Looking For Advice From Non-mormons


wiley
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I am new to the forum posting concept. My first ever posts were actually at ___________. I have been posting there for a little over a month now. Below was my opening statement, which I add here to show why I went there. It also is a type of introduction as to who I am...sort of. So you can read it if you want or move on to below.

Hi all...

I am an active member of the church. When I saw news of your new billboard, I was curious as to who you were. For the last couple of days, I have been reading you posts, comments, etc. I have to say that I am excited to finally meet people who have left the church and are still friendly. At least, I hope you are friendly. You see I'm a little nervous here and I don't want to intrude if I am not wanted. Most ex-members I have met are mean "anti-mormons", and it was always hard to have a descent conversation. I have lots of questions and would love to get your thoughts. Mostly though, I would just love to try and understand your guy's feelings and all. That last sentence may seem a little weird, but oh well.

I don't really know why I am so attracted to the idea of this website, but I hope it will be what I think it is.

Let me tell you my story as way of introduction. I grew up in a military family, so we moved around a lot. I've spent half my life in the eastern states and the other half in Europe and the Middle East, including 2 years in a boarding school. I am also from a part-member family. My mother, who was born in the church, but did not become active till I was born (I am the oldest), practically carried my family through the church as my siblings and I grew up. My father was baptised when I was tenish, but still has not fully committed to the church. He is a fighter pilot, and he does love his bar. In any case, he holds the Aaronic priesthood and attends church from time to time. I did a lot of dumb things growing up, somethings typical of youth, and somethings not so typical in which I am grateful that I am still here. I went on a mission...at 20, a little older than average,...and that helped set me straight, if not spiritually, at least practically. I married a girl a year after my mission, but we divorced within two years and thankfully no kids. I should also mention that I moved to Utah right before I got married...talk about a culture shock. If you guys have never left Utah, you have no idea. I now live in Logan with my second wife, which I should add is going very well. We will soon be having our first...she will be my first daughter. I have gotten a little used to the Utah culture now that I have been here for six years or so, but I really love how beautiful it is here, especially in Logan. (I've never been around mountains and have discovered that I am an able snowboarder...though I do miss my gulf coast.) Anyways, as I ramble, I am a typical student trying to finish his masters, stressed about his future career, and so on.

Let me get back to why I am writing this post. I suppose the main drive for my interest in getting to know those here is my soon-to-be-coming daughter. Perhaps I'm different, or perhaps I'm not, but I think about all of the choices that she will make in life, and I wonder how I am going to stay sane. And I think about everything that she could possible do. Of course, one of those things, is not be an active member of the church. The gospel is important to me in my life and for that of my family, and I have every intention of teaching her about the gospel as best I can. But I feel I need to be prepared for when she will make decisions that are going to send me straight to worrytown. I mean, I understand how hard it can be to follow all of the commandments, rules, whatever you want to call them. Personally I don't see how anyone can stay straight in this world as they grow up. It's just hard. But I need to know that she will still be my girl, that I will still love her the way she needs to be loved, if and when she makes decisions that I don't agree with. Even if she leaves the church, for whatever reason, I need to know that I will be there for her. I guess that is why I am here; to try and understand your feelings (there's that word again), so that I will understand hers.

Incidently, half my siblings are not active in the church. Maybe I can work to understanding them as well. Relationship with siblings can be tricky and we are not always nice to each other.

I don't care why you have left the church, though I am interested in your stories. I don't care what you do. I have read many of your posts. Somethings I have read made me feel sorry for what some have been through, especially when involved with things like pedifillia (sp?). Some of the things you say make me laugh, because I think of certain people that you describe well that just make me shake my head. Maybe I should find a web group of active members that just don't understand why some people in the church act the way they do:) Just so you know, I have no intentions of leaving the church, and I do not want to argue with anyone...I am not a "troll", (I saw someone say). I just want to be involved in your discussions and thoughts. I hope that you can help me with my questions and be more understanding. And maybe, if your interested, I can help some of you see that many of us mormons are not so retarded and that we are not so different from the rest of the world. We just are not in the spot light all that often.

Anyway, thanks for letting me be here. Personally, whichever one of you started this whole thing...I think it is a great idea. Everybody needs to know that they are OK regardless of the choices that they make in life.

