Not sure if I can join LDS


echosparks
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I'm 100% new to all of this and have never practiced any religion & never been to church. I've been reading up on the teachings of LDS which I think I agree with-I don't know how I could not with not ever being taught about other (any) religions. But in what I've read so far does the church not accept transgendered people or allow them to marry in the temple? I've also read that they can't get a temple recommend or be baptized?

I'm in my 20s. I was born a female, haven't had any surgeries but have been on testosterone and lived full-time as a male for a little over 4 years now. Unless I told someone that I was still biologically a girl they wouldn't know. I liked boys growing up and still do. I was wondering how the church would see this? Since I am still female by what my birth certificate says by law I could still get married to a male. Would the church see it that way too or as a homosexual relationship? Also would I be put in priesthood or relief society? I don't want to join just to get kicked out.

Also how do tithing work?

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A great talk was given that had an answer to all of your questions:

Ask the missionaries.

Who me? Well I will tell you know the church isn't getting any of my dolls, they are like pets or diminuative, resin off spring :lol:

That and... how do you give 10% of a doll?

How would they know if they were given a 50 dollar pair of boots vs a 10 dollar one?

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You can be baptized even if you are transgendered because the ordinance is gender non-specific. You will likely need to have interviews with higher ups in the church however, since your situation is unique. You will likely not be allowed temple participation because it is gender specific and since your gender (in this life) is ambiguous, the church cannot determine your spiritual gender, although a revealed answer by the First Presidency could determine that. It's simply a matter of ensuring the ordinances are performed correctly, and it may be that God reveals your spiritual gender, or He may not. That's why things are decided by the First Presidency. Bishops are simply unequipped for such decisions, as are missionaries.

But, meet with the missionaries, and let them know the situation. They will be able to teach you, and then make sure the proper steps are taken to prepare you for baptism.

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This won't be super helpful, at least not yet, since you're pre-op... But it's a good place to start:

Mormons and Gays

You wouldn't be kicked out for being transgender.

In fact, there are a small handful of intermittent posters on this site who are both trans & full members.

It does get sticky, since we do divide things by sex/gender (& conflate them) with the priesthood & relief society.

We don't have a lot of Trans people, but we do have 'em, although in my observation (aka limited) while we tend to have a lot more GLB people than many churches (since we don't view same sex attraction as a sin), we tend to have fewer trans people than more liberal churches.

Which is definitely a thing to know. To pull a totally made up number out of my ear... I'd say about 10-20% of the LDS Church are either liberal or midliners. The vast majority are very conservative. In general, one tends to find more liberal wards in college areas, and in very liberal states/cities... And more conservative wards across the Midwest & red states.

Something to know, too, is that there are several...stages? Progressions? Someone help me out with a better word. My brain is made of marshmallow fluff tonight... Of membership.

Not everyone in the church (by a long shot!) holds/has gone through all stages.

A Temple Recommend is one of those stages, that simply not everyone always has (even if they've had one in the past, and will again in the future).

A TR takes at least a year post baptism to work towards, and often longer. So no one new has one. Similarly many many people lose their TR, or don't renew it for some time when it expires. So it's not like NOT holding one is like wearing a big ole scarlet A, or something that would make you feel wildly out of place.

We WORSHIP in chapel/church/meeting halls.

We go to Temple to make more promises, on top of the ones we covenant outside of the Temple.

I would strongly second talking with the missionaries. :D

As to tithing... Even long term members (especially long term members?) debate tithing quite a bit in the details of it. To know up front; it's 10% of your increase. Which, on the surface would mean $70. HOWEVER, there are a lot of caveats. You don't pay tithing on loans, for example. So students living off of financial aid often pay $0 in tithing for 4-12 years while they're in school. You don't pay tithing on debt. Generally one doesn't pay tithing on gifts, which includes gifts of money, food, etc. (although many do, remember the only hard & fast rule everyone agrees on is 10%, 10% of "what" is where we start to diverge. Net, gross, gifts, aid that's not loan based -like scholarships, or social security-, and many others are just some of the things we debate about). One of my favorite quotes of all time is actually from the link I posted above "Reasonable people can and do differ." I love this as it applies to sooooo many things. Tithing being one of them. Most people are doing the best they can. How they go about doing their best often differs from someone else.

Q

Edited by Quin
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You have to do really, really bad things do be denied membership, and I mean really bad things. Your situation is unique and will likely require some unique steps, but if you have a testimony of the restoration of the Gospel, a testimony of Jesus Christ, and have repented you should be accepted with open arms.

Same gender marriage or the appearance of it is not in harmony with the teachings of God. Once again, your circumstance is unique and will probably require some in depth personal discussions with leadership.

The tithing part is easy. $700-800 per month is $70-80 per month in tithing. 10% of your increase is tithing.

As for getting kicked out of the church- People don't get kicked out of church. They kick themselves out of church by violating sacred covenants, being unrepentant, and/or being apostate.

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Who me? Well I will tell you know the church isn't getting any of my dolls, they are like pets or diminuative, resin off spring :lol:

That and... how do you give 10% of a doll?

How would they know if they were given a 50 dollar pair of boots vs a 10 dollar one?

I believe he was responding to the OP.

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What do you have to do to be denied membership?

The intentional shedding of innocent blood (murder), but even then it's not an absolute. It would make becoming a member very difficult.

