Attention, fans of domestic violence! Sanctioned professional male-v-female MMA bout!

[Vort]

I thought this was an unfunny joke, but it appears to be real. Nothing good can come of this.

Shooto Brazil Promoting 'First Male vs. Female Fight in MMA History' | Bleacher Report

From the viewpoint of MMA fan, this is a debacle. From the viewpoint of the woman, this is a disaster waiting to happen. We're not talking tennis here, pitting a top-of-the-heap woman in her prime against a fat, over-the-hill has-been man. We're talking people punching each other in the face. Upper body strength, man vs. woman. Man wins 99 times out of 100.

Even from the man's perspective, how is this a good deal? It is literally a no-win situation. If he beats her up (which he probably will), he's a woman-beater. I can't believe that's respected by anyone, even in Brazil. At 0-1 going into the fight, people will say he couldn't beat a man, so he went out and picked on a woman. Fair or not, that's what they will say. And should he lose, not only is his MMA "career" permanently dead, but he won't be able to show his face in public. He'll probably have to get plastic surgery and move to a different country to start all over again.

[Praetorian_Brow]

If the outcome is as obvious as you make it to be, why would she sign up for it? I don't disagree that the match is a bad idea, but your knee-jerk comparison to domestic abuse is a bit much, considering she knows what she is getting into and most likely, has a skill set that is not that of a domesticated chained to the kitchen housewife.

Having trained with women in the military, I will say that I have respect for their gender abilities, even if we handicap them with our male notions of what they can and cannot do.

[Vort]

130-pound trained male fighter vs. 130-pound trained female fighter in hand-to-hand combat -- and you are seriously suggesting that such a thing is a fair fight?

I did not compare the fight to domestic violence. I simply noted (tongue-in-cheek, for those too dim to catch the humor) that those who were "fans" of domestic violence would find plenty to like in this fight.

[Guest]

I'm with Vort on this one. This is a very bad idea all around. There's a reason there's no "mixed singles" in tennis. And that's tennis.

Why would a woman go for a fight like this? Because, in the sport of MMA, women fighters are not so common that the spots open for them to make a name is very limited. This fight - no matter the outcome - have the potential of getting that girl's name on the books.

You know why I like Meisha Tate? Because, she's not a woman trying to be a man... even as she's busy torquing some dude's arm on the practice ring.

[Praetorian_Brow]

The irony of the dim witted statement is not lost on me.

[Quin]

Yay!!!

I think this is fantastic.

Although, kinda lame in that he's already injured...so if he loses, he can save face that way.

I've sparred against tons of guys.

Win some.

Lose some.

Mutually assured destruction (aka tie) some.

The thing about martial arts (ESP mixed martial arts) is that the paradigm of male/female is completely different.

I actually prefer street fighting (eyeballs. and knees, and groins, oh my)... But it's very possible for men & women to be evenly matched (or outmatched) in martial arts.

Just as a case in point... My oldest is a black belt. He regularly gets his bum handed to him by ALison, who is the same ranked belt, and 6 inches shorter/50lbs lighter. Gotta look out for the speedy wiry little guys! (Aka most girls).

((Yes. I knew how to fight before my exHusband almost killed me.))

Q

[Vort]

Black belt in what, Quin?

[Guest]

I don't find this fantastic. In the same manner that I don't find that 8-year-old girl routing her male peewee football teammates fantastic. I believe that we need males to preserve their instinctive protective instincts towards females. It's a survival of the species thing.

[Praetorian_Brow]

If it was a simple survival of the species thing, women shouldn't have gotten the vote. Haha, I amuse myself too much.

I think some ideas of gender roles are being threatened here and I am sure in the not too distant future, the Proclamation for the Family will be brought as evidence against the shocking decisions of the two adult fighters.

[kapikui]

I saw a "boxing" match male vs female. The female was the top female boxer in the world. The male was a literally a horse jockey who had no boxing experience. She had at least 50 pounds on him and almost 2 feet. That she cleaned his clock was used as "proof" that women can compete with men no matter what.

[Bini]

Not sure how I feel about it.