So a month latter, I am still posting, but it has not been without it's struggles. Maybe some of you can imagine and active LDS member trying to be friends with a postmormon group. At one point, I had decided to leave, because offenses were being had...but then I came back. The truth is, I had made friends there and have been taught a few lessons on how to be a better Christian. They welcomed me back openly, and after a few more posts, decided I would be good fit as an "LDS Ambassador" of sorts. They even offered to set me apart. :lol: This really is nothing special, but I'll admit I'm a little proud of myself. ^_^ I guess it is most significant, because I am the first LDS member to stick around and make friends...I think. [Wiley is being a little prideful and needs to stop patting himself on the back.]

So my questions. When I came here and noticed that there were many non-mormons and even a few postmormons (I think I spotted a few) that post here. Not only do you guys/gals post, but many are some of the long timers. I have to admit that I was surprised to find that here. Especially since my postmormon friends and I stuggled quite a bit to make it all work, and we are still working on it.

My questions for reals this time. How do you make it work? What were your intentions when coming here initially? Why have you stuck around? Did you struggle like I struggled when first here? I am really fascinated by this. I don't mean for you to answer each question individually, but I would really like to know your story. I know this is a public forum, not supported by the church and all, but still.

Mostly, I would like advice as to how I could be a better poster at the __________ site. I find it fascinating to be there, and like I said, have made friends there.

Edited by Strawberry Fields, we are going to do our best to keep the names of these types of sites off from LDS Talk.

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Not having visited the _______ site, and being unaware of your past pattern of dialogue with members there, I can't offer advice on how to better post there. It never hurts to be nice, even though I sometimes forget that to some degree from time to time.

I stumbled onto this site when I did a google search for LDS dating sites. I'm glad I found ldstalk.com...I've been unable to attend church for about 18 months now, and this has been a great help in keeping my mind and testimony sharp through the various discussions we have.

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Hi all...

...I suppose the main drive for my interest in getting to know those here is my soon-to-be-coming daughter. Perhaps I'm different, or perhaps I'm not, but I think about all of the choices that she will make in life, and I wonder how I am going to stay sane. And I think about everything that she could possible do. Of course, one of those things, is not be an active member of the church. The gospel is important to me in my life and for that of my family, and I have every intention of teaching her about the gospel as best I can. But I feel I need to be prepared for when she will make decisions that are going to send me straight to worrytown. I mean, I understand how hard it can be to follow all of the commandments, rules, whatever you want to call them. Personally I don't see how anyone can stay straight in this world as they grow up. It's just hard. But I need to know that she will still be my girl, that I will still love her the way she needs to be loved, if and when she makes decisions that I don't agree with. Even if she leaves the church, for whatever reason, I need to know that I will be there for her. I guess that is why I am here; to try and understand your feelings (there's that word again), so that I will understand hers....

Welcome wiley!

When it comes to children, you got to take it a little bit at a time. For one thing you haven't even met her yet! I would not bother worrying about the future of your daughter. Enjoy being her dad and watching her grow and learn. Have fun and only worry about the important stuff, like being healthy and keeping her safe from harm. As you become familiar with her personality, you'll kinda know what to do. I will give this advice though, don't take things to the extreme. If she comes home ten minutes late, don't ground her for a week, that's just crazy; but I know parents that react that way. Don't worry about stuff that's years away. :)

Can't really talk about being an ex-Mormon since I'm a never-Mormon, but I wish you the best in finding answers.

M.

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Well I am no long time poster... I joined this month. I came looking for some spiritual insight and also the strength to help me get through some of my own struggles. I am married to a wonderful husband. We made the decision to move from his home town in Oregon to go to Utah. I don't really know why, but we are. Hopefully for some schooling for him. Normally this wouldn't be to bad of a situation, but we have a home here in Oregon. In a town where 85% of the homes are sold to retiree's. That makes it a challenge, but we have had hope on that and have found a buyer for a home.. Anyway back to my story. We are going to have a baby in August, a little girl. We are excited over this, but it is going to be a huge struggle. You see my husband has no idea what he wants to do for a career. I do know that i want to be a stay at home mom. That is a problem. We have no job security and never really have. I was kind of the stabling force of our marriage and held the stable job while my husband has had 3 jobs in the 3 years we have been married. A lot of people say that we are living on faith. Well to put it bluntly we are. There are times in your life that you have your own personal trials and this is one of ours. We have put our lives into the hands of the Lord's and told him to take control. So anyway I think I got a bit distracted with part of my life story.... Anyway I came to this site mostly for a little bit of talking so to speak and more spiritual thinking while my husband is down in Utah making us a home. Which to end on a happy note I will be joining him at the end of the month. :D

-Kortney-

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Guest Emma Hale Smith

Hi Wiley,

I only found this site a couple of days ago, so I can't tell you much about it. However, I spend a lot of time visiting numerous Mormon-related websites, and I can say I am loving it here! The people seem really friendly and open-minded.

