Doctrines on Preparing and Thriving in Marriage

[The Folk Prophet]

Yah, because, unfortunately, their are those who don't perceive your comments as meaningless.

 

So...what's your point? You have done your duty to correct me according to your view. I have done my duty to correct you according to my view. We may both sleep well tonight knowing we have done our duties.

[MrShorty]

 

The church does not teach these things. If people within the church teach them they are teaching false principles, and if people in the church are learning them they are learning false principles. Regardless, people are learning them. In my personal experience (obviously limited as compared to the membership at large) I have never heard any of these ideas \"taught\", though I have heard these ideas \"learned\". Wherein people are learning things that are not taught is an interesting phenomenon -- assuming my perception is valid.

 

If your experience in church/religious communities has been 100% free from incorrect teaching around sex, you have led a charmed life (IMO). My experience has been full of challenges discerning truth from error as it relates to sexuality, and I\'m afraid I can\'t claim that my discernment has been 100% error free. I will agree with you that these incorrect teachings are not coming from God, but they still seem to creep into the church through various cultural inroads.

Elizabeth Smart, amongst others, has spoken out against the false \"chewed gum\" type analogies that creep in through the \"abstinence\" movement that we so want to promote amongst our youth. It seems that, no matter how often we \"refute\" these analogies, they keep creeping back in.

The falsehood that I think really got a hold of me was the \"lust (and all sexual desire was lustfull) is the complete opposite of true love\" and \"anyone who wants to have sex with you cannot possibly love you\" kind of teaching. I brought that belief into marriage. So, when frequency started to drop off, I figured it should be easy to let it drop off, because I was not so selfish and lustful as to expect any minimum level of sexual interaction. After a few years, the frustration reached a breaking point and I started studying the true relationship between sexual desire and true love. Still not sure I have fully worked it all out, but I do feel like I am getting closer to understanding it than I was when I first got married.

In many ways, I think the real challenge here is a principle I have seen attributed to Pres. Harold B Lee. Something along the lines of -- \"We need to not only teach clearly enough to be understood, but clearly enough we are not misunderstood.\" IMO, much of our effort at teaching about the relationship between sexuality, marriage, and spirituality has not been clear to never be misunderstood.

[The Folk Prophet]

   

If your experience in church/religious communities has been 100% free from incorrect teaching around sex, you have led a charmed life (IMO). My experience has been full of challenges discerning truth from error as it relates to sexuality, and I\'m afraid I can\'t claim that my discernment has been 100% error free. I will agree with you that these incorrect teachings are not coming from God, but they still seem to creep into the church through various cultural inroads.

Elizabeth Smart, amongst others, has spoken out against the false \"chewed gum\" type analogies that creep in through the \"abstinence\" movement that we so want to promote amongst our youth. It seems that, no matter how often we \"refute\" these analogies, they keep creeping back in.

The falsehood that I think really got a hold of me was the \"lust (and all sexual desire was lustfull) is the complete opposite of true love\" and \"anyone who wants to have sex with you cannot possibly love you\" kind of teaching. I brought that belief into marriage. So, when frequency started to drop off, I figured it should be easy to let it drop off, because I was not so selfish and lustful as to expect any minimum level of sexual interaction. After a few years, the frustration reached a breaking point and I started studying the true relationship between sexual desire and true love. Still not sure I have fully worked it all out, but I do feel like I am getting closer to understanding it than I was when I first got married.

In many ways, I think the real challenge here is a principle I have seen attributed to Pres. Harold B Lee. Something along the lines of -- \"We need to not only teach clearly enough to be understood, but clearly enough we are not misunderstood.\" IMO, much of our effort at teaching about the relationship between sexuality, marriage, and spirituality has not been clear to never be misunderstood.

 

I'm sorry, but Elizabeth Smart is not likely to represent sound thinking in this regard. The fact that she has turned around and essentially blamed the church is ridiculous. How about we blame the rapists for the psychological abuse of rape? Moreover, a child misunderstanding the difference between physical virginity and virtue does not validate an abandonment of true principles. Chastity, virtue, modesty.

 

Lust is wrong. The church has always taught this. But they have never taught that physical desire and passion equates to lust. Rather, the clear teaching has always been that passions are to be kept within the Lord's bounds -- never that passions are bad.  The church's teachings on this are not ambiguous or difficult to understand. Like many things in the church, however, they are is easy to judge and condemn without real understanding.

 

I would not, and could not, contend that no mistaken teachings or approaches have crept into the church. Obviously. But if one understands the gospel, the context of most of these teachings are not that difficult either. The chewed-up gum analogy, for example, is clearly not ideal. But it does not, nor has it ever, meant that the mere act of sex makes you into this chewed-up gum. If that were the case, divorced women or widows would all be labeled unclean chewed-up gum. This is clearly not the case. Along the same lines, Elizabeth Smart's interpretation was incorrect. No one considers rape victims chewed-up pieces of gum. So, yeah...fix the way we teach things...but let's keep some perspective* here.

 

* Edit: Lest you think I'm criticizing you directly, I'm referring more to the perspective posed by Elizabeth Smart. Also, when re-reading your post, I realized I'd failed to address the last paragraph, that I agree with completely. I think the misunderstanding cannot and should not be blamed on the church. But I also feel that the church can and should do their best to clarify these teachings and try to make it less likely that people will misunderstand.

[CrossfitDan]

I'm sorry, but Elizabeth Smart is not likely to represent sound thinking in this regard. The fact that she has turned around and essentially blamed the church is ridiculous. How about we blame the rapists for the psychological abuse of rape? Moreover, a child misunderstanding the difference between physical virginity and virtue does not validate an abandonment of true principles. Chastity, virtue, modesty.

