What is the answer to a sexless Marriage

[Guest Anonymous45258]

I am going on 3 years. We have other stints that have lasted 1 and 2 years.  It is a circle of constant rejection.  We are active in the church have 3 wonderful children (Ages 2 - 7).  Whenever I try to initiate I am told I need to lose weight or I need to help out more around the house etc. ( I do help out a lot BTW and when I try to improve the things she mentions she finds something else wrong).  I admit we don't have date nights.  In general we struggle with the basic things (Prayer, Reading the scriptures, FHE etc.).  We also haven't been to the temple  in a long time (we both have current recommends). There has been no issue of infidelity or addiction.  I just don't know what to do.  It seems like my spouse has no desire to engage in this part of our relationship and I rarely even try anymore because of the constant rejection.  My spouse has become my roommate and doesn't even enjoy my company.  I will live the rest of my life like this if I have to since Divorce is never an option.  Both of our parents are divorced. Does anyone have any advice?    

[MrShorty]

I feel for you. Sexless marriages are difficult. I don't know that I have any good advice. A few resources I might suggest:

 

1) In a similar situation, the first book I picked up (kind of at random) was Dr. Harley's Mom's Needs/Dad's Needs (now published as His Needs/Her Needs for Parents). Dr. Harley clearly puts "sexual fulfillment" as an important need in marriage and discusses some of his advice for learning to meet this need. Dr. Harley is Christian, but not LDS, though he does not openly use his religion as part of the discussion. If your wife is open to a non-LDS, mostly secular but kind of Christian viewpoint, I would recommend Dr. Harley's books (if you check out the "marriage resources" sticky at the top of this forum, there is a link to his marriagebuilders website.).

 

2) If you or your wife is "suffering" from "Good-girl syndrome" with its accompanying negative views of sex in marriage, you might consider Laura Brotherson's (who is LDS) And They Were Not Ashamed.

 

3) If your wife will tolerate a purely secular approach, Michelle Wiener-Davis's "The Sex-Starved Marriage" is also a good read. You can read the first chapter of the book on her divorcebusting.com website.

 

4) Dr. Gottman's books, while not specific to dealing with sexual issues in marriage, has some good principles about communication in marriage and strategies for discussing these difficult issues.

 

4) A therapist may be necessary for working through some of these issues -- especially after the behavior patterns have been entrenched for years. I don't know if you are comfortable taking this issue to your Bishop (I personally would not) for a referral to a good counselor. If you are, consider asking him for a referral. If not, do your own search for a good pro-marriage therapist who will respect your religious point of view.

 

From there, my best advice might look something like this. As Dr. Chapman says, love is a choice. Choose to love your wife as best you can in ways that speak to her (see Dr. Chapman's 5 love languages or Dr. Harley's books). If that needs to include date nights or whatever, commit yourself to doing the things you can do to help her feel loved. Be sure that she knows the things she can do (including sex) to help you feel loved and engaged in the marriage. Accept that she will have to change herself (or God will have to help her see what she should change) from there.

 

It's a difficult cross to bear, and I wish you the best of luck in bearing it. I also believe it is one that does not have to be permanent. With the right help, I believe sexless marriages can be turned around.

[Windseeker]

Since you are looking I would highly recommend http://marriagebuilders.com/.

 

Now to address what you have written, your wife withholding sex for whatever reason is purely self-defeating. These issues might be addressed with counseling. I would recommend seeing a marriage counselor, perhaps one that specializes in sex therapy.

 

I'm divorced and remarried and I feel sometimes like I jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I have had the kids for the last 7 years but one is moving away to live with her mother. It has been hard. I can tell you from experience that not allowing divorce to be an option is the right way to go. I commend you for that.

 

What you can do for now is start courting her (this should have never stopped) and going on weekly dates. Don't think you have to go alone, invite close friends and family and try to show her a good time if it's become awkward just the two of you. Sometimes seeing someone in a different light (social situation) can bring back those feelings of attraction. Surprise her. Take her to the temple and start working on your health. Become the person you would find attractive (if that makes any sense).  If you look at it, your dropping the ball on a lot of things that can stand to be improved. It sucks to have to do it while your (very real) needs go unmet, but these are things you probably know you should be doing. “Arise from the dust, my sons, and be men”..am I right? Stop cowering and start taking control of your life and doing what you know is right. As you work on things try your hardest to not take it personally, exercise forgiveness, gratitude and charity.

