And . . . THIS is why you don't let the Feds run an auto company.

[Just_A_Guy]

Did the Obama White House Protect GM? | The Fiscal Times

[Guest]

JAG... this is just another day in this Chicago-Style Administration.

The only reason why Obama is still President is because he owns the media. Period. Because, trust me, if we had a "real" media, this would've been investigated long, long, long ago... and so would all the ginormous blunders this Administration has done in the last 5 years.

It's amazing the rabid support people still have on this government. I don't believe they are that stupid. I do believe they are that clueless.

Edited March 12, 2014 by anatess

[applepansy]

Anatess, I agree with you. I would like to add that its not just the media though. Its the weatlhy socialist backers who are really running this dog and pony show. Obama is just the face of the snake.

JAG, thanks for sharing.

[Guest]

Anatess, I agree with you. I would like to add that its not just the media though. Its the weatlhy socialist backers who are really running this dog and pony show. Obama is just the face of the snake.

JAG, thanks for sharing.

I agree.

But, corruption from wealthy backers have no prayer if you have an investigative media checking your every move/decision.

Benghazi is a perfect example of a "swept under the rug" event. The day Susan Rice took to TV, she would have been creamed by a "real" media. That "youtube video" cover story would have been blown wide open on Day ONE.

This is a part of How To Be A Dictator 101. Marcos' first moves to extend his office in the Philippines was to ban unfiltered broadcasts and ban civilian-owned firearms.

Edited March 12, 2014 by anatess

[Windseeker]

Not long ago when government took over industry in places like Italy and Germany it was called Fascism. It's rather telling that you don't hear Unions complain anymore about "Corporate Welfare".

[Palerider]

This why you don't want Govt involved in many things.

[Canuck Mormon]

So that passes for journalism these days? An inflamatory headline, throw in a bunch of coincidental happenings and twist everything to your view, then don't even answer the question you asked in your headline? Pathetic.

Did Obama do everything perfectly with GM and Chrysler? No.

Did Obama do what he should have to save GM and Chrysler? Yes.

Have both companies paid back all the loans (with interest)? Yep.

These problems in these cars were well known long before Obama took office. Instead of blaming him, why not blame the NHTSB? They're the ones who issue safety recalls, not the president.

[Just_A_Guy]

From the article, it looks an awful lot like NHTSA (which comes under the DOT, an executive agency) was giving political cover to GM against inquiries about safety issues in GM vehicles by congressmen--Democratic congressmen, to boot--in 2011, virtually contemporaneously with DOT Secretary LaHood's suppression of a report that partially exonerated Toyota during the unintended-acceleration brouhaha while fanning the flames of public opinion against Toyota.

If you think "journalism" involves covering that kind of thing up until someone is willing to connect the dots on-the-record--honestly, I don't know how to respond to that.

Incidentally: GM paid back the loans; but the taxpayers took a bath on the stock options that were part of the bailout. And I'm still not convinced that we wouldn't have been better off without GM and Chrysler taking up market share that could be occupied by more nimble start-ups. Conservatives have spent the last six years being force-fed political "change". Rather interesting that unions and their political allies wouldn't put up with two or three years of economic "change", no?

[Lakumi]

This why you don't want Govt involved in many things.

rather have them then the big corperations

[Guest]

rather have them then the big corperations

Big Corporations can't MANDATE anything, including buying their stuff. You can run away from a Big Corporation. You can't run away from government. Well, unless you're a quadzillionaire and can buy your own private autonomous island.

[Lakumi]

Big Corporations can't MANDATE anything, including buying their stuff. You can run away from a Big Corporation. You can't run away from government. Well, unless you're a quadzillionaire and can buy your own private autonomous island.

I don't personally feel the need to, the government doesn't have much effect in my day to day life, those corperations do, like where I live, most of the small businesses are gone and a few box stores reign. They have this town by the neck and it is falling apart.

[Windseeker]

I don't personally feel the need to, the government doesn't have much effect in my day to day life, those corperations do, like where I live, most of the small businesses are gone and a few box stores reign. They have this town by the neck and it is falling apart.

Have you considered that perhaps Big Government with all it's wonderful complex insane regulation might have created an environment where small business fails and big business thrives with it's army of lawyers and lobbyists?

You see the lie you have been fed is that Big Government does not like Big Business...but the fact is Big Government not only loves Big Business but Big Business loves Big Government, the bigger the Government the more bureaucracy, red tape and regulation and the harder it is for mom and pop to stay afloat and navigate all the taxes and regulations.

The truth is the more nanny state you request (thru your vote) the more your going to see monolithic corporate interests thriving and being served. You've killed incentive and you've strangled opportunity. Welcome to the Brave New World.

[kapikui]

I agree.

