Civil Discourse

[The Folk Prophet]

My experience in this forum has been an interesting one. In many other forums you don't really expect civility. By and large I've learned to stay off other forums accordingly. Civility is moderated on some, of course, and that helps. But even moderation cannot ensure complete civility, because it is it somewhat subjective.

 

I have had many experiences on this forum where I'm conversing along and out of nowhere someone comes in and, from my perspective, spews incivility into the proceedings. When and if I engage (which, I must admit, it's hard not to), the incivility surmounts, building on itself and the conversation degrades quickly.

 

Here's the thing though -- when I do engage, it often comes out that the other party thought me uncivil in the first place, in spite of the fact that I may have felt the conversation was moving along nicely and quite civil. It also often seems to be someone interjecting incivility, rather than a response by someone I have been engaged with (not always, of course). The phenomenon is fascinating. It's like a traffic jam - a natural result of too many cars on the road, rather than an idiot driver (though many times it could be an idiot driver's fault too). Sometimes it seems like the incivility is no one's fault either, after all is said and explained, but just the natural, unavoidable result of foruming (that's a word, right?) And, of course, sometimes it's directly someone's fault. :)

 

I thought it would be interesting to discuss methods we use to remain civil. (Or perhaps, discuss how we fail to do so at times). Civility facilitates communication, but more importantly, in a gospel themed forum, it behooves us all to strive for Christ-like behavior. And whereas sometimes the failure to be Christ-like is my own fault, sometimes I am making my best effort and still manage to offend. Clearly I have things to learn, as we all do. So I thought a discussion to that end would be useful.

 

So the question: What methods do you use in your interactions on this forum to keep your discourse civil?

[Lakumi]

Yeah normally, on any other forum when someone interjects in a friendly conversation with more angry or something taken completely out of context, I would just either ignore them completely, tell them to get lost (abit with more swears) or be completely honest about how I don't care about them or their opinions.

But here I felt I ought to be a tad more civil, delving into my actual beliefs without any humour (in terms of belief, I inject my humour most everywhere else) was new territory for me and a unique undertaking.

While inside I can still be a crude, uncaring person, I try and rise above it for civil discussions.

[NeuroTypical]

So the question: What methods do you use in your interactions on this forum to keep your discourse civil?

 

I don't always shoot for civility, but when I do, I go out of my way to apologize if things are taken more harshly than I intended.

 

Also, I just finally talked Pam into letting me change my username to something less inflammatory. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I don't always shoot for civility, but when I do, I go out of my way to apologize if things are taken more harshly than I intended.

 

Also, I just finally talked Pam into letting me change my username to something less inflammatory. 

 

It's always difficult for me to apologize when I know I'm not actually being uncivil or harsh...but I usually try to swallow my pride and apologize anyway...usually.... :) Well...that's probably a lie. Not usually. Sometimes.

 

So...taking a guess... Loudmouth? 

[LittleWyvern]

So the question: What methods do you use in your interactions on this forum to keep your discourse civil?

 

Remembering that two perfectly good and rational people can often disagree with each other.

[The Folk Prophet]

Remembering that two perfectly good and rational people can often disagree with each other.

 

Disagreement does not need to equate to incivility though. There are those those on the forum that I disagree with fairly consistently, but the discourse remains entirely civil.

[Guest]

I gave up trying to figure out civility on the internet.

I\'m Filipino. English is only my 3rd Language. THIRD. And American is not my natural culture. I have to learn - and it wasn\'t easy to get used to - that when people ask me How Are You? They actually don\'t care to hear your story. And if I get on the elevator with someone I know and I don\'t ask How are you, they think that\'s rude. And that\'s on top of having to figure out when I dropped a pitcher of juice on the floor and my cousin tells me, Nice Going, anatess... He actually meant to be rude about my dropping the juice instead of complimenting me for how I displayed poise after ooops. And that\'s with me having the benefit if facial expressions and voice into nations to go by. No such thing on a forum.

So, what I do... I take everything I see/read as having good intentions except when it is blatantly striking a mean chord and hope everyone affords the same courtesy to me.

At the end of the day, it\'s just the internet. For all I know I\'m talking to a bunch of 12-yr-olds laughing their bums off for having succeeded in instigating chaos...

[prisonchaplain]

Anatess is so right.  We assume way to much on these forums.  Sometimes, strings degenerate when one phrase, often meant as an introductory transition into the subject, gets taken out of context, and debated.  So, I try to keep the main thing the main thing, and yes, to assume that posters mean well.  When I'm pretty sure they do not, I tend to disengage.

