Supposed problem in the ward over


Backroads
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Bini, on 05 Apr 2014 - 1:28 PM, said:

Backroads, I guess I'm confused. Is this a "modesty issue" or a "dress ritzier issue"? The two are different.

 

 

Cocktail dresses can be cheap. You don't have to walk into a department store and spend $150 on one. Just go to Marshall's or TJMaxx and get one for under $20. And you'll still have money left over for groceries... Also, there are a multitude of styles when it comes to cocktail dresses. You can certainly find very appropriate ones that are knee-length, and cover up your garment areas. Now, if this is a "dress ritzier issue", I think that's something that ought to be challenged. Who is anyone to say that their "best attire" is the standard for everyone? Not sure how these dramas get resolved but it sounds like the bishop has had little to no luck. If things are truly that bad, I would opt-out until the ladies can be civil and meet on common ground. There's no point in attending a function if you're just there clashing against each other, baiting each other, and feeling resentment towards each other.

 

 

Last note on the rich... My parents live in a super snobby and ritzy area in southern Utah. I detest attending church with them because their ward feels "flashy" to me. But I can also relate to what Suzie posted, as we moved into an "old money" area, and the people here live in breath-taking residences, but are also the most humble folks you'll ever meet. Totally different "rich culture" here than where my parents are at. So, not sure how to explain that really. I guess it boils down to case by case basis, some folks are pride-filled, and others aren't.

 

The impression I'm under seems to be somewhere in between modesty and ritzy.  Sunday best seems good enough on Sundays, but for entering another's home, a polite woman would pay for a top-of-a-line dress (more than $20) in order to be, well, polite and respectful.  I don't think anyone is questioning anyone's modesty, but it does seem the older women are envisionining a more formal event at their homes and expect everyone to dress appropriately.  My grandmother even said buying cheap clothes is, well, cheap.

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I think I understand now, Backroads.

 

 

That said, I think being able to tell designer/high fashion apparel from generic is something a trained eye would be able to do, and less so for the average person, regardless if you're well off or poor. I have complimented boots before that I could have sworn were top dollar and I was surprised to be told they were about $60.

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I think if I were in the ward and thought I could get away with a cheap dress, I'd wear it to please the old ladies while silently mocking the whole situation and leave it at that.

 

It's probably cruel of me to say so, but I doubt they're going to change their views.

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Backroads, I'm just not truly convinced that these "old toads" would know the difference between a Vera Wang and something generic brand. I can tell you that some of my designer stuff doesn't parade their brand all over the item, which is what people always think, that you'll see a tag or something embroidered across it saying: MICHAEL KORS. Now, if you're trying to pull off a diamond encrusted cocktail dress with plastic rhinestones, then yeh, obviously cheap. But a simple elegant black cocktail dress can be difficult to separate from cheap to expensive by the eye alone. Just sayin'.

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This is one of those situation where a the old wisdom of the basic black dress can help.  People probably won't be able to change the older ladies' attitudes.  But, they will be dead or wearing diapers at some point, so the issue of dress won't be permanent. Until then just wear a classic little basic black dress.  I still feel every woman should have one in their closet.  They are practical and can be worn in almost any situation. 

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PS. A part of what makes clothing look "cheap" is the style of it and how you put it together and wear it. This can make the price tag irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

 

Bini, I get what you're saying.

 

But suppose the poor girls in this ward were to "mess up" putting something together and did, despite best efforts, come looking less than stellar but rather in the territory of "I bought a cheap dress and it shows".

 

Yeah, it's a big "what if" mostly for speculation, but if the situation is as bad as the rumor mill has it buying dresses won't fix things if the girls still don't know how to look right.

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I have read nearly all the posts in this thread - The Ward Sisters who have turned up their noses are not truly cultured and refined at all. I was raised on the "other" side of the railway track - poor, but with dignity. The truly wealthy - Olde Money wealthy would NEVER EVER turn their noses up and look down on someone who was doing their best and wearing their best, no matter how old, thread bare or 'Out of Fashion' it may be.

 

My first husband worked as a garbage man. He drove truck and picked up the trash/garbage in one of the small towns up the highway. This is where the attorney's, judges and doctors lived. The wife of one of the judge's was an attorney herself and not of "Olde Money". Every season she was tossing out the clothes she had bought the previous season. These clothes she bought in New York, California and in Seattle. Her personal buyer had perfect taste and selected quality, classic clothes. To please her employer she selected these clothes in the trendy colors of alleged seasons.

 

Fortunately for me she was my size, and my first husband brought the black trash bags home instead of tossing them in the land fill. For five years her clothes filled my closets. Yep, two full size closets! Husband had 1/4 of one closet for his clothes. As long as I stayed at 135 pounds, I had dozens of clothes. From tailored suits to $1,500 -$5,000 evening gowns. I live in a teeny little hick town on the Central Oregon Coast - at that time our population was only 985. We didn't even have cement sidewalks. No, we didn't have 'board walks' either. We did have one signal light though  :D

 

I kept the clothes that I liked the best, that really complimented my coloring and temperament, and gave the rest to my sisters ward in Seattle. "Olde Money" don't buy or dress because it is Trendy - they buy quality, style and design that will last for decades. A well tailored suit for a woman, can be added to over the years with blouses, scarves, and even ties (men's ties). 

 

Had I not gained weight I would still have those classic, quality garments to this day - 30-35 years later! AND they would still be in 'Fashion'.

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I've been rethinking this.  Again, I don't know too much about what's really happening, but I'm now thinking inexpensive dresses may be the way to go.  Perhaps this older women aren't carrying about money as much as "the proper look".

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 Perhaps this older women aren't carrying about money as much as "the proper look".

Me thinks it just may be the older women are just a clique and they "think" they have the proper look. Does The Emperor's New Clothes ring a bell here? 

 

Wear what is comfortable, what you can afford and what is modest. IF that is not what these senior's like, then have your RS evening meetings at Church (where it is supposed to be in the first place), have the dress code: Modest Casual, and don't exclude anyone.

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This is one of those situation where a the old wisdom of the basic black dress can help.  People probably won't be able to change the older ladies' attitudes.  But, they will be dead or wearing diapers at some point, so the issue of dress won't be permanent. Until then just wear a classic little basic black dress.  I still feel every woman should have one in their closet.  They are practical and can be worn in almost any situation. 

 

Whether or not the LBD is a wardrobe staple is not the issue.  Yes it's versatile.  Yes, it's practical.  Yes, every women "should" have one.  But it's not something you wear to a typical mid-week Relief Society activity.  And no one should feel pressured to do so, or guilted/shamed if they don't or can't.

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As far as inexpensive dresses go....

- Not everyone has a body type that is in line with cheap clothes. While petit women can always shop in the children's section, very tall women & Reubenesque women are limited to specialty shops. Most of which are VERY expensive. Not SAKS expensive, but $100 for a pair of jeans expensive.

- When some families are having to get food from the bishop, struggling to save up for medical & dental, may even be in notice of shut-off on basic things like utilities... Even $20 (assuming they can get anything for that, they might be stuck with $100+ options) is too much to DEMAND in order to participate in a sisterhood. Which is what insisting on purchasing clothes in order to attend an RS function is doing. In the game of hard choices (my electricity bill, or my daughter's asthma med) a new dress doesn't even enter into it!

Q

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