What is this person called?

[Starya]

One of my institute teachers told me one of the stories of this guy that goes around fixing and finding out things like mistakes that happen through the church and helps fix them.

He told us this story where this certain guy went to this ward one day and found that the women were passing the sacrament. He had gotten a call or something like that from someone saying something weird was happening in this ward and he should check it out. The bishop let them do it because there wasn't enough men or something like that. He had to explain why that wasn't okay and had to fix it or help fix it. We all got a real kick out of the story. I realized after that that there are a lot of interesting things happening throught the church that we don't hear about. I kind of figured that if I knew who it is that takes care of things like this I could find other funny and interesting stories

[Lakumi]

Well what does a ward do if there is very few men there?

What happened if there was 0 ?

[pam]

Well what does a ward do if there is very few men there?

What happened if there was 0 ?

 

There wouldn't be a ward. To be declared a ward instead of a branch there has to be a certain number of people.  I highly doubt that a ward would be established if there were 0 men in it. Besides you can't have a ward without Priesthood leadership.

[Dravin]

Well what does a ward do if there is very few men there?

What happened if there was 0 ?

 

The Church pays attention to available (aka active) priesthood holders when creating branches or wards (there are minimum numbers involved), or when upgrading/downgrading from one to the other. If there were 0 men in the unit then the unit would be disbanded.

 

As far as a ward where there was some temporary situation in which there were very few men they'd either:

 

1) Cancel Church that Sunday.

2) While the usual passing route (for a moderately sized ward) has two or three priesthood holders blessing the sacrament and a half-dozen or more passing, nothing prevents say three priesthood holders blessing and then passing the sacrament. The Bishop himself could help pass (or bless). This might mean passing it takes longer, but it could be done.

 

If we're talking about a ward where there were temporarily no priesthood holders able to make it you go to #1 of the above.

[pam]

As far as the story in the OP, I'm highly suspect that this really happened.

[Dravin]

As far as the story in the OP, I'm highly suspect that this really happened.

 

Yep, it has the earmarks of an urban legend. 

[rayhale]

There has been a Sunday where because of sickness, or being out of town, none of the Bishopric was at Sacrament meeting, the Stake President, Elder's President, and High Priest group leader were on the stand, one interesting thing was the fact that one of the speakers didn't show up, they had to improvise the meeting.

 

As to the question of what would happen if no worthy Priesthood holders show up to a Sacrament meeting? I don't know, they might have a worship service, without the Sacrament, or the meeting could just get canceled.

[Lakumi]

Yeah that's what I meant, if none showed up due to some... I donno male only sickness (some Star Trek disease or doll curse) I've never heard of anything like that happening and it seems weird to imagine. I've heard of wards not having a lot of men, but never having 0 at any time.

[NeuroTypical]

if none showed up due to some... I donno male only sickness (some Star Trek disease or doll curse)

This happens every year at my ward, around November.  It's called "hunting season".  A few years ago, we had more of our local priesthood leadership present in a ward building 210 miles away, than there was in our ward building.

 

(Yes indeed - the bishop, both counselors, and someone in the High Priests all went on a hunting trip, and attended church at the nearest ward where they were shootin'.)

 

As for cool stories - here's one about Brother Elza Richter.

 

Orson Scott Card: It's a matter of how, not where, we serve

[Lakumi]

No idea what a mile is lol

Perhaps in the future there will be Emergency Priesthood Holograms, or androids.

[Iggy]

I have heard the same story - or similar. It is about a newly formed Branch in a third world country. Once the missionaries left, and prior to a new set being assigned, the Branch President had the young women blessing and serving the sacrament. I can't remember why there were no priesthood holders. Possibly the converts were so recently baptized the men had not yet received the priesthood keys, and/or the men were out harvesting. 

 

The Branch President didn't understand the principles of the Gospel. From then on, seasoned priesthood holders were assigned to stay longer at newly formed branches in the third world countries to teach them the correct principles. 