The _______ site is a great group of people. I visit every so often. I'm not really into post-Mormon issues, so I don't make myself known. I'm more into Mormon history. But I know they'd be a great group for the issues you brought up.

I can tell you I'm the only non-member in my all-Mormon family. I left the church fifteen years ago, and I do feel lucky in that, for the most part, they have not shunned me or anything like that. I definitely am the black sheep!

However, that's not to say there haven't been confrontations, a few very painful, and it's obvious they are not interested in my beliefs. I don't think it even occurs to them that I even "have" beliefs. For example, they've never asked me why I left the church. When I brought it up with my brother he just assumed it was because I had been offended--which was not the case.

In other words, they all just assume that I was either offended or wanted to go out and "sin," i.e., drink, smoke, have sex, etc. In fact, none of those things were true.

I can tell by your concern today that if you daughter were one day to decide she did not want to go to church that you would be concerned for "her," and not just for her staying in the church. That would be my advice. I'm not saying her church membership wouldn't be important. But if you don't listen to "her," you may run the risk of causing a rift that you may never even know about, and that you'll never get the chance to heal.

I know this, because while my family loves me, there's a great deal about me they'll never know. And yes, it hurts, so much that I don't feel safe in some situations. I've tried to discuss this with the ones I'd especially like to get closer to. But their worldview is so framed by the church, they can't imagine my worldview as being as valid as theirs--so they dismiss mine. Thus, there's a really wonderful part of me they don't, and probably will never, see.

Okay, that's my two bucks.

Take care,

Emma

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Hi Wiley,

I am a long-time post-LDS poster on this site. I first joined while I was still active LDS after hearing about it from a couple of real life friends I went to church with. At the time, I was having some issues/big questions with some of the church history and present day stuff. They thought I might be able to get some of my questions answered here. Well, I came to not believe in the truth of the church anymore and over the course of that year officially left.

I kept posting bc I wanted to 'explain' myself and why I left, as well as do a little debating. The period right after leaving the church was rough here. I made a few enemies, as I was bitter and felt duped.

But there were several posters here who were open-minded enough to continue discussions with me and didn't judge me for my decision to leave. I enjoyed communicating with those people and developed friendships with them. I've left for brief periods but always wondered how everyone was doing, so I'd pop back in briefly, and eventually just stayed. Some of my friends are still here and some are not. There are always new posters who come around and bring interesting discussion, and I haven't found this great mix on any other MB's.

Over time, I have stopped being bitter and totally respect LDS and their beliefs. Sometimes I will still fall into 'debate' mode, but most of the time I try to hang around 'General Discussion' and not even step foot in the 'Gospel' forum. ;)

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Guest Username-Removed

Wiley,

I came to this website a few months ago because I like forums, but had never been to a religious forum. I like forums because you tend to find out more what people really think. Also, I like to voice my story.

Welcome to the forum.

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Kortney:

Don't know if you have ever been to Utah, BUT...

well, I moved here not too long ago, and I only have two words...culture shock.

Actually I have many words. I love Utah. I live in Logan which is a beautiful place. Utah all around is a great state. But it does take some getting used to. The culture is definitely different. At least so from the East coast where I am from. I guess you guys are already set in where you are going, but if you happen to be coming to Logan and Utah State, then you are in for a treat. I would also recommend you guys attend a married student ward. There are only 11 stakes in the whole world, most of which, of course, are here in Utah. I think there are only two in Logan. But it is a unique opportunity because everyone is pretty much going through the same trials you are and it is nice to be able to relate to others. Even if you are not yet in school, go anyways if you are planning to be. Just a recommendation.

Thanks to those who offered advice for my little girl. She is the center of most of my thoughts lately, besides my wife. I am super excited for her arrival. I wrote that little introduction a while ago. And when I added it here, I didn't really read it again, and forgot how personal it was. I mostly just added it to show why I was at postmormon. It was probably unnecessary as people do seem to be very friendly here. Anyway I am sure raising my daughter will be a wild ride and am looking forward to almost every minute of it.

shanstress70: There are always new posters who come around and bring interesting discussion, and I haven't found this great mix on any other MB's.

Emma Hale Smith: However, I spend a lot of time visiting numerous Mormon-related websites, and I can say I am loving it here! The people seem really friendly and open-minded.