 

All of us must learn at some point the only person we can change is ourselves. When we try to change another we fail.

[Kaelee]

Since she told you weight was an issue, are you working on that?  It seems like you just dismissed that.  I work hard to take care of myself because I think it is important not just for my health and self esteem but because it isn't fair to my husband to just let myself go.  My spouse's weight would be an issue for me.  Luckily, it isn't.

[Guest Anonymous45258]

Yes weight is a tough topic.  I do agree this is important.  I currently am 25 pounds over what I weighed when I was married.  But is this a good reason for my wife to withhold sex for so long?  I have always felt that there shouldn't be a quid pro quo when it comes to relationships.  I do try to improve on the things my wife points out even if I feel she is being unfair but it doesn't seem to change anything, she always finds something else. 

[mdfxdb]

Have you been to counseling? 

[Guest Anonymous45258]

We haven't been to counseling.  I have brought it up but my wife isn't willing to go.  She doesn't feel like there is anything wrong.  Plus if you asked her she would put the blame squarely on me.  Also this isn't something I could ever share with my bishop and I am not sure that he would even know what to say.

[prisonchaplain]

In my humble, non-LDS view, this is something that married people are meant to give to each other.  If I'm truly sick or deeply tired, then a delay is understandable.  However, if my mood is ho-hum, I'll do my best to bring pleasure to my spouse, for her benefit.  She'll do likewise for me.  My generic Christian understanding is that a sexless marriage is not biblical.  The Apostle Paul says it is not good to refrain--except during brief periods, for the purpose of spiritual devotion (fasting, etc.).  Bottom line:  This is no small matter.  It should be resolved, not accepted.  Whether that means just sitting down for a heart to heart, or seeking help, I would not just let this go on--not for weeks, and certainly not for eternity.

[notquiteperfect]

Aside from what has already been mentioned (start dating her!!!!, etc), I also suggest leaving notes around for her to find, bring her flowers for no reason, etc.  It wouldn't hurt to ask her why she's hesitant (pain, not fulfilled/satisfied, bored, feels unattractive, it's gross, etc).  If it's a low libido issue - a health issue could be behind that (look into Traditional Chinese Medicine or find a naturopath since western doctors don't deal with underlying causes).  Also, do you give her back massages without expecting anything further, etc?  Furthermore, don't ever do anything to break her trust - that can be a deal breaker for quite some time.

 

Brotherson (mentioned above) has a website as well: http://www.strengtheningmarriage.com

[notquiteperfect]

One other thing - is she depressed?  That can really mess with your mood.  Please also consider that at least she's not using sex to feel 'good enough' for you, etc.  That wouldn't be healthy either.

[MrShorty]

Yes weight is a tough topic.  I do agree this is important.  I currently am 25 pounds over what I weighed when I was married.  But is this a good reason for my wife to withhold sex for so long?  I have always felt that there shouldn't be a quid pro quo when it comes to relationships.  I do try to improve on the things my wife points out even if I feel she is being unfair but it doesn't seem to change anything, she always finds something else. 

 

In many ways, I think this is the hardest part of being in a sexless relationship. You try to be the best husband/wife you can be, and it still isn't enough. Sometimes you feel like she/he is saying "some day when you are a perfect husband/wife (and the stars and planets align just right and nobody cut me off in traffic and...), then I will condescend to have sex with you." I have no answer for it. I agree with you on just about every count -- you need to try to everything you can to be a good husband. Sometimes that means trying to lose that extra 25 pounds, sometimes that means putting extra effort in housework or childcare. I also agree that it is not right nor fair ("who said life was fair? where is that written?" if we want to add to our Princess Bride quote list) for her to wait until you have met a certain "threshold" before she responds to your requests for increased engagement in sex.

 

Somewhere along my journey, and as much as I hate to compare us "sexual pursuers" to dumb animals, but I have often reflected on something I saw in a documentary on training animals. This particular segment was about training pigeons or chickens to play ping pong. The trainer explained that, in the early stages of training, the trainer would reward the bird for "accidently" looking at the ball. He didn't wait for the bird to "do the right thing intentionally and perfectly." Any behavior that even looked like what the trainer wanted was rewarded. Like I say, I hate to compare us to dumb animals, but, if our wives/husbands really see sex as a "reward" for correct behavior, then maybe they ought to actually apply it as an animal trainer and "reward" us for doing anything. Of course, there are many who see a certain level of dysfunction in a "sex as reward/punishment/manipulation tool" like that, so that isn't a real answer, either.