 

There was two Sundays in a row, where many of the members - including the priesthood holders - who were out sick with the flu here at the Branch I go to. This was nearly 12 years ago. We had our Branch President, his clerk and the High Priest Quorum Leader. The rest of the males were two primary boys, and two men who had yet to receive the Aaronic Priesthood.

 

The Branch President and the Clerk blessed the Sacrament and then along with the Clerk, passed it. Those Sundays, were to me, the most Reverent. 

[pam]

I have heard the same story - or similar. It is about a newly formed Branch in a third world country. Once the missionaries left, and prior to a new set being assigned, the Branch President had the young women blessing and serving the sacrament. I can't remember why there were no priesthood holders. Possibly the converts were so recently baptized the men had not yet received the priesthood keys, and/or the men were out harvesting. 

 

The Branch President didn't understand the principles of the Gospel. From then on, seasoned priesthood holders were assigned to stay longer at newly formed branches in the third world countries to teach them the correct principles. 

 

There was two Sundays in a row, where many of the members - including the priesthood holders - who were out sick with the flu here at the Branch I go to. This was nearly 12 years ago. We had our Branch President, his clerk and the High Priest Quorum Leader. The rest of the males were two primary boys, and two men who had yet to receive the Aaronic Priesthood.

 

The Branch President and the Clerk blessed the Sacrament and then along with the Clerk, passed it. Those Sundays, were to me, the most Reverent. 

 

Well that story sounds much more feasible than a guy who is the "fix it" guy who goes around fixing wards.

[estradling75]

Well that story sounds much more feasible than a guy who is the "fix it" guy who goes around fixing wards.

 

 

Unless you consider the 'fix it' guy the Stake President supported by the high council.  They are responsible for training and guiding bishoprics ...  And they would be the first line against anything like the OP describes.  High Councilmen should be showing up in a ward on a regular basis

[pam]

Unless you consider the 'fix it' guy the Stake President supported by the high council.  They are responsible for training and guiding bishoprics ...  And they would be the first line against anything like the OP describes.  High Councilmen should be showing up in a ward on a regular basis

 

Well that's not how it was described in the OP.  Supposedly some guy got a call that he needed to go fix a ward.  That's just strange to me and not something I've ever heard of.

[estradling75]

Well that's not how it was described in the OP.  Supposedly some guy got a call that he needed to go fix a ward.  That's just strange to me and not something I've ever heard of.

 

 

Indeed... Its be my experience that those what want to see something shadowy and conspiratorial will do so regardless of what everyone says.  Not much you can do about them.  But sometimes they get to someone that simply doesn't know any better and so lacking any better info they accept it.  I don't know which category the OP is.  But I think for the second type an answer showing how the Church is set up to handle such cases should they happen, with the way the church is publicly and openly set up is a better answer.

 

Because when a person understand that they have to ask themselves why would the church have a Mr. Fix it when they already have the people and organization in place to fix such problems

[mordorbund]

Yup. sounds legit. 

 

 

In 2004, a crack Danite unit was excommunicated by a disciplinary council for sins they didn't commit. These men promptly returned to the LDS underground. Today, still wanted by the leadership, they survive as fixit guys. If your ward has a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the Orthodox Team.

[mordorbund]

Back in the 2010 Worldwide Leadership training, President Monson included some examples similar to the OP's to encourage leaders to familiarize themselves with the Church Handbook of Instruction.

 

 

As an example, we’ve had bishops’ councils excommunicate elders when, in actuality, holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood must be handled in a stake disciplinary council. If procedures are not followed correctly, then we of the First Presidency must ratify the action or have it redone. If we’re not familiar with policies and procedures, aberrations can creep into our Church programs.

 

I’m reminded of an experience I had many years ago when I served as a bishop. During the opening exercises of our priesthood meeting one Sunday morning, we were preparing to ordain a young man to the office of priest. Visiting our ward that day was a high councilor who also served as a temple worker. As I prepared to have the young man sit down to face the congregation so that we could proceed with the ordination, the high councilor stopped me and said, “Bishop, I always have those being ordained turned to face the temple.” He repositioned the chair so that the young man would be facing in the direction of the temple. I immediately recognized an unauthorized practice.