But, corruption from wealthy backers have no prayer if you have an investigative media checking your every move/decision.

Benghazi is a perfect example of a "swept under the rug" event. The day Susan Rice took to TV, she would have been creamed by a "real" media. That "youtube video" cover story would have been blown wide open on Day ONE.

This is a part of How To Be A Dictator 101. Marcos' first moves to extend his office in the Philippines was to ban unfiltered broadcasts and ban civilian-owned firearms.

The wealthy socialist backers own the media outlets.

[Lakumi]

Have you considered that perhaps Big Government with all it's wonderful complex insane regulation might have created an environment where small business fails and big business thrives with it's army of lawyers and lobbyists?

You see the lie you have been fed is that Big Government does not like Big Business...but the fact is Big Government not only loves Big Business but Big Business loves Big Government, the bigger the Government the more bureaucracy, red tape and regulation and the harder it is for mom and pop to stay afloat and navigate all the taxes and regulations.

The truth is the more nanny state you request (thru your vote) the more your going to see monolithic corporate interests thriving and being served. You've killed incentive and you've strangled opportunity. Welcome to the Brave New World.

Well I live in Canada where the Government runs very, very differently!

I voted NDP in every election, hard to really say where they fall, much more left, though Canada doesn't go as far right as the US, and we have more then 2 parties

[kapikui]

I don't personally feel the need to, the government doesn't have much effect in my day to day life, those corperations do, like where I live, most of the small businesses are gone and a few box stores reign. They have this town by the neck and it is falling apart.

As someone trying to start a small business, it isn't competition from larger businesses that are causing me problems. It's not running afoul of government regulations that keeps me from breaking out. As an aside, the people that benefit most from the government regulation are the large corporations, as they have the resources to comply with the byzantine regulations imposed, and such regulations have a strangling effect on smaller businesses, thus helping to get rid of the smaller competition.

Making sure I don't commit a felony by forgetting to file some obscure piece of paperwork costs too much to ever go beyond a sole proprietorship business.

[Lakumi]

As someone trying to start a small business, it isn't competition from larger businesses that are causing me problems. It's not running afoul of government regulations that keeps me from breaking out. As an aside, the people that benefit most from the government regulation are the large corporations, as they have the resources to comply with the byzantine regulations imposed, and such regulations have a strangling effect on smaller businesses, thus helping to get rid of the smaller competition.

Making sure I don't commit a felony by forgetting to file some obscure piece of paperwork costs too much to ever go beyond a sole proprietorship business.

Again, I'm Canadian...I live in Canada... no idea how your government works or how it effects you...

Certainly doesn't seem to be as difficult here, from those I have talked to, but who knows I've never sat down and really jammed a convo about it with them.

[Canuck Mormon]

Incidentally: GM paid back the loans; but the taxpayers took a bath on the stock options that were part of the bailout. And I'm still not convinced that we wouldn't have been better off without GM and Chrysler taking up market share that could be occupied by more nimble start-ups. Conservatives have spent the last six years being force-fed political "change". Rather interesting that unions and their political allies wouldn't put up with two or three years of economic "change", no?

Sure it could have been handled differently, but it needed to be handled. Imagine all those GM and Chrysler employees suddenly unemployed. And it wouldn't be just them. The suppliers would lay of thousands, the auto dealers, the mechanics. Dealer mortgages would fail, banks taking less risk and not allowing any loans. The financial impact would be staggering.

Done right? NOPE!!

Needed to be done? Absolutely.

[Traveler]

Sometimes I feel that threads like this are more politically motivated than they are concerned with what our government is doing. When “conservatives” are in power the liberals always complain about how lawless and corrupt those in power are and vise versa when the “liberals” are in power. Many of you will probably be surprised to learn that the use of the IRS to harass political opponents goes back at least to Nixon and likely much before that – like when income tax was instituted.

Any power given to government is a license for abuse. We must expect it. But we must also realize that governments are necessary. I like Milton Friedman’s analogy of government making comparisons to officiators at sporting events. It is not so much what the rules of the game are – the most important thing is that the rules be blindly applied without regard to who is playing in the game. For example what-ever the rules of retirement funds are – they should be the same, even if it is Social Security. Every congressmen and president elected in the last 60 years would be in jail for embezzlement if that was the case.

The problem is not so much the laws (regulations) or even the foolish laws that are passed it is the methods of enforcement that favors one player over another that is the real problem. But like the NBA there are many plays that are border line and it may be hard to determine when a particular player or team is being favored in a particular contest. But most often we only complain when the bad calls are going against our favorite team or players. It is not until we are willing to do something when our team and players are favored that there is any possibility that we have any credibility for any kind of a real complaint.