...and doll collecting, but collecting action figures is okay.

Edited by Str8Shooter
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There's really a few issues at work here.

Being transgendered will likely automatically require you to get an interview with the mission president before being baptized. Getting the interview itself won't be that hard. The bigger issue is likely to be whether or not you intend to get a sex-change operation. From what I can tell from looking over the Handbook of Instruction, if you have not had the operation but plan to, then you cannot be baptized. If you get baptized after having had the operation, then you will be barred from either receiving the priesthood or getting a temple recommend. In can't find any official restrictions for pre-op transgendered people who aren't planning on getting the surgery, though it is possible you may be asked to stop taking hormones and live as a woman again, and you would almost certainly be viewed as a woman by the church.

Then there are simple social issues. As was previously mentioned, the members of the church tend to be fairly conservative. As such, I can't necessarily guarantee that all the members will respond to your unique situation with Christ-like charity. I'm not sure how public you are with your transgender status, but it's likely to come up given the gender specific nature of some of the meetings. If you look like a man, but always attend the relief society meetings, people are likely to get suspicious. If you never attend either the priesthood or relief society meetings, you're likely to have some people approach you on that topic as well, which could get awkward given your situation.

All this being said, while there are certainly some obstacles you would have to face, I don't personally think those challenges are the biggest issue. Really, what it boils down to is this: Do you think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the one true church instituted by Christ. If so, then you absolutely should pursue membership and accept the hardships and sacrifices you'll be asked to make as the (bargain) price for salvation. Even unbaptized, you can still participate to a fairly large extent with the church. If you don't believe it to be Christ's one true church, then I humbly recommend going back to the drawing board and try to determine who is.

As a side not on tithing, you'll still likely be asked to give ten percent. That's assuming you get baptized and confirmed. If I recall correctly, they only accept tithing from members, and you aren't officially a member until you receive those ordinances. While that obviously could constitute a financial burden, one thing the LDS church is pretty good about is providing welfare services, so they are likely to work with you.

I should throw in the disclaimer that I've been out of Mormonism for a few years, so some of my information may be a bit out of date. If anybody has some updated information from what I've provided, feel free to chime in.

Good luck in figuring all this out. You have my prayers!

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The intentional shedding of innocent blood (murder), but even then it's not an absolute. It would make becoming a member very difficult.

...and doll collecting, but collecting action figures is okay.

I knew that missionary was horrifed to the pit of his very soul when he saw Ivy in her coffin

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You can be baptized even if you are transgendered because the ordinance is gender non-specific. You will likely need to have interviews with higher ups in the church however, since your situation is unique. You will likely not be allowed temple participation because it is gender specific and since your gender (in this life) is ambiguous, the church cannot determine your spiritual gender, although a revealed answer by the First Presidency could determine that. It's simply a matter of ensuring the ordinances are performed correctly, and it may be that God reveals your spiritual gender, or He may not. That's why things are decided by the First Presidency. Bishops are simply unequipped for such decisions, as are missionaries.

But, meet with the missionaries, and let them know the situation. They will be able to teach you, and then make sure the proper steps are taken to prepare you for baptism.

Just need to say this a very well thought out answer. Fantastic.

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Just because you haven't traced your family history doesn't mean your extended family hasn't.

Oh no we have, gone back to about the 1700s-then it gets confusing. They were on a big kick about that a few years back, and as far as we can tell no Mormons, that kind of thing would have either shown up, or would be known to the family. Something like that don't just fade away.

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  • 1 month later...

First, EVERYONE is welcome at church... not just members or investigators!   :)

 

 

My bishop said he'd have to talk to the mission president but as of right now I can't get baptised. If the mission president would say I can or can't (either way actually) 

 

The bishop is probably just 'advising' you about the process.  It's actually not up to him, but the local mission.  You actually don't have a decision yet... until you meet with a member of the mission presidency.

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-prepare-people-for-baptism-and-confirmation?lang=eng

 

 

 

Who conducts the interview for baptism?

Normally the district leader interviews baptismal candidates taught by missionaries in his district, including candidates taught by his zone leaders. The zone leader interviews candidates taught by the district leader. The mission president or someone he assigns must interview people involved in serious sins. District or zone leaders do not interview baptismal candidates outside their own district or zone unless the mission president assigns them to do so.

Baptismal Interview Questions
  1. 1. 

    Do you believe that God is our Eternal Father? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world?

  2. 2. 

    Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith? Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?

  3. 3. 

    What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past transgressions?

  4. 4. 

    Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?

  5. 5. 

    You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?

    1. a. 

      The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.

    2. b. 

      The law of tithing.

    3. c. 

      The Word of Wisdom.

    4. d. 

      The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.

  6. 6. 

    When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep His commandments throughout your life. Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?

 

It's question #4 that would require a member of the mission presidency to conduct a baptismal interview.

 

Please don't assume that you cannot be baptized, or that there isn't a place for you in the Lord's Church.

 

Your situation is unique... but based on similar posts, it's becoming more common.  Please don't judge the leaders too harshly.  They're just trying to do their best in a very gender-oriented environment.  I think their intentions to do what's right and to help you feel welcome are there.  I'm sure it's disappointing so far, but be patient and have faith.  

 

Please don't assume anything until you meet with someone in the mission presidency.  Only they can tell you what the next steps will be.  :)

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