Finally - some official word on the planet thing


Recommended Posts

The Church has been writing a lot of interesting essays lately. There's this one, one entitled "Book of Mormon and DNA Studies," and one entitled "Race and the Priesthood." They're all well written and very timely.

The idea to write these essays has been planned for some time.

... I think in this day and age it's become apparent that we really do need to provide a series of answers that will help our members better understand these chapters of our history."

LDS Church enhances web pages on its history, doctrine | Deseret News

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its funny because after over 20 years in the Church and over a year before that investigating, I have never heard a member state that 'we get our own planet' I have only read it from Anti-LDS sources.

I understand the 'Inherit all the Father has' doctrine, but to turn that into 'You get your own planet when you die' is mistaken at best and deceitful at worst and designed to shock rather than enlighten. Anti-Mormons with their deceitful sayings and their 'shock-appeal', did more to get me into the Church than the missionaries ever did, because I studied actual doctrine and proved the Anti's wrong, leaving me with the Truth.

;) Besides I want my own Universe, not just a planet :D

Edited by mnn727
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, like... where's the actual essay? Me can't find it on lds.org, me click lots of thingies but no find. halp meeeeeeee.

edit: Ah ha! There she is! Hiding in front of my face like that. https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

Edited by jerome1232
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read most of the article, and it meshes well with the explanations posters give here. It was especially clarifying to hear that while LDS expect to "share in divinity," they will always worship the Father. This is why some LDS scholars accept the term "henotheism" to describe LDS theology--though others continue to insist that monotheism is accurate.

My question: Yes, the "inherit a planet" canard was caricature--but, does exaltation lead to being worshiped? That is, if I were to achieve exaltation, would the time come when I might do some creating, and that my creation might worship me (even as I continue to worship Heavenly Father)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its funny because after over 20 years in the Church and over a year before that investigating, I have never heard a member state that 'we get our own planet' I have only read it from Anti-LDS sources.

I understand the 'Inherit all the Father has' doctrine, but to turn that into 'You get your own planet when you die' is mistaken at best and deceitful at worst and designed to shock rather than enlighten. Anti-Mormons with their deceitful sayings and their 'shock-appeal', did more to get me into the Church than the missionaries ever did, because I studied actual doctrine and proved the Anti's wrong, leaving me with the Truth.

;) Besides I want my own Universe, not just a planet :D

I was a member for 25+ years prior to your twenty, and I was definitely taught that if we were righteous enough to attain exaltation we would create and populate our own "planet." As you can see in the references below, "world" is the word preferred by the Church in official publications, but I recall using both "world" and "planet" consistently and interchangeably in Sunday School, Seminary and Institute. It was always a favorite topic of discussion, especially as we got older and became more creative, perceptive, and comical.

So, no, the belief that Latter-day Saints will earn their own planet is not something conjured by deceitful anti-Mormons. I agree it has been caricatured by them, but the concept originated with the Church itself.

A few references:

From Ensign 2002, Education for Real Life: "We learn both the spiritual things and the secular things “so we may one day create worlds [and] people and govern them” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, ed. Edward L. Kimball [1982], 386).
From Gospel Fundamentals, Chapter 36, Eternal Life: They will even be able to have spirit children and make new worlds for them to live on, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done.

And my favorite:

From the Presidents of the Church Student Manual, Lorenzo Snow:“Only a short time before his death, President Snow visited the Brigham Young University [then Brigham Young Academy], at Provo. President Brimhall escorted the party through one of the buildings; he wanted to reach the assembly room as soon as possible, as the students had already gathered. They were going through one of the kindergarten rooms; President Brimhall had reached the door and was about to open it and go on when President Snow said: ‘Wait a moment, President Brimhall, I want to see these children at work; what are they doing?’ Brother Brimhall replied that they were making clay spheres. ‘That is very interesting,’ the President said. ‘I want to watch them.’ He quietly watched the children for several minutes and then lifted a little girl, perhaps six years of age, and stood her on a table. He then took the clay sphere from her hand, and, turning to Brother Brimhall, said:

“‘President Brimhall, these children are now at play, making mud worlds, the time will come when some of these boys, through their faithfulness to the gospel, will progress and develop in knowledge, intelligence and power, in future eternities, until they shall be able to go out into space where there is unorganized matter and call together the necessary elements, and through their knowledge of and control over the laws and powers of nature, to organize matter into worlds on which their posterity may dwell, and over which they shall rule as gods’” (Snow, Improvement Era, June 1919, 658–59).