The Traveler

[Palerider]

rather have them then the big corperations

Not me....let's see.....social Security.....Postal Service.....IRS

[Palerider]

So that passes for journalism these days? An inflamatory headline, throw in a bunch of coincidental happenings and twist everything to your view, then don't even answer the question you asked in your headline? Pathetic.

Did Obama do everything perfectly with GM and Chrysler? No.

Did Obama do what he should have to save GM and Chrysler? Yes.

Have both companies paid back all the loans (with interest)? Yep.

These problems in these cars were well known long before Obama took office. Instead of blaming him, why not blame the NHTSB? They're the ones who issue safety recalls, not the president.

Obama wasn't the guy that got the saving started. The guy he blames for everything actually got the saving of GM and Chrysler going with TARP money.....but what's the point of being a politician if you can't tell a story and it benefits you for the better.

[Palerider]

Sure it could have been handled differently, but it needed to be handled. Imagine all those GM and Chrysler employees suddenly unemployed. And it wouldn't be just them. The suppliers would lay of thousands, the auto dealers, the mechanics. Dealer mortgages would fail, banks taking less risk and not allowing any loans. The financial impact would be staggering.

Done right? NOPE!!

Needed to be done? Absolutely.

I guess I am wrong but I thought there were many people that lost their jobs in the auto industry? Here in the part of the Midwest I live in the Chrysler Plant shut down. Now nothing but tumble weeds blow thru the place. Then the ripple effect from other suppliers that layer off in the area was huge. When you go to Kokomo Indiana there lots of people layer off in that area. Up in Keokuk Iowa at the transmission plant they layer off lots of people.

Yes...the impact has been staggering.

[Just_A_Guy]

Sure it could have been handled differently, but it needed to be handled. Imagine all those GM and Chrysler employees suddenly unemployed. And it wouldn't be just them. The suppliers would lay of thousands, the auto dealers, the mechanics. Dealer mortgages would fail, banks taking less risk and not allowing any loans. The financial impact would be staggering.

Done right? NOPE!!

Needed to be done? Absolutely.

Why--you think people would quit needing cars, or car parts? There would be some chaos, yes--even very painful chaos on an individual level; as the markets re-aligned themselves to new conditions. But, this is what used to be called "opportunity". We've tried the blue-corporate model of lifelong employment and substantial pensions. It was great, while it lasted. But it's also finally manifesting itself to be, for the most part, unsustainable. And the worst part is that now we've got a group of workers, executives, and would-be entrepreneurs who have never been taught to expect change or risk, and can't cope with it when it comes.

You can't demand government save big corporations from themselves on the one hand, and then grouse about "stagnation" and complain about how these big inefficient corporations are ruining the business for the little guys on the other hand. The one creates the other.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[Blackmarch]

rather have them then the big corperations

The big corps and organizations are generally dictating gov behavior....

[Guest]

Well I live in Canada where the Government runs very, very differently!

I voted NDP in every election, hard to really say where they fall, much more left, though Canada doesn't go as far right as the US, and we have more then 2 parties

Lakumi, being Canadian, you have no reason - nothing at all - to say Big Government doesn't impact you. You don't pay over 50% of your income to the Canadian government and claim your government does nothing for you.

It might be that you just happen to be on the side of society that benefits from Big Government. Or, you think you are because the capitalists are easier targets to blame for misfortune.

The "brotherhood" between Big Corporations and Big Government are the same in all democratic capitalist nations - May it be the US, Canada, Mexico, or the Philippines. The main difference is in the visibility of the corruption. Mexico and the Philippines doesn't bother hiding it. USA spins it. Canada's govt is too entrenched in people's lives the govt can say the leprechauns are to blame and the people will believe it (ok, I'm exaggerating).

Edited March 13, 2014 by anatess

[Lakumi]

Lakumi, being Canadian, you have no reason - nothing at all - to say Big Government doesn't impact you. You don't pay over 50% of your income to the Canadian government and claim your government does nothing for you.

The fact of the matter is, you just happen to be on the side of society that benefits from Big Government. Or, you think you are because the capitalists are easier targets to blame for misfortune.

The "brotherhood" between Big Corporations and Big Government are the same in all democratic capitalist nations - May it be the US, Canada, Mexico, or the Philippines. The main difference is in the visibility of the corruption. Mexico and the Philippines doesn't bother hiding it. USA spins it. Canada's govt is too entrenched in people's lives the govt can say the leprechauns are to blame and the people will believe it.

I donno, Canada and the US treats and talks about its governments a lot differently.

I never hear people here saying we need less of it. What the people talk about in the US politically and what they talk about here is very different.

Only same I can think of was for a short time gay marriage was in the debates...

I don't feel the government is entrenched in my life.

Even going into the process of applying for disability money.