Tithing question

[pooter1]

I hardly come here anymore.Im always scared of being put down, people not understanding what Im trying to ask and then I leave here feeling horrible. Here is my question. Does the tithing I pay go to just building churches and Temples? I recently found out about a mall that the church purchased and its was 3 billion dollars. I have heard that tithing money was not spent but some where at some time someones tithing was spent? Right? Where did they get the money if it wasn't from tithing?It didn't just appear. My second question is: Is the reason BYU is so cheap is because tithing money is spent on it? This makes me feel horrible if this is true because I couldn't afford to send my kids to college but I helped someone else kid go.Please someone tell me none of this is true. Im on the very edge of becoming a non believer.Things are coming up in my head that are not making sense to me anymore.

[pam]

Tithing was not used at all to help build the mall. The church owns several for profit businesses that tithing does not go towards.

And yes tithing money is used to help fund BYU. From the BYU website:

A significant portion of the cost of operating the university is paid from the tithes of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Therefore, students and families of students who are tithe-paying members of the Church have already made a contribution to the operation of the university. Because others will not have made this contribution, they are charged a higher tuition, a practice similar in principle to that of state universities charging higher tuition to nonresidents.

So basically the tithing you are paying will be going to also help fund the education of your children should they choose to go there. Non members pay quite a bit more to attend there.

Tithing money is used for the following:

Constructing temples, chapels, and other buildings.

Providing operating funds for the Church.

Funding the missionary program (This does not include individual missionary expenses.)

Preparing materials used in Church classes and organizations.

Temple work, family history, and many other important Church functions.

Education.

You'll notice the last item is education. That's where BYU and other church owned schools come into play.

Edited December 27, 2013 by pam

[pooter1]

Who paid for the for profit businesses? You have to get straight A's to get into BYU not every kid can benefit from it. Thanks for giving me some direction in this Pam.

[Leah]

Who paid for the for profit businesses? You have to get straight A's to get into BYU not every kid can benefit from it. Thanks for giving me some direction in this Pam.

Where did you get that information that you have to get straignt A's to get into BYU? Their website indicates otherwise.

Even so, what does GPA to get into BYU have to do with tithing?

[pam]

Where did you get that information that you have to get straignt A's to get into BYU? Their website indicates otherwise.

Even so, what does GPA to get into BYU have to do with tithing?

I think she is getting at that is it more difficult to get into BYU Provo. They do have a very strict admissions criteria. Grades in high school play a key role in admission there.

[Leah]

I think she is getting at that is it more difficult to get into BYU Provo. They do have a very strict admissions criteria. Grades in high school play a key role in admission there.

Grades in high school play a key role in admission anywhere. (Unless you are an athlete at certain universities, unfortunately). I have worked at universities, I am familiar with admission processes.

Again, I am not seeing where it states that all students must get straight A's to be admitted to BYU. I would like to know where that information is coming from. And what the relevance is to tithing. I don't get the connection that is trying to be made.

[pooter1]

We have 3 boys in our ward that made it into BYU and it was all their mothers that told me this. It just bugs me that my tithing money is being used to help others get an education when my children are struggling to get any kind of work they can. Im paying for someone's kid but not mine. I know that paying tithing is a commandment but its bothering me where it goes. Does anyone know who pays for the for profit businesses? Also, if this mall was 3 billion dollars why didn't it go to feeding the poor.We could have fed a whole country!! I just don't feel right inside.Something is not right.

Edited December 27, 2013 by angel333

[pam]

Perhaps it would have been better if she had said "You practically have to get straight A's to get into BYU." As for the tithing comment, I get where she is coming from. If her kids can't get into BYU, she isn't reaping the benefits of education at BYU for the tithing that she has paid.

[pooter1]

I also need to add that my son did not get into BYU.His grades were B's and C's. He did get into BYU Idaho but that is not where he wanted to go. If Im going to pay for something I want to be able to use it. I use the Church and the Temple so I feel like I should be able to use anything I spend my money on. Am I being selfish?

[pam]

I also need to add that my son did not get into BYU.His grades were B's and C's. He did get into BYU Idaho but that is not where he wanted to go. If Im going to pay for something I want to be able to use it. I use the Church and the Temple so I feel like I should be able to use anything I spend my money on. Am I being selfish?

If he went to BYU-I it would be going towards paying for his education. Non members pay substantially higher tuition there as well.

[pam]

We have 3 boys in our ward that made it into BYU and it was all their mothers that told me this. It just bugs me that my tithing money is being used to help others get an education when my children are struggling to get any kind of work they can. Im paying for someone's kid but not mine. I know that paying tithing is a commandment but its bothering me where it goes. Does anyone know who pays for the for profit businesses? Also, if this mall was 3 billion dollars why didn't it go to feeding the poor.We could have fed a whole country!! I just don't feel right inside.Something is not right.