I remember posting a thread earlier this year about women now being eligible to fulfil the role of ranger in the military IF they successfully complete a series of trainings and evaluations. (I had thought that women already fought in the front lines of battle and war but I was mistaken.) Anyway, there was an uproar about it but what it boiled down to was that either a woman is able to physically and mentally hold her own against her male peers on the battlefield, or she isn't.

While I may not necessarily "like" it, I believe that if a woman has the skill and understands all the potential risks involved, she is a worthy candidate for just about anything she wishes to pursue.

[Praetorian_Brow]

As far as I was aware, only the U.S. had that stipulation to bar women from combat, but it was recently lifted. Believe me, women as a gender, can do war just fine. I trained with a petite woman and she was humping just as much gear as we were and with less complaining, haha.

[Vort]

Anyway, there was an uproar about it but what it boiled down to was that either a woman is able to physically and mentally hold her own against her male peers on the battlefield, or she isn't.

Not to hijack my own thread, but I believe the kerfluffle wasn't about whether or not a woman could "hold her own against her male peers on the battlefield". I'm fairly confident that the major problem that most foresaw was that standards would be lowered to allow women to pass the requirements, and that the result would be that a woman who could not "hold her own...on a battlefield" would endanger not only herself but her squad and potentially the entire effort by not being able to e.g. carry her wounded comrade to safety. Military friends tell me that, in some situations, they believe this is exactly what has happened. I am not military and have no direct knowledge one way or the other, so I depend on the insights of others in such matters.

[Bini]

Not to hijack my own thread, but I believe the kerfluffle wasn't about whether or not a woman could "hold her own against her male peers on the battlefield". I'm fairly confident that the major problem that most foresaw was that standards would be lowered to allow women to pass the requirements, and that the result would be that a woman who could not "hold her own...on a battlefield" would endanger not only herself but her squad and potentially the entire effort by not being able to e.g. carry her wounded comrade to safety. Military friends tell me that, in some situations, they believe this is exactly what has happened. I am not military and have no direct knowledge one way or the other, so I depend on the insights of others in such matters.

I was speaking more or less in a nut shell. "Holding her own" basically encompassing all that is required of her.

[Quin]

Aikido

[Vort]

Aikido

Hmmm. How do I put this delicately?

I will just give you my opinion. Accept it for whatever it's worth to you.

Aikido is not a fighting art, regardless of what Steven Segal would have you believe. Your blackbelt-in-aikido daughter (or son) would not last 30 seconds fighting against a same-sized opponent with six good months of training in boxing. That is not to say they aren't good at aikido, just that aikido does not prepare you to fight anyone who actually knows how to fight.

My children took aikido for several years, back when we had the money to afford it. They had a great time and progressed well through the belts; their aikido school was run by a very good, conscientious man (who refused to give black belts to anyone under 16 years of age, for which I respected him). Their aikido training was a complement to their gymnastics. But never at any time did I deceive myself that they were learning a useful self-defense skill. They were not.

When my oldest began wrestling, I started taking them to judo, which is a form of Japanese wrestling and which they enjoyed (at first). Their aikido training helped them out for the first month or so. But none of them lasted more than a year in judo, because the training was just not a lot of fun. Even my son who wrestled, which involves some pretty intense training, complained about the judo. The fact is, judo hurts. It's uncomfortable to get choked out or to get armbarred. You learn to tap early and often. It hurts to get thrown over and over and over and over and over and over. There is a reason so many 50-year-old judoka blackbelts hobble around like they're 80.

I have come to believe that hand-to-hand self-defense classes are not nearly as useful as I believed them to be. Frankly, that time is probably better used practicing the piano or studying scriptures. At the same time, I think if you like ballet or fencing or aikido, then by all means practice ballet or fencing or aikido. But if you want to learn to defend yourself in hand-to-hand combat, you need to learn hand-to-hand combat. Aikido is not hand-to-hand combat. It's a form of cooperative dance.

No offense intended. Honestly.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Vort, what are you trained in? I would hazard a guess, that Akaido training and a woman, would beat your untrained man power any day.

I will point out that regardless of your belief in the effectiveness of her training, it gave her the self confidence that was crushed by abuse and that should not be dismissed, so easily by such a spiritually informed person as yourself. I conclude that you seem very keen on promoting your definition of gender roles, even if its 18th century, Puritan.