 

I know, there really isn't any good advice here. Mostly just commiseration, which can be good and it can be bad, so I don't know if it helps or not. I think PC's post is spot on in one respect -- I don't think the "status quo" is sustainable. You (and me) need to keep pushing for change in the best ways we can.

[Quin]

. My spouse has become my roommate and doesn\'t even enjoy my company. I will live the rest of my life like this if I have to since Divorce is never an option. Both of our parents are divorced. Does anyone have any advice?

Ahem.

That. Right there.

Some people can have sex wih people they don\'t like or are angry with.

Most can\'t.

At least, not past a certain point.

Step ONE would be to get back to where you enjoy each other\'s company as friends.

Otherwise, she\'s just going to feel like a toilet. No one likes to feel used.

So... Platonic intimacy, then physical intimacy.

The other way around is putting the cart before the horse.

We haven\'t been to counseling. I have brought it up but my wife isn\'t willing to go. She doesn\'t feel like there is anything wrong. Plus if you asked her she would put the blame squarely on me. Also this isn\\\'t something I could ever share with my bishop and I am not sure that he would even know what to say.

Okay... That\'s actually good news.

That means that she\'s ticked at you (which dovetails right into that she doesn\'t want to spend even platonic, much less romantic time with you).

Which is something you can FIX.

So often in life we don\'t want things to be our fault.

But in cases like this, you get that it\'s AWESOME when it\'s our fault... Because we CAN FIX IT if it\'s our fault.

If it\'s no ones fault, but is depression, hormonal imbalance, trauma response, etc....

Then there\\\'s jack squat that can be done ... by us.

Instead it\'s a wait and hope game while they & their doctors work on the problem.

But if it\'s OUR fault? Yeehah! Awesome! A problem to solve! Work to be done! Stellar! We can DO something! Sweet!

LOL... So I think you just might have your attitude on backwards, here.

It\'s GREAT news when we\\\'re the ones who have the problem to sort.

Time to get crackin.

Q

[Quin]

, but, if our wives/husbands really see sex as a \\\"reward\\\" for correct behavior, then maybe they ought to actually apply it as an animal trainer and \\\"reward\\\" us for doing anything. Of course, there are many who see a certain level of dysfunction in a \\\"sex as reward/punishment/manipulation tool\\\" like that, so that isn\\\'t a real answer, either.

.

Ummmm.... Mr.S.... You do know that marriages where physical intimacy is used as a reward... There tends to be a LOT of physicality going on, yes? Not the inverse.

Sexless marriages with \\\"Thou must meet at least these minimum expectations before I\\\'ll even THINK of holding hands with you, much less anything more\\\" ... Aren\\\'t working on a reward scale.

There\\\'s either a) something seriously wrong or b ) something minor wrong that\\\'s been wrong for a loooooooooong time or c) pathology.

To use a banking analogy...

Majorly wrong = trying to withdraw 100k from the bank when there\\\'s only 10k in it. Not gonna happen.

Minority wrong for a long time = trying to withdraw $5 from the bank. Like you\\\'ve done thousands of times before. But this time, it causes an overdraft. So it\\\'s not going to happen. Nor the next time. Nor the time after that. Nor that.

In either case, not until there\\\'s a minimum deposit in the bank, that meets or exceeds what you want to take out, can you pull out $5 or $100,000. AND... If you don\\\'t KEEP adding money to the account, then it will just go right back to being at zero and checks getting rejected left and right.

Take my friends Matt & Sue.

Sue has been going insane for months with rejection.

During a girls night out we finally found out that Matt hasn\\\'t had a day off, much less a guys night out, for over a year.

Girl! The man is stressed to the limit! Get him some time to sleep,,and unwind, and relax for a bit.

So she did.

She took over some of \\\"his\\\" responsibilities, and took the kids to her parents for a long weekend, scheduled a guys fishing trip for him, etc.

after the man slept for almost 2 solid days, then went and played with his friends for a few days, and had a whole week of decreased responsibility... All was right in Sue\\\'s world again.

Until a month later she\\\'s back at girls night complaining that Mat is \\\"back to his old ways\\\".