[LittleWyvern]

Disagreement does not need to equate to incivility though. There are those those on the forum that I disagree with fairly consistently, but the discourse remains entirely civil.

 

I mention this because I think we tend to assume too much about people if we disagree (the other person is stupid, is apostate, etc.)  In nearly all cases it's just two people that are perfectly reasonable and rational people (and here I would add both find members of the Church), they just happen to disagree.  That's it.

[The Folk Prophet]

Anatess is so right.  We assume way to much on these forums.  Sometimes, strings degenerate when one phrase, often meant as an introductory transition into the subject, gets taken out of context, and debated.  So, I try to keep the main thing the main thing, and yes, to assume that posters mean well.  When I'm pretty sure they do not, I tend to disengage.

 

You are the paramount example of civility in these forums PC. 

[Dravin]

I bite my tongue, depending on my mood I bite it a lot, and when it seems I'm about to bite my tongue in half I try and step away. I step back and try and remember that not everyone is going into conversations with the same goals. Some folks go in with an idea of a back and forth, an engaging of each other's ideas, and other go into them with the idea of simply sharing ideas without necessarily trying to engage them. So when the engager joins a conversation with a sharer it's a good thing to try and give both the benefit of the doubt, the engager isn't trying to be mean and argumentative and the sharer isn't trying to be disingenuous and dismissive. I'm usually the engager but depending on my mood I'm the sharer.

[The Folk Prophet]

I gave up trying to figure out civility on the internet.

I\'m Filipino. English is only my 3rd Language. THIRD. And American is not my natural culture. I have to learn - and it wasn\'t easy to get used to - that when people ask me How Are You? They actually don\'t care to hear your story. And if I get on the elevator with someone I know and I don\'t ask How are you, they think that\'s rude. And that\'s on top of having to figure out when I dropped a pitcher of juice on the floor and my cousin tells me, Nice Going, anatess... He actually meant to be rude about my dropping the juice instead of complimenting me for how I displayed poise after ooops. And that\'s with me having the benefit if facial expressions and voice into nations to go by. No such thing on a forum.

So, what I do... I take everything I see/read as having good intentions except when it is blatantly striking a mean chord and hope everyone affords the same courtesy to me.

At the end of the day, it\'s just the internet. For all I know I\'m talking to a bunch of 12-yr-olds laughing their bums off for having succeeded in instigating chaos...

 

 

Anatess is so right.  We assume way to much on these forums.  Sometimes, strings degenerate when one phrase, often meant as an introductory transition into the subject, gets taken out of context, and debated.  So, I try to keep the main thing the main thing, and yes, to assume that posters mean well.  When I'm pretty sure they do not, I tend to disengage.

 

Tone, in my opinion, can very often be read in the way words are put together. But not always. There are many times that I see tone taken wrongly, or have had my tone taken wrongly, or have taken other's tones wrongly. I think some go about with chips on their shoulders, actually, and take offense often where it is not meant. However, there are other times where people are clearly stating something in a way that is meant to be less than civil. Sometimes, you call them on it, and they deny it. That's when I disengage. I will call people on lack of civility, but if they don't own up to it, what good does it do to continue. Disengaging can be hard, however. Pride rears it's ugly head in the anonymity of forum-land even easier than it does in person. People say things in forums that they would never, ever say in person. I say that's a check point we could all follow. Would I say this to their face using these words, etc...?

[The Folk Prophet]

I mention this because I think we tend to assume too much about people if we disagree (the other person is stupid, is apostate, etc.)  In nearly all cases it's just two people that are perfectly reasonable and rational people (and here I would add both find members of the Church), they just happen to disagree.  That's it.

 

But that's really another point. That is to say, whether we find someone else's p.o.v. entirely stupid or blatantly apostate, we should still interact with them civilly, right?

[Guest]

Tone, in my opinion, can very often be read in the way words are put together. But not always. There are many times that I see tone taken wrongly, or have had my tone taken wrongly, or have taken other\'s tones wrongly. I think some go about with chips on their shoulders, actually, and take offense often where it is not meant. However, there are other times where people are clearly stating something in a way that is meant to be less than civil. Sometimes, you call them on it, and they deny it. That\'s when I disengage. I will call people on lack of civility, but if they don\'t own up to it, what good does it do to continue. Disengaging can be hard, however. Pride rears it\'s ugly head in the anonymity of forum-land even easier than it does in person. People say things in forums that they would never, ever say in person. I say that\'s a check point we could all follow. Would I say this to their face using these words, etc...?

