transgender help


guness
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I know there are a few other threads like this but most seem to be about transsexualism rather then transgender. I am looking for any and all information on the churches stance on transgender. I have read many studies on the matter, so I know a lot about transgender it self, but can't seem to find anything from the church.

I am seeing a therapist on the matter, but I am some one who likes to have all the info from as many sides as I can get before I make a move. So if you know anything please let me know.

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I just read a really great book called Voices of Hope about same gender attraction. I assume that isn't your issue. But there is one person who writes his personal story of how since he was a little boy he has always wanted to be a girl. He has dressed in women's clothing in secret. But he is an active and very much believing member of the church, married and a father to several children. So obviously he isn't incapable of fulfilling his gender role. Very interesting read.

I believe the church's stance is the same as for those with SGA. You are loved and the leaders have empathy for your situation. But no action may be taken to alter your body without losing your membership. I could be wrong but I think that's the final say. An exception would probably be considered if one were to find out they had outer organs and body parts of one gender but internal organs of another. I suppose a choice could be made and surgery done to match up the outer to inner.

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Just know that the Lord loves all his children. And to answer your question, the Church's stance strongly discourages major body modification but ex-communication may be on a case to case basis. An example might be someone that has undergone a transgender procedure prior to converting to the gospel. That said, you are welcome to attend church regardless of your sexual orientation or outwardly appearance, though your participation may be limited.

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I'd be really surprised to find out that the church has a stance, since the difference between transgender & transsexual is so incredibly misunderstood outside of the trans community. Even in the LGBTQA community it's often misunderstood. Add in all the variables (like many places requiring a year of transgender living prior to any surgical intervention, and male transgender still dating/attracted to women v male transgender dating/attracted to men, and don't get me started on the bi-crowd, or asexual, or drag, or transvestite) and things get reeeeeally murky.

I know the one place where you WILL run into problems regardless of male to female, or female to male... Is holding the priesthood. As in women do not.

Which branches into where would you go on Sundays... Priesthood or Relief Society... Means probably the nursery, or home & not fully participating unless you got approval from on high. Right?

Q

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I'd be really surprised to find out that the church has a stance, since the difference between transgender & transsexual is so incredibly misunderstood outside of the trans community. Even in the LGBTQA community it's often misunderstood. Add in all the variables (like many places requiring a year of transgender living prior to any surgical intervention, and male transgender still dating/attracted to women v male transgender dating/attracted to men, and don't get me started on the bi-crowd, or asexual, or drag, or transvestite) and things get reeeeeally murky.

I know the one place where you WILL run into problems regardless of male to female, or female to male... Is holding the priesthood. As in women do not.

Which branches into where would you go on Sundays... Priesthood or Relief Society... Means probably the nursery, or home & not fully participating unless you got approval from on high. Right?

Q

Thanks for expanding a bit more than I had.

After the many discussions on whether the Church has given the "green light" on gender procedures, I was left understanding that Church officials have discouraged it. Whether this means someone will be ex-communicated or unwelcomed (socially), I would imagine is a case by case basis. As I said earlier, there are bound to be some limitations in participation, as you have also mentioned in the latter. It's a sticky topic and very close to home for me personally. That said, I recently met a young woman here in SLC that identifies as "gender fluid" though she is biologically female. How she explained it is that there are periods when she feels more masculine than feminine, and on those days, she dresses more obviously male. She has not specified a sexual preference but she is a church member and just got out of Young Women's not too long ago.

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From CHI 1:

This from 3.3.4 "Issuing Recommends in Special Circumstances"

Members Who Have Undergone a Transsexual Operation

A member who has undergone an elective transsexual operation may not receive a temple recommend.

And this from the 6.7.2 "When a Disciplinary Council May Be Necessary section:

Transsexual Operation

Church leaders counsel against elective transsexual operations. If a member is contemplating such an operation, a presiding officer informs him of this counsel and advises him that the operation may be cause for formal Church discipline. Bishops refer questions on specific cases to the stake president. The stake president may direct questions to the Office of the First Presidency if necessary.