Well... Did you keep giving him a break, or did you go back to your old schedule?

Duh. Old schedule. Which had run him ragged before.

Girl. What did you expect to change? The weekend of extra sleep & friend time was a BAND-AID.

So she got ticked. At how much she ALREADY does, and why can\\\'t he blah blah blah.

Girl. He CAN. He clearly can, because he has.

But it means he\\\'s too tired to do this other thing you want him to be doing.

It\\\'s not about making things fair on paper.

It\\\'s about making things WORK.

You want him to be doing this other thing, you\\\'re going to need to change how you do things.

It made me crave alcohol for the first time in years when her response was that if SHE did all the other stuff, then SHE was too tired for \\\"this other thing\\\". Face. Palm. Seriously. I love Sue to bits. But she drives me nuts.

Anyhow... Point being... Was that\\\'s Matt\\\'s \\\"bank\\\" was overdrawn.

Had been for a long time.

Sue thought that one measly little deposit should make them totally flush again.

Nope. That just pulled you out of the red, sweetheart.

It would take a looooooong time for reserves to be in the black and staying there.

They eventually went to counseling, sorted out \\\"lists\\\" they could live (happily) with.

Sues problem was that she only had ONE problem (no nookie). Matts problems, though, could only be solved by \\\"giving\\\" some of them to Sue. Which solved Sues original problem, but gave her a few others. We didn\\\'t know if they\\\'d make it (Sue eventually decided it was worth the added problems to take care of the first problem. I love that girl, but she is wicked selfish.)

My friends Aaron & Sarah had the opposite same problem.

They sorted their issues out by trading lives.

She went to work, and he stayed home with the kids.

It was meant to be their last stab pre-divorce, and honestly, it was done with a lot of venom on both sides.

But it worked out BRILLIANTLY.

He became SuperDad and totally found his niche being a SAHD, even added in homeschooling (had been in white-collar $$$$ job)

She went to work as a paralegal & to law school (she\\\'d been a part time cashier / mostly SAHM).

There were broke for about 5 years (but crazy happy for the first time in ages)

Now, they make more than they ever did... And are still crazy happy.

Both of my friends had the same problem (using the bank analogy, both were overdrawn... Not surprisingly, each \\\"Bank Closed\\\" person was the one who was the primary parent of young children. Although it happens at all stages of love, primary parent of young kids = waving red flag for problems), and both couples sorted them out in radically different ways. To the same end.

Each might have LOOKED like the whole \"reward\" thing... Because every time either Matt or Sarah got a little extra sleep,,alone time, etc... Physical intimacy resumed. For a bit. But then it stopped. Because what they NEEDED was a real,change in their lives. It wasn\'t that they didn\'t love their spouse... It was that they were exhausted. Sue & Aaron only had one problem (lack of physical intimacy) but their spouses had a LOT of problems. Until they sorted out their spouses problems (plural) their own problem (singular) couldn\'t be solved.

Q

[Dravin]

Aside from what has already been mentioned (start dating her!!!!, etc), I also suggest leaving notes around for her to find, bring her flowers for no reason, etc.  

 

Better yet, if you know her Love Language then target that channel. The above suggestions are good if she's keyed into words of affirmation or gifts, less so if it's acts of service, quality time, or physical touch that she's keyed into.

[notquiteperfect]

Agreed - but it's still good to do those things even if they're not at the top of the list.  Gifts is my lowest but I still appreciate flowers.

[The Folk Prophet]

I wouldn't even approach the issues of the marriage from a sex-filled or sexless point of view. The issues of the marriage seem much deeper than that. A sexual relationship will not fix the marriage. Fixing the marriage will generate the sexual relationship.

 

Where would I start? Fix this first:

 

 In general we struggle with the basic things (Prayer, Reading the scriptures, FHE etc.).  We also haven't been to the temple  in a long time (we both have current recommends).   

 

Then work on this:

 

I admit we don't have date nights.

[Guest Anonymous45258]

These are all good suggestions.  In terms of doing things for her my wife responds more to service than notes. flowers, or candy.  She has never been one for cuddling or back massages etc.  I can see there are several things that I can work on from my end.

 

1. I need to become more of a spiritual leader in the home (Reading, Praying, FHE etc.)

 

2. I need to lose weight.  -  Attractiveness is important to her and with an additional 25 pounds I am not as attractive.  BTW it is really hard to lose weight.  I have spent the last couple months going to the GYM and working out and I have lost 10 lbs.