Easy for you to do when you know what TONE looks like in English.

I had the highest scores in my English classes in college but I quickly found out that my language skills are deficient in trying to figure out what my born-and-bred-American husband means when he says, \"pretty good\". And by the way, in case you have a completely different usage of \"pretty good\" (which does not surprise me), my husband has a jillion meanings for pretty good depending on TONE which until today, I still haven\'t figured out... Sometimes he says it to mean, \"I\'m surprised that it\'s good\", sometimes \"It\'s better than good\", sometimes \"it\'s actually awful but I\'m too polite to tell you that\". I gave up trying to figure THAT out, so I just ask him straight out... \"Explain that comment to me.\"

So yeah... You can take offense and have shoulder chips all day long. It\'s not gonna change the fact that even though I can string pretty sentences together in English, a whole lot is lost in translation. So, I may not have a clue what in blazes is causing you such agitation... Or even that you\'re agitated in the first place.

But guess what. I notice that even among you American English speakers, your cultures are just different enough that what one finds alright another finds offensive.

So... Back to the main problem... What is civility in an Internet forum comprised of a mishmash of the most extreme of diversities? You may think you know the answer, but not everybody understands that.

[Lakumi]

Trying to understand what makes me mad may kill you, I get mad at errant fluffs that may or may not exist lol

[The Folk Prophet]

Easy for you to do when you know what TONE looks like in English.

I had the highest scores in my English classes in college but I quickly found out that my language skills are deficient in trying to figure out what my born-and-bred-American husband means when he says, \"pretty good\". And by the way, in case you have a completely different usage of \"pretty good\" (which does not surprise me), my husband has a jillion meanings for pretty good depending on TONE which until today, I still haven\'t figured out... Sometimes he says it to mean, \"I\'m surprised that it\'s good\", sometimes \"It\'s better than good\", sometimes \"it\'s actually awful but I\'m too polite to tell you that\". I gave up trying to figure THAT out, so I just ask him straight out... \"Explain that comment to me.\"

So yeah... You can take offense and have shoulder chips all day long. It\'s not gonna change the fact that even though I can string pretty sentences together in English, a whole lot is lost in translation. So, I may not have a clue what in blazes is causing you such agitation... Or even that you\'re agitated in the first place.

But guess what. I notice that even among you American English speakers, your cultures are just different enough that what one finds alright another finds offensive.

So... Back to the main problem... What is civility in an Internet forum comprised of a mishmash of the most extreme of diversities? You may think you know the answer, but not everybody understands that.

 

If I thought I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking the question.

 

I would also contend that an exception to the rule (American English not the first language or the like) does not mean that there are no rules, and the fact that you might struggle with context of phrases like "pretty good" does not mean that everyone does, and despite that, there are very, very obvious moments of rudeness thrown out there. To be clear, I'm not talking about you...lest you think I'm trying to accuse. I am certain I am guilty of some of those moments myself. And the truth is, despite some misunderstandings that you and I have had, you have been significantly more civil than many.

 

If you don't understand what is and isn't a rude tone in English, I can understand that. Though you also said yourself that you quit trying, which no one's likely to succeed at civility without actually trying for it.

 

Speaking of tone...I'm sensing hostility in your replies, which I suppose I may be misreading per the above...in which case I apologize...but as it's causing me to feel some frustration, I'm disengaging.

[Dravin]

Speaking of tone...I'm sensing hostility in your replies, which I suppose I may be misreading per the above...in which case I apologize...but as it's causing me to feel some frustration, I'm disengaging.

 

If it's any consolation her reply comes across as defensive to me, so it's not just you.

[Guest]

WOOPS there it is!!!

Perfect demonstration of what I'm talking about in perfect display here! How about we analyze this one and see where I took the wrong turn? This isn't my first rodeo on failing to express something. I got banned last year for something I said that I still haven't figured out why...

Now, conditions in my end:

I have to use my mini iPad instead of my laptop for this forum because the site doesn't render properly on my screen resolution. My 100+wpm skills is useless on the iPad so it takes me a lot longer to put thought into paper which causes me to not have time to read and reread my posts before clicking send. When I do find mistakes and edit them the site starts doing the annoying slashes so I quit bothering with that too.