This is really the crux of my question I think. How is that everyone is so friendly here. It was something that I had not expected. Maybe the question can't really be answered, and I'll just have to stick around and learn from other's examples. At least this much I can say, you should be proud of yourselves for being so open and friendly. While I have only posted recently, I have seen other sites and the "great mix" is hard to come by, which is understandable in my opinion. I haven't seen other mormon posting sites, so I don't know if they are as friendly as this one here. I would like to think so, but maybe not. Anyway, I'm happy to be here.

What is a MB?

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Wiley,

I have been to Utah.. I grew up 3 hours from SLC in Idaho and visited often as a child. My husband and I lived there for a month after we were married too, but we weren't ready for that "Big shock". I think we are now though. We will be living in Provo so I think there are a few young married adult wards. At least I know the ward my husband has been attending while we are apart in Lehi has mostly people in our age group. I think he said there was one couple in their 40's, the rest were all Young like us, only with many more childeren.

Anyway Thanks for your Advice. We love Logan and considered moving there. Mainly because it looks just like where we are now, only we don't get below zero all the time in the winter. We were actually sealed in the Logan Temple and we just fell in love with that area. Anyway I seem to be rambling on. So welcome to the site!

-Kortney

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Wiley,

Welcome to the forum, I am new here also (actually you've been here a lot longer than I).

I recommend that if it does not magnify your spirit, then don't partake in it (I try to do that but I'm not perfect)

With that said, I would stay away from or at least tread very carefully at an anti-LDS site. You may find your own testimony eroded. The fact that your the only active member who has stuck around there and the only one currently there should tell you something. I have no ideas of the topics you've discussed or what goes on there. But from the tone of your initial post It would seem that you feel somewhat special over there and maybe that is appealing to you. Maybe if they tell you things like it's refreshing to be able to speak to an LDS member and not feel like they're trying to convert them or tell them they are wrong etc. it is flattering. I'm just guessing here as to what the appeal might be. Bottom line, you need to evaluate your reasons for being there and then evaluate how wise it is to stay. I'm not saying we should cast a blind eye to any criticisms of our church and our faith, but you need to be smart about it and stay true to your faith. I'm all for religious discussions with people who are earnestly seeking a better understanding, but I stay away from close minded people who are only out to prove their point and there is no serious open discourse. These types of people are not interested in learning and they often take pleasure belittling you for beleiving something contrary to their own beleifs. Also ther are people who are very jaded by their own bad experiences with the church. BTW, this is true of groups that leave any church, there's always a bunch who were mistreated and even austracised and who feel that their religion was ruining their lives. It's a shame but it happens.

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Mostly, I would like advice as to how I could be a better poster at the __________ site. I find it fascinating to be there, and like I said, have made friends there.

If by ___________ we are to understand the exmo message board and by better you mean more like the other posters who post there, then you could try being a bitter victim who blames the church and everybody but him/herself for their own troubles... being deceitful would also be a plus. Don't forget to whine and be paranoid.

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Mostly, I would like advice as to how I could be a better poster at the __________ site. I find it fascinating to be there, and like I said, have made friends there.

If by ___________ we are to understand the exmo message board and by better you mean more like the other posters who post there, then you could try being a bitter victim who blames the church and everybody but him/herself for their own troubles... being deceitful would also be a plus. Don't forget to whine and be paranoid.

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Crimson,

If I may ask. What is keeping you from Church for 18 months? Work or something?

Sorry a-train, I just now read through the recent posts on this thread and saw your question. I promise, I wasn't ignoring you. :)

I thought I had posted in a thread recently what's been going on, but I'll re-post an excerpt from another thread on suffering that jehote started.

Let me tell you what I learned about fairness and justice...My father was the Stake Executive Secretary. On his way to an early meeting at 6am one Sunday morning, another driver had a siezure, hit my dad's car, and put my dad in a five-week coma. There were broken bones, severe brain damage, dislocated joints, etc... That was Nov. 2005.

I've helped my mom care for my dad since day one. Neither of us wanted him in a facility with strangers to look after him. It's been hard. To put it lightly. The man who'd never yelled at or touched his family in anger that I can remember since childhood, now acted outrageously due to his brain injury. Not knowing where he was or who my mom and I were, he now yelled at us, bit us, kicked us, hit us, head-butted us, put us in head-locks, punched us, slapped us, etc... It was hell. He's slowly getting better, still doesn't remember my name, but at least now he's through his agitated phase and doesn't assault us anymore. Try feeding a 180 lb. adult who's intent on hurting you badly for no rational reason.

In short, there is no way my mom can care for my dad by herself. I don't like leaving her alone with him unless I have to, since his behavior is unpredictable at best and both she and I have received some nice injuries in my dad's recovery process. :closedeyes: I have three older brothers, but two live on the east coast and the third is moving to the east coast soon. They're all married and/or going to grad school, so they've only been able to fly out for a few days each.