 

3. I need to make more deposits in the "Bank" - Even though I feel like I contribute plenty plus I provide for the family.  My wife always has said to me that "you get to go to work all day and don't have to deal with the kids".  I'll tell her work isn't all fun and games. 

Additionally she has said she thinks I am selfish and only think of myself and I need to do more around the house. I try to always put my clothes in the hamper, take the trash out everyday, make the kids breakfast, Empty the dishwasher, Mop the floors once a week, & Clean the toilets once a week.  I admit I do miss some of these occasionally but I am trying to be more consistent.

   

4. I need to start courting her again.  (This is hard I don't know were to begin.  Date night doesn't seem like enough plus it is hard to get sitters ever week. My wife would be bothered at the amount of money we would spend to do it.) 

 

 

This is a tough list.  Any suggestions on the best way to get started on these items? 

 

Is there anyone in the forum who has dealt with this and successfully over some it?

 

Please give some feedback on this list and any additional ideas.

[The Folk Prophet]

2. I need to lose weight.  -  Attractiveness is important to her and with an additional 25 pounds I am not as attractive.  BTW it is really hard to lose weight.  I have spent the last couple months going to the GYM and working out and I have lost 10 lbs.

 

Bodies are built in the kitchen, or so the saying goes. You cannot exercise away a bad diet. Plain and simple.

 

That being said, 10 lbs in a couple of months is very good. Anything more than 2 lbs a week is unhealthy. Consistency is the key. Keep at it. Fix dietary issues. You'll get there and more.

 

I do want to re-iterate though. Not wanting sex with you because of 25 lbs... I don't think so. There are deeper issues involved here. I'm not saying don't bother getting in shape. Do. It's good for you and respectful of your spouse.

[Quin]

These are all good suggestions.  In terms of doing things for her my wife responds more to service than notes. flowers, or candy.  She has never been one for cuddling or back massages etc.  I can see there are several things that I can work on from my end.

 

1. I need to become more of a spiritual leader in the home (Reading, Praying, FHE etc.)

 

2. I need to lose weight.  -  Attractiveness is important to her and with an additional 25 pounds I am not as attractive.  BTW it is really hard to lose weight.  I have spent the last couple months going to the GYM and working out and I have lost 10 lbs.

 

3. I need to make more deposits in the "Bank" - Even though I feel like I contribute plenty plus I provide for the family.  My wife always has said to me that "you get to go to work all day and don't have to deal with the kids".  I'll tell her work isn't all fun and games. 

Additionally she has said she thinks I am selfish and only think of myself and I need to do more around the house. I try to always put my clothes in the hamper, take the trash out everyday, make the kids breakfast, Empty the dishwasher, Mop the floors once a week, & Clean the toilets once a week.  I admit I do miss some of these occasionally but I am trying to be more consistent.

   

4. I need to start courting her again.  (This is hard I don't know were to begin.  Date night doesn't seem like enough plus it is hard to get sitters ever week. My wife would be bothered at the amount of money we would spend to do it.) 

 

 

This is a tough list.  Any suggestions on the best way to get started on these items? 

 

Is there anyone in the forum who has dealt with this and successfully over some it?

 

Please give some feedback on this list and any additional ideas.

Some thoughts:

- Any start is better than no start. "It" may not seem like enough (ANYTHING), but anything is better than nothing.

- Assume your wife is smart. She KNOWS work isn't fun & games. It's an easy trap to fall into... The "who's got it worse/ justifying" game. Don't. Just don't. It will only end badly. So when she says that you get a break from the kids because you get to go to work, instead of being defensive, try taking that as a 1) True/False statement. Yep. True. & 2) Read in between the lines. As parents you BOTH work 14-16 hour a day jobs. But she works 1 14+ hour a day job! and you work 2. BOTH are hard for different reasons. You can fall into the trap of trying to prove who has it harder (again, don't), or take it to mean that your wife is burning out,,and is asking for a change. She's just doing it badly. Consider this: In my area, a full time nanny makes between $2500 & $4,000 a month. For 9 hour days. she does the SAME job as a SAHM. But she is only "on" for 9 hours a day, has 2 days off a week, & can call in sick. Most SAHPs go a little crazy UNTIL THE LAST KID IS IN SCHOOL... Because they don't have even these BASIC work standards. Once the kids are all in school, their "work day" shrinks to apx 9-12hours. When they're sick,they can get the kids to school & sleep (not exactly a "real" sick day.... But have you ever not called in sick to work for 5+ years? It's horrible. To which end... If you want to make a SAHPs work-life more humane