Ok... Here's some analysis starters:

If you don't understand what is and isn't a rude tone in English, I can understand that. Though you also said yourself that you quit trying, which no one's likely to succeed at civility without actually trying for it.

I reread my posts and I see how I was clear in saying that I gave up on trying to figure out civility on the internet. I never said I gave up being civil. Do you see it?

Civility is part of my character having grown up in a political family where my dad trained us to be civil or we lose elections. But I don't know what constitutes uncivility on LDS.net. I got banned last year for something I said. I had no idea what I was banned for.

 

Speaking of tone...I'm sensing hostility in your replies, which I suppose I may be misreading per the above...in which case I apologize...but as it's causing me to feel some frustration, I'm disengaging.

 

 

If it's any consolation her reply comes across as defensive to me, so it's not just you.

And here's the important part....

I'm not being defensive nor being hostile! And this is why I said I gave up trying to adjust my language to suit how you guys perceive my posts because it is impossible. And it frustrates me too! Imagine trying to talk to somebody in the best of your ability trying to figure out proper grammar and punctuation and trying to let your personality shine through with artistic wording and try your hardest to be as civil as you know how to be and then you get not just one person, but TWO people, assign a complete misunderstanding of what you're trying to express. It kills me! I literally feel my heart constrict! And yes, many many many many times I just want to give up American forums altogether because it really is very hard! You won't believe how hard it is to get yourself understood on here.

It is loads easier in person because I get an automatic allowance for my thick accent. When you hear an accented Asian talk English for example, Americans try to respond back in simple English sentences and direct literal meanings. And if it's a Hispanic, the Americans even try to speak broken Spanish back! And when the Asian/Hispanic says completely inappropriate things the Americans laugh and think it is funny instead of offensive. It is automatic allowance! The Asian/Hispanic doesn't have to become culturally American to be understood! There's no such thing here because even when people know you're Asian, it still doesn't matter because all you see is the words on the screen. Which is understandable especially for those who hasn't had much interaction with Asians. We are at the disadvantage of not knowing how to read behind the words because we are all anonymous. Personality becomes a hindrance instead of a welcome uniqueness.

Yes, this post is not about Church and Anatess. It never was! I was merely trying to explain on this thread that we are not all Americans here, And even with the Americans, you have different ways of expressing things which causes friction when you don't give people the assumption of good intentions. As I seem to be the only non-American that has the most cultural diversity from American vocal in this thread, I get to be the default "other side perspective" for this particular input to the reason for "Uncivil Discourse". There are many more reasons that were posted before I chimed in.

By the way, there has been a few Asians that came through here. They post once or twice then they don't post anymore. I can't help but wonder why.

[Dravin]

I'm not being defensive nor being hostile!

 

I'm not asserting that you are, just supporting The Folk Prophet in how the post comes across. I'm American and the tone of my posts tends to get misconstrued often enough, so I'm not stranger to such misunderstandings. Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for me is to just say, "That wasn't my intent.", if they continue to insist it was then you move on. 

 

A key thing to note is that The Folk Prophet did give you the benefit of the doubt. He stated how he was perceiving your post and then acknowledged he could be misunderstanding you.

[The Folk Prophet]

WOOPS there it is!!!

Perfect demonstration of what I'm talking about in perfect display here! How about we analyze this one and see where I took the wrong turn? This isn't my first rodeo on failing to express something. I got banned last year for something I said that I still haven't figured out why...

Now, conditions in my end:

I have to use my mini iPad instead of my laptop for this forum because the site doesn't render properly on my screen resolution. My 100+wpm skills is useless on the iPad so it takes me a lot longer to put thought into paper which causes me to not have time to read and reread my posts before clicking send. When I do find mistakes and edit them the site starts doing the annoying slashes so I quit bothering with that too.

Ok... Here's some analysis starters:

I reread my posts and I see how I was clear in saying that I gave up on trying to figure out civility on the internet. I never said I gave up being civil. Do you see it?

Civility is part of my character having grown up in a political family where my dad trained us to be civil or we lose elections. But I don't know what constitutes uncivility on LDS.net. I got banned last year for something I said. I had no idea what I was banned for.

 

 

 

And here's the important part....

