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Power of Psychics

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Do they have anything about tarot cards? While I've never met any psychics, I have met tarot card users (and used and own them myself) or is it the same sort of situation.

I never claimed to have powers its...well it would take awhile to explain.

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Do they have anything about tarot cards? While I've never met any psychics, I have met tarot card users (and used and own them myself) or is it the same sort of situation.

I never claimed to have powers its...well it would take awhile to explain.

 

There's an old thread on it in these forums (fora?)

 

http://lds.net/forums/topic/9893-tarot-cards

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Consider for a moment that as LDS we believe in God, a Holy Spirit, and angels etc... All of which can be considered supernatural, all of which we believe can and does reach out and guide us from time to time.

 

We also believe in Satan, and his followers... All of which can be considered supernatural, all of which we believe can and does reach out and tries to influence us from time to time.

 

So the question isn't really can we have an supernatural influence in our lives... the question becomes what is the source of that influence?  And when you think about it then you can understand the LDS church's position.   Tarot cards, psychics and other such things may be nothing but a sham (most probably are) but on the off chance they connect to something supernatural.... well we have every reason not to trust source of such a power, because its not the way God tells us he is going to work.

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Do they have anything about tarot cards? While I've never met any psychics, I have met tarot card users (and used and own them myself) or is it the same sort of situation.

I never claimed to have powers its...well it would take awhile to explain.

What??

How did you get that from reading this ?? Do share

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I didn't I just wanted to know if there was an article about tarot cards, because psychics and tarot users are often one in the same. It's a similar medium, and both often the neo pagan umbrella of things.

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Pam, I'm going crazy here.  Every time I read the thread title "Power of Pychics", I want to fix the spelling.  Must be my OCD acting up.

 

I agree with what Estradling75 said:

 

"So the question isn't really can we have an supernatural influence in our lives... the question becomes what is the source of that influence?  And when you think about it then you can understand the LDS church's position.   Tarot cards, pychics and other such things may be nothing but a sham (most probably are) but on the off chance they connect to something supernatural.... well we have every reason not to trust source of such a power, because its not the way God tells us he is going to work."

 

The Lord does not work in this manner.  If they are connected to something supernatural, it is not from God or a righteous spirit.  I would not get involved with it and would stay far away.

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There is an old article on Ask Gramps regarding psychics.

 

After reading the article, what are your thoughts?

 

http://askgramps.org/23958/power-psychics

Well we do know that there are other talents and gifts. And there are a few compelling cases... but for the most part what you're going to run into is gona be fraud... or the wrong kind of spirits.

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Well we do know that there are other talents and gifts. And there are a few compelling cases... but for the most part what you're going to run into is gona be fraud... or the wrong kind of spirits.

 

Compelling? How so? Convincing to what end? Do you mean compelling to suggest that psychics are real (I find myself skeptical), or is there a suggestion herein that some psychics might be, in cases, in tune with the "right" king of spirits?

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Compelling? How so? Convincing to what end? Do you mean compelling to suggest that psychics are real (I find myself skeptical), or is there a suggestion herein that some psychics might be, in cases, in tune with the "right" king of spirits?

Compelling as in there is the rare occasion in which there seems to be some force or ability in play that we can't see or identify, and are also either well documented or comes from a reliable source. Psychic phenomena covers a very broad range abilities or behaviors, not necessarily just the ability to see or hear spirits.

However events that fit that category are very rare.

One event that comes to mind was a test done at a virginia or pennsylvania university i believe (its been a while) where a man who said who could leave his body was tested. They had a large open (the open end was away from it so that he could not see into it from where he was sitting) box that was placed over him that had various papers of different sizes, shapes and colors placed in a random order. he was able to accurately describe the papers, colors, shapes and orders even after the were mixed up without his seeing them a various times.

Or once in a great while some person who is having issues with ghosts gives some sort of description that is found in later research ends up matching really well an individual who had passed away previoiusly (usually more than a 1 generation gap as well) and have had no previous knowledge of the place or person.

 

Things like this do happen on rare occasions.

now that being said...

Supposing there was a psychic for hire who could actually see spirits, i very much doubt the Spirits would ever be the "right" spirits.

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Compelling? How so? Convincing to what end? Do you mean compelling to suggest that psychics are real (I find myself skeptical), or is there a suggestion herein that some psychics might be, in cases, in tune with the "right" king of spirits?

In the other talents & gifts category... One might also mention Prophecy, and gifts used by the Church.

As far as some psychics might be in tune with the right kind of spirits... I would certainly think so.

Some of the most in tune with the Spirit people I've ever met have belonged to other religions, or no religion at all.

Gramps DOES mix up his terminology, a bit.

Psychic is something of a general term (like Christian, or Science) meanwhile what he describes is known as a Medium (able to talk with spirits / ghosts).

Psychic : Medium, Telepath, Telemetrics, Empathy

Christianity : LDS, Catholic, Pentacostal, Baptist

Science : Immunology, Organic Chem, Astronomy, Medicine

I agree... Most people who purport to be XYZ...aren't.

Some are undoubtedly fraudulent, others merely damaged, while still others are like me (NOT psychic, but more sensory aware than most people... I get confused with an Empath on a regular basis, because I read facial expression & body language really well).

But I do believe some people have Gifts.

I believe our President has a Gift. Gifts. Plural.

Most of the people I've met with Gifts & Talents hide the bejeebers out of them.