Elphaba

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose by some yardsticks, PC, it would.

But, then again--does my three-year-old "worship" me in the here-and-now? When do we cross over that line from "love" or "revere" or "adore" or "praise" or "obey", into "worship"?

I think of the prophets, when face to face with angels, how they would fall to their knees--or even prostrate--and how those angels stopped them, and proclaimed that they were mere servants, like the prophets. Worship happens when there are no spiritual brakes put on--because the fall to the knees--the prostration--is an appropriate response to the presence of an all-powerful, holy God.

So, while we might consider the love of a 3-year-old towards her parents to be a kind of worship, it is an ignorant worship--or a child-like innocent love. BTW, Heavenly Father wants that from us too. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, PC.

This is a bit of a threadjack, but . . . would a corollary to your definition be, that worship to which one sets bounds, isn't really worship at all? And if that's the case, then since none of us is really capable of perfect obedience, could one argue that none of us is capable of true worship?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, PC.

This is a bit of a threadjack, but . . . would a corollary to your definition be, that worship to which one sets bounds, isn't really worship at all? And if that's the case, then since none of us is really capable of perfect obedience, could one argue that none of us is capable of true worship?

Very interesting. I would say, yes. We are not capable of true worship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, no, the belief that Latter-day Saints will earn their own planet is not something conjured by deceitful anti-Mormons. I agree it has been caricatured by them, but the concept originated with the Church itself.

Elphaba

Correct; however, anti-Mormon's were the first to put a specious twist on an otherwise plain and simple doctrine to understand...or at least to extrapolate the understanding of what it means to be one with God, or to obtain a fullness from the Father.

We become one with God, obtain a fullness of the Father...to "Mormons earn their own planet...and have high hopes to be worshipped" when we don't. Our objective is to become like our Father in Heaven.

Thank you for sharing these wonderful quotes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct; however, anti-Mormon's were the first to put a specious twist on an otherwise plain and simple doctrine to understand...or at least to extrapolate the understanding of what it means to be one with God, or to obtain a fullness from the Father.
Yeah, it's a good thing the anti-Mormons weren't busy that day. The anti-Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would not have been nearly as specious. :rolleyes:
We become one with God, obtain a fullness of the Father...to "Mormons earn their own planet...and have high hopes to be worshipped" when we don't. Our objective is to become like our Father in Heaven.
From at least the '60s to the mid-'70s, I WAS taught that my husband and I could earn our own world/planet and we would be worshipped by our spirit children who would eventually inhabit that planet, in exactly the same manner Heavenly Father had earned the Earth, sent us, his spirit children to it to gain physical bodies, and we worshipped Him. That's not to say the anti-Mormons are completely innocent, as I don't recall ever hearing we would "have high hopes" for any of this. So, I'll give you that one.

Look, I am not saying anti-Mormons don't exist, or they haven't done their damage. We all know they do and have. But far too often they are blamed, especially by people too young or too new to know otherwise, for the creation of misleading issues the Church finds difficult and/or embarrassing when those issues originated, and should have been dealt with by, the Church itself. IMO, this is one of those issues.

By the way, when we discussed the characteristics of our respective planets/worlds in early morning Seminary one day back in the early '70s, I decided that on my planet, kittens would never grow up. :P

Elphaba

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, PC.

This is a bit of a threadjack, but . . . would a corollary to your definition be, that worship to which one sets bounds, isn't really worship at all? And if that's the case, then since none of us is really capable of perfect obedience, could one argue that none of us is capable of true worship?

"True worship" happens in the presence of God. No, I do not need to be omniscient. In fact, when a lost soul realizes they need God, and cries out, "God forgive me...a sinner..." s/he engages in true worship. When a believer/convert undergoes baptism, it usually involves true worship. Etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good Evening Elphaba. I hope you are doing well! :)

From at least the '60s to the mid-'70s, I WAS taught that my husband and I could earn our own world/planet and we would be worshipped by our spirit children who would eventually inhabit that planet, in exactly the same manner Heavenly Father had earned the Earth, sent us, his spirit children to it to gain physical bodies, and we worshipped Him. That's not to say the anti-Mormons are completely innocent, as I don't recall ever hearing we would "have high hopes" for any of this. So, I'll give you that one.

