for parents than being (college) students.

- 10 hours a week of childcare needed (instead of 50+)

- Set your own hours (both in class schedules, as well as when you work/work. There are a zillion parents looking for "work from home" jobs. School. School. School.)

- Call in sick with impunity (just email your prof & get your assignments. Most classes only need attendance for midterms and finals, but even lab classes have wiggle room). Employers are NOT as lenient as professors. Even then, you're looking at 2-4 hours per week per class ... Instead of 40+. So it's a lot less likely that being sick for 3 days is going to be a problem.

- Better pay in many/most cases from financial aids (grants and loans*) than one can make in McJobs, and DEFINITELY better pay than "paying to work" if you live in an area with high childcare costs. Where I lived when I was starting out childcare was $1600 a month. I could only make $1200. Yeah. Math isn't my forte, but even I can see that I could NOT afford to work. But i not only got 15k-20k in financial aid... I got childcare subsidies that meant not dime one went to childcare costs.

- et cetera. BIG time There are sooooo many resources out their for family students. But those are my top 4 reasons.

Whenever I remember to think of it, I thank HF that I didn't start school until after my son was born. School is harder, but LFE is easier.

((Caveat to the above.... Sure. If I HADN'T been entry level, ip but waited until my late 30s/early 40s and was established as most of my contemporaries are... Different ball game. But I was 23. So many of my friends are waiting until school is done to have kids, and are having sooooooo many more financial problems because of it, that I feel incredibly lucky not to have gone with conventional wisdom in that arena.))

* Student debt is calculated ENTIRELY DIFFERENTLY than standard debt. I had a big piece written before that I deleted on accident, that boils down to #2: work with a financial planner to understand both this, and to set yourself up (single or married) in the best position possible, from day 1. Don't wait until you're done with school. Do it now. Or you stand to lose thousands, or even 10s of thousands or more. The world of finance is often counter-intuitive.

Q

[kevman91]

Thanks everyone for your replies. It's nice to see how other people have made it work.

1. My parents got engaged after 3 months and have been married for 24 years now so I don't think 4 months is a problem especially considering we still would be dating for much longer.

2. Because I live with my parents I have been able to save several thousand dollars also while still being debt free (13 an hour is a lot of money when your only expenses are tithing, phone, gas and insurance). I do have that. I have looked in Provo and housing is cheap.

She and I have talked some more and I think we will do the long distance thing for a while just to make sure before going all in. If after a little while we decide we want to pursue it we can since I will have saved more money by then. We decided that if we do decide to get married, she will go to school part time and work full time. With 2 full time paychecks we should be able to do it. I know people who are doing it on less and are students, although I don't know if they are living on debt. I know lots of people who are doing that also. I agree also that being married we would get a lot more pell grant money etc. Thanks everyone again for your advice. If anyone has stories of how they made it work as newlyweds still in college I'd love to hear them.

[Lakumi]

4 months? I wouldn't even let someone drink from my glass if I only knew them for that long.

Needless to say I too am in the planning stages of moving (back where I came from, abit I have far less then you do, and will be alone-but that's how I want it, tbh)...

I donno how long I'd have to know someone before I'd want to marry them, years probably, I don't want to marry someone and figure out that I can't live with the person, or that I hate them.

Divorce is expensive.

[Quin]

4 months? I wouldn't even let someone drink from my glass if I only knew them for that long.

Needless to say I too am in the planning stages of moving (back where I came from, abit I have far less then you do, and will be alone-but that's how I want it, tbh)...

I donno how long I'd have to know someone before I'd want to marry them, years probably, I don't want to marry someone and figure out that I can't live with the person, or that I hate them.

Divorce is expensive.

Everyone's different.

I've turned down proposals, after a blink of time, that a decade or two later, knowing these men... We could have had great marriages. (Knowing now, after a failed marriage, the difference between what I actually NEED from a marriage, and what I just want but can live with or without. My ex had many things, even most, that I wanted out of marriage... But nothing I needed). Unlike the proposals I turned down a few weeks/months into the relationship, my exHusband, I dated 4 years before marrying. Should have divorced him after a year. Instead stuck it out for more than 10 years.

Some people know each other for 2 minutes, and live strong and happy marriages for 50 years or longer.

Other people date for years and years and fall apart 2 minutes after marriage.

And everything in between.

It takes all kinds.

Q

[Lakumi]

Yeah well I've not had any luck with women, it's never gotten close to even thinking about marriage, it's never even gotten to the "should I be myself" part.

What do I need from a marriage? I donno, someone I can truly be myself around and that doesn't hate me and vice versa?

I always assumed I wasn't marriage material, and dating and the like is something I don't bother with anymore

[NightSG]

1. My parents got engaged after 3 months and have been married for 24 years now so I don't think 4 months is a problem especially considering we still would be dating for much longer.

My great uncle bought the ring the morning after the second date. He passed peacefully in her arms 58 years later.

My maternal grandparents were married less than 6 months after they met. He almost had to be sedated to let the doctors take her body away 54 years later.

How well it will work depends more on how much you both want it to work than how long you put off taking the big steps.