This from 16.3.3 "Baptism and Confirmation Interviews: Converts":

The mission president must conduct an interview and receive authorization from the First Presidency before a prospective convert may be baptized and confirmed if the person:

1. Has committed murder (see 16.3.14).

2. Has been involved in the practice of plural marriage (see 16.3.8 and 16.3.9).

3. Has undergone an elective transsexual operation (see 16.3.16).

4. Is currently on legal probation or parole (see 16.3.14).

And this from the same "Baptism and Confirmation Interviews: Converts" section:

16.3.16 Persons Who Are Considering or Have Undergone a Transsexual Operation

A person who is considering an elective transsexual operation may not be baptized or confirmed. Baptism and confirmation of a person who has already undergone an elective transsexual operation require the approval of the First Presidency. The mission president may request this approval if he has interviewed the person, found him or her to be otherwise worthy, and can recommend baptism. However, such persons may not receive the priesthood or a temple recommend.

Hope this helps.

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I know there are a few other threads like this but most seem to be about transsexualism rather then transgender. I am looking for any and all information on the churches stance on transgender. I have read many studies on the matter, so I know a lot about transgender it self, but can't seem to find anything from the church.

I am seeing a therapist on the matter, but I am some one who likes to have all the info from as many sides as I can get before I make a move. So if you know anything please let me know.

Hello! I am a representative from the Transgender/Intersexed group from Northstar, an organization trying to help Latter-day Saints who struggle with same sex attraction or gender dysphoria live Gospel centered lives in harmony with the church. The Voices of Hope referenced above was a product of Northstar and the piece written about the transgendered person was written by a member of my group.

If you'd like to find out more, we are here to help! My email is [email protected]. I can answer your questions there if you'd like. We'd love to have you join us!

Check out our general website at North Star International | A Resource for Individuals & Families Dealing with Same-Sex Attraction

Follow this link to join our good groups discuss group with many active members.

Rules and Obligations of Membership | North Star International

Look forward to hearing from you!

Kate

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Thanks for the responses. Torostoros all of that pertains to transsexualism I'm trying to find what the church says about transgender, thanks for posting that though.

anatess LGBTQA stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Questioning, and Allied.

Guess I should explain the difference between transgender and transsexual. Transgender feel or identify more with the opposite gender then what their birth sex is, that doesn't mean they want to go out and get sex reassignment surgery. Transsexuals feel their sex and gender don't match and seek out means to change that. there is also a big difference between gender and sex, sex being the physical part and gender being what you feel.

Now I am transgender and I am a long way away from even thinking surgery. I guess the biggest thing I wonder about is hormones, and if the church has anything to say about them. They and be stopped and the effects can for the most part be reversed.

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Transsexuals fall under the general umbrella term transgendered. The primary commonality is that both experience (suffer from) gender dysphoria - a powerful feeling of disconnect between one's primary sex characteristics and their internal gender identity.

Hormones are merely one form of treatment for those with gender dysphoria (GD). They have proven to be especially effective and some, once having taken hormones find their GD manageable and seek no further treatment. For others, hormone therapy isn't enough and other measures must be taken to control their GD.

Some hormone effects are reversible while others are not. For example, male bodied people who take estrogen tend to develop permanent breast tissue, though not nearly as pronounced as natal females. Female bodied people who take testosterone tend to develop permanent facial hair and a lowered voice.

For some these changes are welcome, but not for others so each must decide what works best in treating their GD. I encourage any member of the church seeking hormone treatment to get the counsel of an endocrinologist and a therapist experienced in gender identity issues, then to report their progress to the bishop to keep him in the loop.

We can talk more privately if you wish, or continue our conversation here.

Kate

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Thanks for expanding a bit more than I had.

After the many discussions on whether the Church has given the "green light" on gender procedures, I was left understanding that Church officials have discouraged it. Whether this means someone will be ex-communicated or unwelcomed (socially), I would imagine is a case by case basis. As I said earlier, there are bound to be some limitations in participation, as you have also mentioned in the latter. It's a sticky topic and very close to home for me personally. That said, I recently met a young woman here in SLC that identifies as "gender fluid" though she is biologically female. How she explained it is that there are periods when she feels more masculine than feminine, and on those days, she dresses more obviously male. She has not specified a sexual preference but she is a church member and just got out of Young Women's not too long ago.