Look, I am not saying anti-Mormons don't exist, or they haven't done their damage. We all know they do and have. But far too often they are blamed, especially by people too young or too new to know otherwise, for the creation of misleading issues the Church finds difficult and/or embarrassing when those issues originated, and should have been dealt with by, the Church itself. IMO, this is one of those issues.

By the way, when we discussed the characteristics of our respective planets/worlds in early morning Seminary one day back in the early '70s, I decided that on my planet, kittens would never grow up. :P

Elphaba

The issue isn't that we will have our own planets. It is that this statement by itself doesn't sufficiently nor realistically encapsulate what the hope of the members of the Church are. The idea isn't to be able to have our own planets, even if the truth includes such a concept. That statement by itself is too limiting and it isn't the whole truth. What the anti-Mormon doesn't say because they probably don't care to understand, is that we are trying to become like Heavenly Father. What does Heavenly Father do? He brings to pass the immortality and the eternal life of man. What does that entail? Apparently it entails having spirits live a temporal existence on a planet like Earth. But, the point of all of this planet stuff is that when we are Gods we will be filled with charity and we want, just like Heavenly Father does, to bring others to a state of exaltation so they too can enjoy a fullness of joy. Adam fell that men might be, men are that they might have joy. That is what the plan of salvation is ultimately designed for. We gain our glory by lifting, encouraging, and helping others to rise from a state of ignorance, fear, and doubt to a state of knowledge, joy, and power.

The building of planets in order to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life on man is not a concept that many understand or even care to understand. If the focus is just on, "Hey, we get our own planet and others will worship us" that is a caricature of glorious and beautiful things that we can't yet understand fully.

The main point I'm trying to make is that becoming like God is not becoming power hungry. It is not becoming prideful. It does not entail having dominance and control over others. This is the picture that the caricature of anti-Mormonism paints and it is false. It is all about having a fullness of love and helping, and lifting others so that they might have a fullness of joy. That is God's work. There is no greater work than to save souls and to do so with power we must have charity, the pure love of Christ, within us.

-Finrock

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its funny because after over 20 years in the Church and over a year before that investigating, I have never heard a member state that 'we get our own planet' I have only read it from Anti-LDS sources.

I understand the 'Inherit all the Father has' doctrine, but to turn that into 'You get your own planet when you die' is mistaken at best and deceitful at worst and designed to shock rather than enlighten. Anti-Mormons with their deceitful sayings and their 'shock-appeal', did more to get me into the Church than the missionaries ever did, because I studied actual doctrine and proved the Anti's wrong, leaving me with the Truth....

...The issue isn't that we will have our own planets....

Finrock, in a way it is. You and Elphaba have acknowledged that this belief is valid and has been taught by the LDS church. But some members say they have never heard such a belief taught and would rather blame anti-Mormons for the belief than acknowledge that it is legit.

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its funny because after over 20 years in the Church and over a year before that investigating, I have never heard a member state that 'we get our own planet' I have only read it from Anti-LDS sources....

mnn727, if you would have joined in the 70s, you would have heard something about it.

...Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225,000 of you may become gods. There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe. And the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it. I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us, for every one of us 225,000....

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/the-privilege-of-holding-the-priesthood?

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finrock, in a way it is. You and Elphaba have acknowledged that this belief is valid and has been taught by the LDS church. But some members say they have never heard such a belief taught and would rather blame anti-Mormons for the belief than acknowledge that it is legit.

M.

That depends. Many anti-Mormon claims are twisting of concepts to make them sound weird or creepy or sci-fi.

The anti-Mormon concept is that we'll be "given" our own "planet" as some sort of reward for good behavior. This is not true even if there are a few words of truth in it. The false words render the overall concept false. Any LDS person who believes this is believing things incorrectly. This has never been taught by the church and is entirely invalid. It is not legit.

Along the same lines, any LDS person who doesn't understand that exaltation and recieving all that the Father has potentially means the creation of universes (including planets) either isn't educated enough or has never bothered to think about it at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share