I'm not being defensive nor being hostile! And this is why I said I gave up trying to adjust my language to suit how you guys perceive my posts because it is impossible. And it frustrates me too! Imagine trying to talk to somebody in the best of your ability trying to figure out proper grammar and punctuation and trying to let your personality shine through with artistic wording and try your hardest to be as civil as you know how to be and then you get not just one person, but TWO people, assign a complete misunderstanding of what you're trying to express. It kills me! I literally feel my heart constrict! And yes, many many many many times I just want to give up American forums altogether because it really is very hard! You won't believe how hard it is to get yourself understood on here.

It is loads easier in person because I get an automatic allowance for my thick accent. When you hear an accented Asian talk English for example, Americans try to respond back in simple English sentences and direct literal meanings. And if it's a Hispanic, the Americans even try to speak broken Spanish back! And when the Asian/Hispanic says completely inappropriate things the Americans laugh and think it is funny instead of offensive. It is automatic allowance! The Asian/Hispanic doesn't have to become culturally American to be understood! There's no such thing here because even when people know you're Asian, it still doesn't matter because all you see is the words on the screen. Which is understandable especially for those who hasn't had much interaction with Asians. We are at the disadvantage of not knowing how to read behind the words because we are all anonymous. Personality becomes a hindrance instead of a welcome uniqueness.

Yes, this post is not about Church and Anatess. It never was! I was merely trying to explain on this thread that we are not all Americans here, And even with the Americans, you have different ways of expressing things which causes friction when you don't give people the assumption of good intentions. As I seem to be the only non-American that has the most cultural diversity from American vocal in this thread, I get to be the default "other side perspective" for this particular input to the reason for "Uncivil Discourse". There are many more reasons that were posted before I chimed in.

By the way, there has been a few Asians that came through here. They post once or twice then they don't post anymore. I can't help but wonder why.

 

HI Anatess,

 

Let me apologize again. I mean it sincerely. I do understand what it is like to be misunderstood.

 

I cannot help but question the claim that you weren't defensive in your post at all though, even if it was only just a wee bit. Let me break it down from my perspective and why I read it that way. Perhaps in correcting my read of your post we can get to understand one another better and improve future communication.

 

There were three specific sentences/phrases that read as defensive.

 

"You can take offense and have shoulder chips all day long."

 

I read a presumption that you assume I (or others) have a chip on my shoulder. Even if I read this as not personal, it still reads as if you are presuming others have chips on their shoulders and that is the only reason for offense to be taken. It sounds defensive because it sounds like the blame for offense it being entirely pushed onto others.

 

"...what in blazes is causing you such agitation..."

 

Why the "in blazes" addition? It reads as aggravated. Am I misreading that? Is this something you've picked up in American English that you think injecting "in blazes" is acceptable, polite speech? Yes, I will admit, there is a time and place where "tone", as we talked about, would allow for this sort of phrasing, but even then, most of the time when I've really upset others its been in my use of casual and flippant phrasing. It strikes me (and I'm learning this slowly) that it is better to remain formal in speech so as to avoid problems like this.

 

"You may think you know the answer..."

 

Once more, it reads like you are assuming that I (or others like me) are arrogant and think we know everything. As if the offense taken is always the fault of the person taking the offense.

 

Now, I freely and candidly admit that I may be taking everything you said wrong. I'm not angry or frustrated after your explanation, and my posting this response is an honest attempt to further useful dialogue and understanding.

[Guest]

Yeah! We're getting somewhere!

Okay, everything I'm going to write below I'm going to try to be very literal. As in, straight from Bisaya in my brain to English in my fingers.... So try reading it very literally too. Let's see if this makes it better. The "tone" in this particular post is the same as two college students who barely know each other trying to help each other understand Nuclear Physics in the library.

HI Anatess,

 

Let me apologize again. I mean it sincerely. I do understand what it is like to be misunderstood.

Apology is confusing to me here because Apology, to me, indicates that you think you offended me... Which then follows that I must have told you that you offended me. Which then makes me think that I said something wrong in the post previous to this because there wasn't a time I was offended in this thread. But then I also start to wonder if you're apologizing for something else - something I didn't catch or didn't understand...

As you can see, it can be very difficult for me. So, what I usually do in this case is just accept the apology thinking that you intended it as a "civility" or to make sure we keep the peaceful "tone".

Make sense?

 

I cannot help but question the claim that you weren't defensive in your post at all though, even if it was only just a wee bit. Let me break it down from my perspective and why I read it that way. Perhaps in correcting my read of your post we can get to understand one another better and improve future communication.