- When SHE's sick... Call in sick to work (FMLA guarantees you the right)... And take care of the kids so that she can sleep & recover

- Of you get 2 days off of work each week, try splitting your weekend so SHE gets equal time off. Since Sundays are a family day... Try every other weekend. She gets 1 Saturday to sleep until noon, go out with friends, read a book at the park -whatever- ... While you mind he kids, cool, clean, etc. Next Saturday, you take the day and sleep till you wake up, meet the boys, etc.

- Ever "worked through lunch" & all your breaks? It's exhausting! Same with kids. Yes, you eat, but as human beings we need time to turn our brains off. Even if just for a few minutes. There is a reason SAHPs CRY when their kids give up naps. To which end... If your wife is working 9 hours without a lunch break... Try giving her an hour off (or even half an hour off) when you get home.

- Make sure she knows the huge monetary influx she has brought to your family by being a SAHM. Whatever daycare would cost, plus all the time off work you'd have to take whenever the kids couldn't go to daycare is LITERALLY a thousand saved = a thousand earned.

>>>> what his is doing is NOT saying that you aren't working, and then coming home and working. What it DOES do is give her the same kind of standards that YOU have at work.. It splits her day into 2 parts, (almost) the same way yours is. A lunch break, time off when sick, at least 2 days off a month. These are very small changes,,but they mean the WORLD. There is a reason why not providing your employees these things is illegal. But if you want your wife to have them, it does mean maki some small changes.

- If you're spending LESS than 2 hours a day cleaning... Sorry, Charlie. No griping. The average SAHP spends a minimum of 2 hours a day being a maid. Not just in the chores everyone has to do by living (as a single person in an apt.) but the added volume of cleaning necessary to do when you're cleaning up after 2-10 other people. And when it's cleaning up after kids? Oy veh. You can vacuum every day. There's still a mess on the floor every day.

[notquiteperfect]

These are all good suggestions.  In terms of doing things for her my wife responds more to service than notes. flowers, or candy.  She has never been one for cuddling or back massages etc.  I can see there are several things that I can work on from my end.

 

For the record - I usually post with the wider audience in mind so take what you need and leave the rest.

 

2. I need to lose weight.  -  Attractiveness is important to her and with an additional 25 pounds I am not as attractive.  BTW it is really hard to lose weight.  I have spent the last couple months going to the GYM and working out and I have lost 10 lbs.

 

It's hard if you tell yourself it's hard.  TFP is right - what you eat is most of the problem/solution.  Eat only real food (God-made = water, nuts, veges, some fruit, some meat) and stay away from sugar, dairy and breads/pasta/cereal. Basically, if it doesn't grow, it's not food.  See if your library has "The Gabriel Method" by John Gabriel (one of many good books on this).

 

3. I need to make more deposits in the "Bank" - Even though I feel like I contribute plenty plus I provide for the family.  My wife always has said to me that "you get to go to work all day and don't have to deal with the kids".  I'll tell her work isn't all fun and games. 

Additionally she has said she thinks I am selfish and only think of myself and I need to do more around the house. I try to always put my clothes in the hamper, take the trash out everyday, make the kids breakfast, Empty the dishwasher, Mop the floors once a week, & Clean the toilets once a week.  I admit I do miss some of these occasionally but I am trying to be more consistent.

 

Agree with Q on all of it but regarding chores - what you're doing is only a starting point!  Start making beds, doing laundry, vacuuming, dusting, cooking dinner, etc.  Take care of any honey-do tasks that are on the list (fix things around the house...).

 

4. I need to start courting her again.  (This is hard I don't know were to begin.  Date night doesn't seem like enough plus it is hard to get sitters ever week. My wife would be bothered at the amount of money we would spend to do it.) 