Is the church responsible for feeding an entire country? No. But one thing the church does want people to learn is to be self reliant. Providing hundreds and hundreds of jobs that allows people to work to do just that is more in line with this teaching. Just like the old saying: "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime."

[Dreams_Of_Deutschland]

While this has turned into a thread about education subsidies, I would like to question why there is not the transparency with church funds that should be there? Joseph Smith (and certainly the Lord) never intended it to be a secret (sacred). And if it truly is "sacred". why was it not so sacred prior to the 1950's when reporting ceased?

[Guest]

While this has turned into a thread about education subsidies, I would like to question why there is not the transparency with church funds that should be there? Joseph Smith (and certainly the Lord) never intended it to be a secret (sacred). And if it truly is "sacred". why was it not so sacred prior to the 1950's when reporting ceased?

To avoid exactly the kind of conversation we are having here on this thread.

Tithing is not about where the money is spent. Tithing is a covenant between you and the Lord to set aside a tenth of your increase for His purposes. If you do not have a testimony of the authority of the President of the Lds Church to direct the Church including the Lord's tithes in the proper channels, then you should not pay tithes or even be a member of the Church. But, if you do, then you should fulfill your covenants and let the Lord's servants do their jobs.

So that, if you have a testimony of the authority of President Monson, then it will not matter to us one wit if President Monson says he is taking all the tithing money, put it in a pyre and burn it all as an offering to the Lord as the Lord decrees. If he was directed by God, then all is good. If he was mistaken and he actually was delusional when he thought that is what God instructed, then it does not change the fact that we fulfilled our covenants to pay tithes and we are still going to be right with God in the last days even if Pres. Monson is going to have to account for his actions to God.

Make sense?

Edited December 27, 2013 by anatess

[skippy740]

Why We Do Some of the Things We Do - Ensign Nov. 1999 - ensign

[Guest]

I also need to add that my son did not get into BYU.His grades were B's and C's. He did get into BYU Idaho but that is not where he wanted to go. If Im going to pay for something I want to be able to use it. I use the Church and the Temple so I feel like I should be able to use anything I spend my money on. Am I being selfish?

Yes and no. Your reaction is a natural reaction but you will have to find a way to gain a testimony of the Church and its leaders. Because, in the end, this is not about where the money goes. We don't pay tithing so we can benefit from the tithing money. We pay tithing as an offering to God. This is about a testimony of the authority of the Prophets and Apostles - questioning their wisdom in the way they run Church funds. And questioning is okay - it's how we build testimonies.

I was just in the Philippines where this magnificent multi-million-dollar temple was built in the middle of Cebu City a few miles from abject squalor. Could you imagine the strength of the testimonies of all of the LDS members of Cebu to be able to continue to pay tithes, look at that magnificent temple and go home to their life of poverty? I was so humbled by them and I was very blessed to have spent Testimony Meetings with these people and experience first hand the joy they felt in their lives for having the opportunity to exercise their faith and strenghten their testimonies. I wish I could capture that spirit in a photograph and share it with people!

Edited December 27, 2013 by anatess

[pam]

While this has turned into a thread about education subsidies, I would like to question why there is not the transparency with church funds that should be there? Joseph Smith (and certainly the Lord) never intended it to be a secret (sacred). And if it truly is "sacred". why was it not so sacred prior to the 1950's when reporting ceased?

This thread did not turn into a thread about education subsidies. The responses until yours had everything to do with the OP's questions.

The OP asked if the mall was paid for by tithing and then asked if BYU was also paid for by tithing. Those questions were answered.

Edited December 27, 2013 by pam

[Dravin]

I also need to add that my son did not get into BYU.His grades were B's and C's. He did get into BYU Idaho but that is not where he wanted to go. If Im going to pay for something I want to be able to use it. I use the Church and the Temple so I feel like I should be able to use anything I spend my money on. Am I being selfish?

Tithing is not a subscription paid for access to Church faculties and services. You are not spending your money on anything by paying tithing, you are not a customer of the Lord or his Church. The Lord, through his Church, is spending his money on things. Money paid in tithing no longer belongs to us, this fundamental point seems to be something you are having a hard time internalizing.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Dravin

[Quin]

On the university avenue... Think of State Schools.

State Schools are funded by tax dollars.

We all pay for them.

But

Not all of us will qualify to attend.

Not all of us will qualify for Federal Student Aid via the FAFSA.

Not all of us will be able to afford the schools even with aid, or have the CV to,be competitive if we can afford it.

In fact... 2 of the top nursing schools are state schools. Even a 4 point GPA and being homeless (or a billionaire) isn't a guaranteed admit they're so difficult to get into. Over 1000 applicants per spot for one.

This isn't just academia.

Govvie jobs

Firefighters & Police often have even worse odds at acceptance (I know people waiting for 6+ years to get a CHANCE at a paying job as a firefighter in some cities... And then have hundreds of applicants they have to score better than.