Doesn't this describe a whole lot of women? It can depend on the time of the month for me. During my period I'm happy to wear jeans and t-shirts or sweats everyday. Mid-month I may want to pretty up a bit more. There are some women I know who are "gilded", fancied and fussied up everyday and for any occasion. I think culture and how one was raised has as much to do with that as anything else. My mom was very casual, wore my dads old shirts sometimes. But she was female through and through. I'm the same way. I never even painted my toenails till I was about 45 and my daughters ( of which I have 5) who had learned it from their friends wanted to paint mine.

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I guess the biggest question would be what should I expect from them?

Another question I have is does the church frown on taking hormones?

I would also like to add that I am 2-5 months away from the decision to take hormones.

Edited by guness
just adding more
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I guess the biggest question would be what should I expect from them.

Well, it depends a lot on your perception. Hormones, regardless of how much or how long you take them will not change your sex. The physical changes are usually very subtle (softer skin, development of breast tissue, and redistribution of fat across the body, a change in sex drive). It seems you have no desire to transition, so you are probably most interested in the psychological effects.

How to describe it... essentially, it takes all the confusion and anxiety you feel over your gender and quiets it. It makes you feel okay being you. For me personally, I felt "right" - an overwhelming feeling of rightness. Now perhaps "right" is what "normal" people feel, but after feeling "wrong" for so long, it is such a relief. I could get my life back, I wasn't so consumed with the depression and anxiety and confusion associated with being dysphoric all the time. That isn't to say I didn't struggle at times, but those struggles were much more manageable.

Kate

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I guess the biggest question would be what should I expect from them?

Another question I have is does the church frown on taking hormones?

I would also like to add that I am 2-5 months away from the decision to take hormones.

No the church has no stance on hormones. They should be considered a standard treatment for individuals with GD. I would still include my bishop as I progress - not for his approval necessarily, but for his guidance for you as a transgendered person who is trying to live the Gospel with so much trying to pull you away.

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Thanks that is very helpful. I have yet to really talk to anyone about this other then my therapist, so I guess my next step should be to talk to others maybe start with my bishop.

Once you join us at Northstar, I can share with you materials that our members have put together specifically to share with bishops to help educate them on our condition and remove any biases.

Keep the Lord close in anything you do. Constantly seek revelation. Concerning GD, the only wrong answer is to do nothing at all, but it sounds like you are doing something.

There are many though who would use this to tell you that you MUST be X or Y and then do A or B. Let the Lord guide you and do what you feel is best for you allowing yourself to be subject to a course correction if so directed by the Lord.

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Doesn't this describe a whole lot of women? It can depend on the time of the month for me. During my period I'm happy to wear jeans and t-shirts or sweats everyday. Mid-month I may want to pretty up a bit more. There are some women I know who are "gilded", fancied and fussied up everyday and for any occasion. I think culture and how one was raised has as much to do with that as anything else. My mom was very casual, wore my dads old shirts sometimes. But she was female through and through. I'm the same way. I never even painted my toenails till I was about 45 and my daughters ( of which I have 5) who had learned it from their friends wanted to paint mine.

No, she makes effort to appear male.

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Voices of Hope is great. I really enjoyed the book. After reading it I feel I can better empathize with people struggling with these issues. It really opened my eyes and heart.

I cannot tell you how much joy it brings to me to hear you say that. I'm glad to know people who may not be immediately effected by SSA or GD are benefiting from it. I have known many of the contributors for several years. Unfortunately, I pulled my own piece from it before publication because of difficulties I was having with my ward. I regret doing it now, but I worried I might leave the church and hated the idea of some person being inspired by my addition only to find out I left the church afterwards and getting demoralized.

We are hoping to do another one in time and hope to include more GD entries in it.

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