My first two posts on this thread was completely devoid of defensiveness. The third post was a defensive one.

There were three specific sentences/phrases that read as defensive.

 

"You can take offense and have shoulder chips all day long."

 

I read a presumption that you assume I (or others) have a chip on my shoulder. Even if I read this as not personal, it still reads as if you are presuming others have chips on their shoulders and that is the only reason for offense to be taken. It sounds defensive because it sounds like the blame for offense it being entirely pushed onto others.

That phrasing ties my post back to your post. The words were directly taken from your post and is used in the same manner you used it in your post in the way I understood what you meant when you used it. I learned this in English class (which by the way is what you need to do when you write a resume or respond to an essay question or counter a discussion or debate). As I understand your post, you didn't say you had a chip on your shoulder, just that there are those who have chips on their shoulder. Those are the same chips in my post.

 

"...what in blazes is causing you such agitation..."

 

Why the "in blazes" addition? It reads as aggravated. Am I misreading that? Is this something you've picked up in American English that you think injecting "in blazes" is acceptable, polite speech? Yes, I will admit, there is a time and place where "tone", as we talked about, would allow for this sort of phrasing, but even then, most of the time when I've really upset others its been in my use of casual and flippant phrasing. It strikes me (and I'm learning this slowly) that it is better to remain formal in speech so as to avoid problems like this.

Most of my English slang comes from movies. I never had an English slang class. "In blazes" I hear used all the time to give more impact to the mood of the phrase. So, the mood of the phrase "what is causing you agitation" is not on the forefront - that mood which is not just plain confusion about what is causing you agitation but more of I-don't-want-to-be-confused-but-I-am type of confusion. In blazes magnifies that mood so it goes on the forefront. I'm fairly certain that's how "blazes" is used in America.

"You may think you know the answer..."

 

Once more, it reads like you are assuming that I (or others like me) are arrogant and think we know everything. As if the offense taken is always the fault of the person taking the offense.

 

Now, I freely and candidly admit that I may be taking everything you said wrong. I'm not angry or frustrated after your explanation, and my posting this response is an honest attempt to further useful dialogue and understanding.

That was written literally. I don't know how else I can say that. You MAY think you know the answer... That's exactly what it says... I don't know how that sentence gets assigned arrogance. And the word MAY definitely implies you may or you may not but in the case that you may, then the next sentence applies. There's nothing at all in there that says you know everything... because if that's what I meant, I would have said, "you think you know everything, but you don't"... Which is a completely different sentence altogether which means exactly what you think I said.

People who had to learn English from another language get tripped up with seemingly very simple words. A lot of times, it's just nuance... Like Eat and Consume are two words that have the same meaning with different nuances that are commonly lost in translation so until I married my husband, "Consume your food" was how I said it because Consume makes me feel like I have a broader vocabulary and I want you to know it.

[pam]

I have found there are some subjects that are just too sensitive for me and probably best if I avoid.

[The Folk Prophet]

Yeah! We're getting somewhere!

Okay, everything I'm going to write below I'm going to try to be very literal. As in, straight from Bisaya in my brain to English in my fingers.... So try reading it very literally too. Let's see if this makes it better. The "tone" in this particular post is the same as two college students who barely know each other trying to help each other understand Nuclear Physics in the library.

Apology is confusing to me here because Apology, to me, indicates that you think you offended me... Which then follows that I must have told you that you offended me. Which then makes me think that I said something wrong in the post previous to this because there wasn't a time I was offended in this thread. But then I also start to wonder if you're apologizing for something else - something I didn't catch or didn't understand...

As you can see, it can be very difficult for me. So, what I usually do in this case is just accept the apology thinking that you intended it as a "civility" or to make sure we keep the peaceful "tone".

Make sense?

My first two posts on this thread was completely devoid of defensiveness. The third post was a defensive one.

That phrasing ties my post back to your post. The words were directly taken from your post and is used in the same manner you used it in your post in the way I understood what you meant when you used it. I learned this in English class (which by the way is what you need to do when you write a resume or respond to an essay question or counter a discussion or debate). As I understand your post, you didn't say you had a chip on your shoulder, just that there are those who have chips on their shoulder. Those are the same chips in my post.

Most of my English slang comes from movies. I never had an English slang class. "In blazes" I hear used all the time to give more impact to the mood of the phrase. So, the mood of the phrase "what is causing you agitation" is not on the forefront - that mood which is not just plain confusion about what is causing you agitation but more of I-don't-want-to-be-confused-but-I-am type of confusion. In blazes magnifies that mood so it goes on the forefront. I'm fairly certain that's how "blazes" is used in America.