 

I could see the potential for it to become more widespread in practice. Although much younger than the high councilor, I knew what needed to be done. I turned the chair back so that it was again facing the congregation and said to him, “In our ward, we face the congregation.”

 

Over the years, we’ve had to correct many attempts by well-meaning leaders to change some of the programs of the Church. We’ve dealt with lighted candles on sacrament tables, with locally determined changes in the length of Church meetings, with elimination of Sunday School from the Sunday block meetings. We’ve created methods for providing visiting teaching to women gathered in large groups. The list goes on and is fairly long. I would not try to mention all the many changes, errors, and problems which can occur.

 

 

As Estradling points out, it's the presiding authority's place to correct such things and follow up with training.

[Dr T]

What can't women pass put the elements?  

[john doe]

What can't women pass put the elements?  

Could you restate that in coherent English?

[mordorbund]

Could you restate that in coherent English?

 

I think he's asking why women can't pass the sacrament. After all, the deacon hands it off to them all the time.

[Maureen]

I think he's asking why women can't pass the sacrament. After all, the deacon hands it off to them all the time.

Exacltly, when the sacrament is handed off to the congregation, it gets passed by those sitting in the pews - men, women and even non-members.

 

M.

[pam]

So what would people like the Deacons to do?  Go down through the pews to pass it individually?

[Dravin]

If there was a doctrinal necessity the Church would design it's buildings, meetings, or both to realize its goal so that priesthood holders could pass to each individual. Which would suggest to me it isn't an exception to the doctrine made by necessity.

 

In any case, doctrinal distinction or necessity exception, Dr. T's question stands. If it's the former, it becomes, "Why is a necessity exception given for the logistics on the pew level but not in getting it from the sacrament table to the pew, or between pews?" If it's the latter, it becomes, "What is the doctrinal distinction between the sacrament being passed along the pew versus it being passed from the sacrament table to the pew, and between pews?*"

 

*It is possible the doctrinal distinction is from sacrament table and back and not between the pews. Lacking a doctrinal distinction it still makes sense to have the passers transfer the sacrament between pews.

[The Folk Prophet]

If there was a doctrinal necessity the Church would design it's buildings, meetings, or both to realize its goal so that priesthood holders could pass to each individual. Which would suggest to me it isn't an exception to the doctrine made by necessity.

 

In any case, doctrinal distinction or necessity exception, Dr. T's question stands. If it's the former, it becomes, "Why is a necessity exception given for the logistics on the pew level but not in getting it from the sacrament table to the pew, or between pews?" If it's the latter, it becomes, "What is the doctrinal distinction between the sacrament being passed along the pew versus it being passed from the sacrament table to the pew, and between pews?*"

 

*It is possible the doctrinal distinction is from sacrament table and back and not between the pews. Lacking a doctrinal distinction it still makes sense to have the passers transfer the sacrament between pews.

 

Okay...here's my take on it. The doctrinal standard is that the priesthood does per the example set by Jesus: "...he took of the bread and brake and blessed it; and he gave unto the disciples and commanded that they should eat." (3rd Nephi 18:3, emphasis mine).

 

I do not think that, "distributied to each individually" is inherent in the word "gave". But rather, He handed it to them generally, and then they distributed among themselves. Thus it is with our current practice. It would be doctrinally sound for a single priesthood holder (at least a Priest) to break and bless the bread and then to hand it to a congregation member, whereupon it was passed through the entire congregation and then handed back to that priesthood holder. For convenience, those passing the sacrament move it from row to row, however. On the other hand, it would be doctrinally unsound to have the priesthood holder break and bless the bread and then have just any old non-priesthood congregation member walk up and grab it without it being generally "given" it by the priesthood holder first.

 

Reasonably speaking, therefore, it could be doctrinally sound for the priesthood to "give" the sacrament to a sister (or sisters) who then distributed it throughout the congregation. But this would make little sense for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that the practice of how the sacrament is distributed is partially doctrinal, but also partially policy as related to priesthood duties and training.

[NightSG]

I think he's asking why women can't pass the sacrament.

 

Must resist the urge to make fiber content joke...