Teachers have had a hiring freeze for years and years in many places. When I left my old job, over 700 applied for it. Yikes. That's scary. (I originally got the job because I was homeschooling, and a local principal had her kid sign up for one of my public classes, asked if I'd consider teaching part time at her school. BEFORE the hiring freeze, obviously.)

There are soooooo many things in life that boil down to luck & timing.

Someone who "works hard" may not SEE hat as good luck.

But someone else who works hard but had a parent die, or an illness, or whatever WILL see the space where all they had to so was work hard AS luck.

LDS Family Services, BYU, __________ ... And everything else.

Sme will be able to take advantage of the programs.

Some won't.

I LIKE that we have these programs out there.

Even if Im not lucky enough to be able to take advantage of them.

I have faith that I'll be lucky in other avenues.

Q

[Leah]

We have 3 boys in our ward that made it into BYU and it was all their mothers that told me this. It just bugs me that my tithing money is being used to help others get an education when my children are struggling to get any kind of work they can. Im paying for someone's kid but not mine. I know that paying tithing is a commandment but its bothering me where it goes. Does anyone know who pays for the for profit businesses? Also, if this mall was 3 billion dollars why didn't it go to feeding the poor.We could have fed a whole country!! I just don't feel right inside.Something is not right.

I am supposed to take the gossip of mothers as fact? That it is supposed to trump the information that comes from BYU?

Do you know that your taxes help pay for the education of "others"? Do you object to that, as well?

I am not sure why you would begrudge tithing going to assist people. Do you not want other people to get help if you can't get the same help? You do realize that if your children went to BYU, it would be the tithes of other people that they are benefiting from? And that you probably benefit from tithes in ways that not other people do?

Does it also upset you that the church helps people with food? Or helps out in disasters?

There have been a number of threads on the issues you bring up...lots of information in them, as well as all over the information. Accurate information, not hearsay and rumors. The mall has already been discussed ad nauseum in this forum.

I always say if people are so bothered by where their tithing goes...then don't pay tithing.

[Palerider]

Tithing money is used to buy big 18 wheelers to take food and supplies around the country.

People talk about how hard to get into BYU. It's hard to get into Notre Dame University. Tithing is used to buy clothing for those in need. All four of my kids have a college degree. We did not help them financially. If someone wants to get an education there are ways ......start with student loans.

[Palerider]

Forgot to mention.....none of my kids attended BYU.

[Vort]

We have 3 boys in our ward that made it into BYU and it was all their mothers that told me this. It just bugs me that my tithing money is being used to help others get an education when my children are struggling to get any kind of work they can. Im paying for someone's kid but not mine.

I also need to add that my son did not get into BYU..He did get into BYU Idaho but that is not where he wanted to go. If Im going to pay for something I want to be able to use it...Am I being selfish?

You misunderstand tithing. Tithing is not a tax, and the Church is not a representative government.

"Your" tithing does not belong to you. It belongs to God. If God (or his appointed leaders) see fit to stack all your tithing into a pile and light it on fire, that's his (or their) decision. Your decision is simple: Pay your tithing, or do not pay your tithing.

You have covenanted to pay your tithing. Doing so results in great spiritual blessings. Not doing so forfeits all those blessings. It would be a serious mistake for you to damage yourself and your relationship with God because your sons didn't get into BYU and you resent "your" tithing being used for someone who isn't you.

But you have your agency and are free to choose your course. Choose wisely.

[dahlia]

I'm going to hold my tongue here and just say that there are student loans available and scholarships. If the OP's kids did not go to an inexpensive community college, a cheap state school, get an academic scholarship, school coop programs where you work one year and go to school the next year, or get student loans, I don't know how much else help was wanted. Although the plan has changed from what it used to be, there is always the military and Veteran's benefits.

There are many problems in this country, getting into and paying for some kind of college somewhere is not one of them.

[pooter1]

Leah, The way you put your comment is exactly why I don't post here anymore. Im not stating anything.In my post I asked Is this true? Meaning I don't know.Im asking questions. Don't be on the defense.Is this the way you talk to people who have questions about the church? I go to another forum and those people have never ever made me feel bad about what I post. I have questions. I don't know the answers thats why Im asking. Thank you to everyone else who tried to help me and change my mind about things.Your right paying your tithing is a commandment and where ever it goes is none of my business.(Thanks to my husband for helping out last night with that one) I know Im obeying and that should be all that I need to worry about. AND before Leah had so LOVINGLY told me about taxes for other colleges,that had come to my mind last night before going to bed and I felt better and it does help others.Just having a bad day I guess and things enter my mind that shouldn't.

Edited December 28, 2013 by angel333

[pooter1]

One more thing.No one answered my question about for profit businesses.How does the church pay for those? Where does that money come from? My husband didn't know.