 

What is not sound thinking regarding Smarts perspectives? And how has she "blamed" the church?

[Guest]

I want to just take a little commercial break to say...

 

... if you were a bunch of Filipinos, you'll be talking entirely differently about sex or not talking about it at all... lots of happily married people in the Philippines.

[Lakumi]

I want to just take a little commercial break to say...

 

... if you were a bunch of Filipinos, you'll be talking entirely differently about sex or not talking about it at all... lots of happily married people in the Philippines.

There's far too many poisonous snakes in the Phillippnes, including Pit Vipers, Cobra's, Coral Snakes and Sea Snakes, that is a deal braker if I ever heard one! Threat of Cobra's could put a lot of strain on my marriage.

[omegaseamaster75]

I want to just take a little commercial break to say...

 

... if you were a bunch of Filipinos, you'll be talking entirely differently about sex or not talking about it at all... lots of happily married people in the Philippines.

99 million people in the Philippines, you must have a lot of friends

[Lakumi]

99 million people in the Philippines, you must have a lot of friends

I think if you come from a country with a culture then you understand its people a lot more then say Americans, since the US has no culture (I think the closest it comes is race cars, baseball and telling other countries about how its the best in the world then wonder why the world hates them).

[Dravin]

I think if you come from a country with a culture then you understand its people a lot more then say Americans, since the US has no culture (I think the closest it comes is race cars, baseball and telling other countries about how its the best in the world then wonder why the world hates them).

 

I daresay that ranks up there with one of the more ignorant things you've posted on the board. If Americans exist as a people then they have a culture.

[Lakumi]

I daresay that ranks up there with one of the more ignorant things you've posted on the board. If Americans exist as a people then they have a culture.

 

It was a joke, wait until you hear about the jokes about my (Canada's) culture...

[Guest]

I daresay that ranks up there with one of the more ignorant things you've posted on the board. If Americans exist as a people then they have a culture.

It was a joke, wait until you hear about the jokes about my (Canada's) culture...

Lol! I am happy to realize that I know Lakumj well enough now to get the joke the first time.... Lakumi, like I said, you're a breath of fresh air that drives the stuffiness away.

[Guest]

99 million people in the Philippines, you must have a lot of friends

I do. Literally. You must be Filipino if... More than half of your relatives can't be found in your family tree.

But, let me just give you a snapshot of Filipino life.... Condoms (and any artificial birth control products) are like porn movies.... You go to certain drug stores, look left, then right, then over your shoulder to make sure nobody sees you, then you go to the very back of the store where you give secret signals to a store clerk and he'll hook you up... and you'll be lucky if that clerk doesn't know anybody in your family because there's a good chance he'll rat you out... If you're married, you go to your doctor to discuss birth control options...

[Lakumi]

I do. Literally. You must be Filipino if... More than half of your relatives can't be found in your family tree.

But, let me just give you a snapshot of Filipino life.... Condoms (and any artificial birth control products) are like porn movies.... You go to certain drug stores, look left, then right, then over your shoulder to make sure nobody sees you, then you go to the very back of the store where you give secret signals to a store clerk and he'll hook you up... and you'll be lucky if that clerk doesn't know anybody in your family because there's a good chance he'll rat you out... If you're married, you go to your doctor to discuss birth control options...

where I grew up you can get them in little machines in shopping malls.

[omegaseamaster75]

It was a joke, wait until you hear about the jokes about my (Canada's) culture...

only a joke when you get called out...

[Lakumi]

only a joke when you get called out...

 

you don't know me, at all. so I will excuse the fact that you have no idea how I interact with the people here and how I think.

[pam]

you don't know me, at all. so I will excuse the fact that you have no idea how I interact with the people here and how I think.

 

For the record, I wouldn't have taken it as a joke either.  I would have taken it as an insult to Americans.

[Lakumi]

For the record, I wouldn't have taken it as a joke either.  I would have taken it as an insult to Americans.

Well they can't all be winners, for the record I obviously do think America has a culture, sure I may think it's strange and sometimes silly but they seem happy so who am I to rain on their fun. And I think your country gets along with eachother better then mine does (I don't think the US looks at itself and says "jeez that state sucks!")

Canada has, well depends on where you live to dictate which provinces you dislike, usually Quebec is on the list though

[omegaseamaster75]

you don't know me, at all. so I will excuse the fact that you have no idea how I interact with the people here and how I think.

Hey you got exposed, it's cool don't take it so personally accept it and move on. No one here will hold a grudge.......at least I won't. Water under the bridge.

[Lakumi]

Hey you got exposed, it's cool don't take it so personally accept it and move on. No one here will hold a grudge.......at least I won't. Water under the bridge.

 

I'm not here to impress you, I could care less what anyone really thinks. If I did care I would have died long ago.

But as I said before, I make jokes like that all the time, I have a darker/stranger sense of humour, sometimes I say I tell jokes for me and not others.

[Canuck Mormon]

I'm not here to impress you, I could care less what anyone really thinks. If I did care I would have died long ago.

But as I said before, I make jokes like that all the time, I have a darker/stranger sense of humour, sometimes I say I tell jokes for me and not others.

Caeful Lakumi. Remember that this is an American website, and anything critical of the US with get the thread locked. Only Americans can bash other countries!!

[The Folk Prophet]

Only Americans can bash other countries!!

 

Where? Show me where Americans bash other countries and the thread doesn't get locked.

 

Sheesh. This forum's turned quite anti-American in the past few days.

 

It's funny how you caution someone to not say anything critical and then proceed to do just that. Awesome. 

[notquiteperfect]

Caeful Lakumi. Remember that this is an American website, and anything critical of the US with get the thread locked. Only Americans can bash other countries!!

 

False accusations in my book, Canuck!