[Vort]

Vort, what are you trained in? I would hazard a guess, that Akaido training and a woman, would beat your untrained man power any day.

I will point out that regardless of your belief in the effectiveness of her training, it gave her the self confidence that was crushed by abuse and that should not be dismissed, so easily by such a spiritually informed person as yourself. I conclude that you seem very keen on promoting your definition of gender roles, even if its 18th century, Puritan.

Peebs, you're reading a lot into what I wrote that isn't there, based on your distorted prejudices against me. My aikido rant had nothing to do with males vs. females. It had to do with effective martial arts vs. forms of dance.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Maybe a little, but your post came across as extremely condescending and dismissive towards Quin.

Krav Maga is my choice.

[NeuroTypical]

My kids and I did some Krav here, taught by our local cops.

I don't know anything about Akido, but I basically have Vort's opinion about Tae Kwon Do. It can be hugely character building, teach civility and humility, keep you in great shape, but it's about as useful in a fight as celtic dancing.

[NeuroTypical]

I'm fairly confident that the major problem that most foresaw was that standards would be lowered to allow women to pass the requirements, and that the result would be that a woman who could not "hold her own...on a battlefield" would endanger not only herself but her squad and potentially the entire effort by not being able to e.g. carry her wounded comrade to safety.

The major problem as I understand it, is if this nation ever ends up drafting women and forcing them to fight to protect men, all the good men of courage and principle will decide their social contract with the US government has ended, and they'll either disappear into the hills or maybe seek to depose the government and replace it with something worthy of their allegiance.

Kind of a bigger problem than just not having as capable a military as one might otherwise have.

[Guest]

Vort, what are you trained in? I would hazard a guess, that Akaido training and a woman, would beat your untrained man power any day.

In combat? Not really. To quote an Aikido sensei: "To Defeat the Enemy without Fighting is the Highiest and Greatest Skill".

I will point out that regardless of your belief in the effectiveness of her training, it gave her the self confidence that was crushed by abuse and that should not be dismissed, so easily by such a spiritually informed person as yourself. I conclude that you seem very keen on promoting your definition of gender roles, even if its 18th century, Puritan.

I don't think that is what Vort was getting at. There is no question that Aikido provides a lot of benefits to everyday life - self-confidence being only one of very many, balance is another very important one... there's something to be said about knowing how to fall without hurting yourself. But Vort was talking about combat.

[Jenamarie]

The major problem as I understand it, is if this nation ever ends up drafting women and forcing them to fight to protect men, all the good men of courage and principle will decide their social contract with the US government has ended, and they'll either disappear into the hills or maybe seek to depose the government and replace it with something worthy of their allegiance.

Kind of a bigger problem than just not having as capable a military as one might otherwise have.

I wouldn't call those type of men "men of courage and principle."

[Praetorian_Brow]

What does Vort know about combat, besides watching MMA? I don't even know what combat is, as I haven't been in combat, but I have trained for it. The likelihood of a trained person defeating an untrained person is extremely high regardless of your estimation of the value of their training.

What you quoted, is not a pacifist statement, or proof that Anikido is on the same level as Yoga. The meaning of the quote is referring to the notion that those who are trained should be less willing to fight and seek other means to diffuse a situation. It is also urging other means and violence as a last resort.

[Guest]

Krav Maga is my choice.

We actually visited the Krav Maga school (one opened 5 miles from my house) for my kids. The style looked awesome. My boys were in Escrima and Kali (what I grew up on) but I did not like the guro so we pulled them out. We looked at KM, Chintokan, and GB-BJJ and the boys chose GB-BJJ because the boys didn't quite feel comfortable with the aggression in the KM school. Not sure if that was just the students there or if that's what they were taught. They didn't like Chintokan either - they thought it was wierd. They love, love, love BJJ which makes my husband happy because he was a wrestler in high school so he can roll with the boys. Last February, my husband enrolled in the BJJ school because my 11-year-old son can tap him out - there are no submissions in wrestling so he doesn't really know how to defend it.

Edited December 19, 2013 by anatess