I hope my dad begins to remember who I am, where he is, what his relationship is to my mom and me, etc... For all intents and purposes, my dad died on 5 NOV 2005. The man who lives with us now talks in a different voice, acts differently, and in short, is a shadow of his former self. Once he can understand what's what and regain his personality, I'll be getting closer and closer to being able to drive an hour and a half roundtrip to my local singles' ward. We'll see.

p.s. After the accident, I didn't post on the site for five months. The first post I made after that period can be read here. Back then I went by ApostleKnight, before someone hacked the site and deleted my profile.

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Guest mamacat

hi Ck ~ i am so awed and humbled at your integrity and fortitude. i love that you and your mother made the choice to care for your father yourselves...what amazing love, strength and faith you have. your father is very blessed to have family such as you. he must be a quite excellent father.

reading your wise words made my heart beat with faith and inspiration. your vision is profound, in the river of time, with your spiritual lense. i've had some similar events in my life, and the thoughts that you've shared here help tremendously. i'm going to try to bring my telephoto testimony into greater focus now.

i am quite certain that your father will heal with the enormous amount of love he has surrounding him....i wish and pray for his healing...and spiritual sustenance and strength for you and your mother. the holy spirit is so strong in you.

love, mamacat

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<div class='quotemain'>

Mostly, I would like advice as to how I could be a better poster at the __________ site. I find it fascinating to be there, and like I said, have made friends there.

If by ___________ we are to understand the exmo message board and by better you mean more like the other posters who post there, then you could try being a bitter victim who blames the church and everybody but him/herself for their own troubles... being deceitful would also be a plus. Don't forget to whine and be paranoid.

Snow you've been gone so long you're getting rusty; you have duplicate posts. :P

M.

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The reason we have a blast here? It's all because of me. :wow::rolleyes::blink::P:D

I was looking for a chat room, an lds chat room -- I wanted to be safe and comfortable. I was lonely and needed friends. I signed up in 2006 and came a couple of times. I don't remember much about my experience then except I met Acez at that time. I forgot all about this place and then I got a spam Personal Message one day in January 2007 from a member account. He was actually Buddhist (doubt if he's around) and was sending every one his Buddhist website. I read it, it was cool, gave me a lift for the day. But I remembered this site! So I have been on pretty much everyday since then (remet Acez and a lot more great people) -- same reason -- I need friends. I need a place to express myself. I have been supported by people and I have had the opportunity to support others. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable with what happens here, but it always seems to work itself out. Also, some of the strange memories and crises that have happened -- wouldn't trade them for the world. I am a person who is deeply satisfied to meet and know people who are different from myself. I love chatting with people from all over the world. I love chatting with people who believe differently. Everyone here that I have gotten to know more deeply is coming from some where and has had heart breaking trials, or is still having them, and yet displays such faith and courage, whether they know it or not. I have been glad for the chances I have had to bear my testimony.

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Wiley,

Welcome to the forum, I am new here also (actually you've been here a lot longer than I).

I recommend that if it does not magnify your spirit, then don't partake in it (I try to do that but I'm not perfect)

With that said, I would stay away from or at least tread very carefully at an anti-LDS site. You may find your own testimony eroded. The fact that your the only active member who has stuck around there and the only one currently there should tell you something. I have no ideas of the topics you've discussed or what goes on there. But from the tone of your initial post It would seem that you feel somewhat special over there and maybe that is appealing to you. Maybe if they tell you things like it's refreshing to be able to speak to an LDS member and not feel like they're trying to convert them or tell them they are wrong etc. it is flattering. I'm just guessing here as to what the appeal might be. Bottom line, you need to evaluate your reasons for being there and then evaluate how wise it is to stay. I'm not saying we should cast a blind eye to any criticisms of our church and our faith, but you need to be smart about it and stay true to your faith. I'm all for religious discussions with people who are earnestly seeking a better understanding, but I stay away from close minded people who are only out to prove their point and there is no serious open discourse. These types of people are not interested in learning and they often take pleasure belittling you for beleiving something contrary to their own beleifs. Also ther are people who are very jaded by their own bad experiences with the church. BTW, this is true of groups that leave any church, there's always a bunch who were mistreated and even austracised and who feel that their religion was ruining their lives. It's a shame but it happens.

Nice to meet you David. You can ignore the tone of the initial post. I was just being dumb. And as far as criticisms and religious discussions go, I have no to very little interest in such topics with them. They are not the right people to discuss such things.

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