 

Date night doesn't have to be expensive.  Trade sitting.  There's a group of 4 families in my ward that rotate.  One couple watches the kids while the other 3 go out (together or individually) so there's never a cost for childcare.  As far as dates, go to the bookstore (quiet, open late, don't have to buy), take a picnic (you pack!) and go to the park then take a walk around or just watch the clouds/stars, go wander around a high-end furniture store (one of my favs), go on a shopping spree to the dollar store, the temple is quiet, free and inspiring, check for community events (you'd be surprised at how many free/cheap things there are going on), go on a hike, do a 'town tour' and stop to read all the historic markers...

 

This is a tough list.  Any suggestions on the best way to get started on these items? 

 

Again - it's tough if you tell yourself it's tough.  Make a plan and stick with it. 

[The Folk Prophet]

It's hard if you tell yourself it's hard.  TFP is right - what you eat is most of the problem/solution.  Eat only real food (God-made = water, nuts, veges, some fruit, some meat) and stay away from sugar, dairy and breads/pasta/cereal. Basically, if it doesn't grow, it's not food.  See if your library has "The Gabriel Method" by John Gabriel (one of many good books on this).

 

Respectfully, this is opinion and only one approach to health, and certainly NOT the only approach to weight loss. I very much disagree that you should stay away from dairy and bread -- though it is one view that some follow. If you are lactose intolerant or gluten sensative, sure... Some cereals are healthy, and whole-wheat pasta is perfectly fine. The bottom line is that a person can maintain a whole lot of fat eating "real" food.

 

There are lots of different usable plans for eating right, but when it comes to weight loss, the bottom line is calorie control.

[Quin]

Respectfully, this is opinion and only one approach to health, and certainly NOT the only approach to weight loss. I very much disagree that you should stay away from dairy and bread -- though it is one view that some follow. If you are lactose intolerant or gluten sensative, sure... Some cereals are healthy, and whole-wheat pasta is perfectly fine. The bottom line is that a person can maintain a whole lot of fat eating "real" food.

There are lots of different usable plans for eating right, but when it comes to weight loss, the bottom line is calorie control.

Also meant respectfully, the first half of what you say completely disagrees with the 2nd half.

There ARE lots and lots of different usable & effective plans for both eating right & weight loss.

Not just calorie control.

That's just one method.

(Edited, tmi)

Q

[notquiteperfect]

Respectfully, this is opinion and only one approach to health, and certainly NOT the only approach to weight loss. I very much disagree that you should stay away from dairy and bread -- though it is one view that some follow. If you are lactose intolerant or gluten sensative, sure... Some cereals are healthy, and whole-wheat pasta is perfectly fine. The bottom line is that a person can maintain a whole lot of fat eating "real" food.

 

There are lots of different usable plans for eating right, but when it comes to weight loss, the bottom line is calorie control.

It's not about calories it's about nutrition.  If a person is not getting the nutrients they need, the body will be in starvation mode and hang on to the weight.  Dead food (doesn't expire for a good while) does not have any nutrients.  Real food (goes bad within days) does.

Also, most wheat (and corn) is gmo's.  Dairy is major allergen and is laden with hormones.  It's also pasteurized which kills the good stuff so only sugar is left.  Furthermore, I'm speaking from experience (stopped eating those things and the weight fell off quickly with no effort).  I've also read a number of books and listened to a lot of classes on health so I do know something about this.  I still stand by my earlier post.

[The Folk Prophet]

Also meant respectfully, the first half of what you say completely disagrees with the 2nd half.

There ARE lots and lots of different usable & effective plans for both eating right & weight loss.

Not just calorie control.

That's just one method.

(Edited, tmi)

Q

 

There is are different ways to eat healthy. Weight loss (which is not always healthy) is about calorie control. There is no contradiction.

[The Folk Prophet]

It's not about calories it's about nutrition.  If a person is not getting the nutrients they need, the body will be in starvation mode and hang on to the weight.  Dead food (doesn't expire for a good while) does not have any nutrients.  Real food (goes bad within days) does.

Also, most wheat (and corn) is gmo's.  Dairy is major allergen and is laden with hormones.  It's also pasteurized which kills the good stuff so only sugar is left.  Furthermore, I'm speaking from experience (stopped eating those things and the weight fell off quickly with no effort).  I've also read a number of books and listened to a lot of classes on health so I do know something about this.  I still stand by my earlier post.

 

I'm not saying your suggestion wouldn't work. Just saying it's not the only means. I also speak from experience, if you want to go there. But this is a thread jack. So I won't respond again.