That was written literally. I don't know how else I can say that. You MAY think you know the answer... That's exactly what it says... I don't know how that sentence gets assigned arrogance. And the word MAY definitely implies you may or you may not but in the case that you may, then the next sentence applies. There's nothing at all in there that says you know everything... because if that's what I meant, I would have said, "you think you know everything, but you don't"... Which is a completely different sentence altogether which means exactly what you think I said.

People who had to learn English from another language get tripped up with seemingly very simple words. A lot of times, it's just nuance... Like Eat and Consume are two words that have the same meaning with different nuances that are commonly lost in translation so until I married my husband, "Consume your food" was how I said it because Consume makes me feel like I have a broader vocabulary and I want you to know it.

 

The apology was in response to this:

 

Imagine trying to talk to somebody in the best of your ability trying to figure out proper grammar and punctuation and trying to let your personality shine through with artistic wording and try your hardest to be as civil as you know how to be and then you get not just one person, but TWO people, assign a complete misunderstanding of what you're trying to express. It kills me! I literally feel my heart constrict! And yes, many many many many times I just want to give up American forums altogether because it really is very hard! You won't believe how hard it is to get yourself understood on here.

[Iggy]

Anatess: I have always been able to understand you - your 'tone' and probably the feeling within your words/phrases. I am American. Born to a norweigian man who was the first generation of his family born in the USA, and a woman whose Grandfather & GGrandpa immigrated here from England & Ireland. I only know one language and that one I boggle up enough as it is. Yet, pretty much every post you have written, I have understood and agreed with upon the first reading.

 

As to the OP - I rely heavily on the gift of discernment that our Father has blessed me with. When I read a thread and am instantly *Enraged* by it - I do NOT respond right away. I will read the responses or more accurately skim through them.

 

If I feel the prompting to reply, then I copy and paste the entire thread to my Word program, and pick apart what I am responding to. Often this process will take me days or even weeks, and seldom do I ever post when it is finished. It is out of my system. My responses would not have accomplished anything constructive. Doing the Cut-Paste-take-my-time-responding exercise has helped me tremendously. 

 

When I do respond to a thread - I edit heavily before I post - sometimes to the point of not posting. 

 

My husband has always counciled to *Give it (your response) ten coats of time.* - I find this to be good advice. When he was in the hospital, waiting for all the specialists to find out why his blood was not clotting, the woman who was the Hospital Chaplain added: *Put it on the altar, and give it ten coats of time*. So, before I post to a thread that inflames or enrages me - I put it On the altar - giving it ten coats of time.

[The Folk Prophet]

Anatess: I have always been able to understand you - your 'tone' and probably the feeling within your words/phrases. I am American. Born to a norweigian man who was the first generation of his family born in the USA, and a woman whose Grandfather & GGrandpa immigrated here from England & Ireland. I only know one language and that one I boggle up enough as it is. Yet, pretty much every post you have written, I have understood and agreed with upon the first reading.

 

As to the OP - I rely heavily on the gift of discernment that our Father has blessed me with. When I read a thread and am instantly *Enraged* by it - I do NOT respond right away. I will read the responses or more accurately skim through them.

 

If I feel the prompting to reply, then I copy and paste the entire thread to my Word program, and pick apart what I am responding to. Often this process will take me days or even weeks, and seldom do I ever post when it is finished. It is out of my system. My responses would not have accomplished anything constructive. Doing the Cut-Paste-take-my-time-responding exercise has helped me tremendously. 

 

When I do respond to a thread - I edit heavily before I post - sometimes to the point of not posting. 

 

My husband has always counciled to *Give it (your response) ten coats of time.* - I find this to be good advice. When he was in the hospital, waiting for all the specialists to find out why his blood was not clotting, the woman who was the Hospital Chaplain added: *Put it on the altar, and give it ten coats of time*. So, before I post to a thread that inflames or enrages me - I put it On the altar - giving it ten coats of time.

 

Great reply! I think the only part of it that I would not necessarily follow is the never posting a reply at all. Well...no...that's not true. If my motivation to reply was based on offense then that is entirely valid. Many times my motivation to reply is, however, discourse.  But.... The idea of letting it cool off and really thinking about it before replying is solid. Thanks.