Self preservation.

It's people like me, who can read people, that tend to sell our talents.

Whether fraudulentl mystics, law enforcement, artists... There are a lot of ways to sell skills.

IRL... I read people & scenes. Part & parcel with being ADHD & hypersensory. I get a LOT of extra information.

It's not supernatural on my end. Just a learned skill.

Meanwhile people with true Gifts & Talents outside the Church?

Just because they're not inside the Church, I don't think HF & HG simply ignore them.

I believe some people are quite simply Holy. Regardless of what name they call themselves.

Q

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Psychics who are not scam artist receive their information from unholy and ungodly sources and should be avoided. The bible makes this very clear. In fact, it is NOT human spirits that "come through" it's evil ones that the bible calls them familiar spirits who trick us. They are demons who can impersonate and who can know private details in order to trick us. They tell mediums they're "spirit guides" but they're not at all. Some psychics such as the one with the initials SB claim they speak to angels. This is a lie they've been told.

If anyone recalls this type of interaction is forbidden and called an abomination.

I had to have a few chats with my bishop about my own gifts. I was worried. But I've been assured through blessings and my PB that they are gifts from God and only him.

In my teens I dabbled in witchcraft, druid magik and spoke to unclean spirits. It's no joke. It's as real as you and me and extremely scary. And for a long time it's the biggest reason I couldn't not believe in God. After all, if that existed he must too! Is what I'd often tell myself.

That was a many a moons ago in a different time of my life. It was a good learning experience and it helps me relate now to those who're where I was to try and help them wake to the truth.

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P.S., the spirits (demons) I spoke with were able to be detailed and give private information. And could have easily tricked me if I hadn't been scared, but the fear, I believe was the Holy Ghost warning me to get out of the situation.

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I am a psychic and very LDS. We do not use tarrot cards or anything like that. That delves into a realm that is not filled with positive spiritual energy. This is a great article..http://www.mormonrv.com/mormon01.html. I find that people in the church are not very accepting of my abilities. However, when they don't understand how it works, it might be frightening. Heck, I don't know how I do it. All I can say is that I have always been close to the veil. I feel blessed and cursed at the same time. I want to use my spiritual gifts for good and yet I don't find acceptance. I have a love for people and want to ease their burdens. I wouldn't tell them their future because they have the right to make choices and to learn from them. However, I would love to help in missing persons cases, solving other cases and helping our military strategy. Read that article and let me know what you think. I'd love to get in touch with the gentleman who wrote it to see if remote viewing is still being used. I want to participate.

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There is an old article on Ask Gramps regarding psychics.

 

After reading the article, what are your thoughts?

 

http://askgramps.org/23958/power-psychics

I think there is some legit ESP that occurs (which gifts that manifest are various). I think most advertised psychics are fraudulent or mostly fraudulent.

I know it's been something thats been researched off and on throughout the years with various results.

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I went to college in the Washington, DC area and I remember seeing a lot of home psychics with neon signs outside their living room windows advertising their services in palm reading, crystal balls, tarot cards, etc.  A lot of these houses were so cute and cozy you'd think they had come from a Grimm's fairy tale.

 

One year the Washington Post did an undercover investigation of these places.  Posing as naive customers, reporters visited the psychics and asked for the no-frills basic service.  Almost every single psychic followed the same shtick: the psychic would tell the customer that the customer had a horrible curse on him or her, but that the psychic would remove it for a large sum of money.  If the customer balked or started to walk away, some of the psychics would suddenly remember that they had coupons for 20% off, etc.

 

That pretty much told me everything I needed to know about the psychic industry in America.  (Until a few years ago, I thought "tarot" rhymed with "carrot.")

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am a psychic and very LDS. We do not use tarrot cards or anything like that. That delves into a realm that is not filled with positive spiritual energy. This is a great article..http://www.mormonrv.com/mormon01.html. I find that people in the church are not very accepting of my abilities. However, when they don't understand how it works, it might be frightening. Heck, I don't know how I do it. All I can say is that I have always been close to the veil. I feel blessed and cursed at the same time. I want to use my spiritual gifts for good and yet I don't find acceptance. I have a love for people and want to ease their burdens. I wouldn't tell them their future because they have the right to make choices and to learn from them. However, I would love to help in missing persons cases, solving other cases and helping our military strategy. Read that article and let me know what you think. I'd love to get in touch with the gentleman who wrote it to see if remote viewing is still being used. I want to participate.

I think the reason why psychics are not well received is this: We firmly believe that people can only receive revelation for those they have stewardship over. Anyone professing to receive revelation for others that they don't have stewardship over should be questioned. It is contrary to the doctrine of the Church.

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I think the reason why psychics are not well received is this: We firmly believe that people can only receive revelation for those they have stewardship over. Anyone professing to receive revelation for others that they don't have stewardship over should be questioned. It is contrary to the doctrine of the Church.

 

I understand that line of reasoning - but I personally feel the truth is between the hard-line dogmatic approach and a more open-minded one. I, for one, an open to potential caveats in the realm of possibilities. Just because the specific dogma says one thing does not mean that there are not other possibilities, and likewise, the existence of other possibilities does not necessarily invalidate the principle of the dogma.

 

For example - yes, it is true that within the Church, we are to receive "revelation through the Holy Ghost" for those which we have stewardship over, and anyone claiming revelation "through the Holy Ghost" outside of that should be questioned. I agree with this, and I believe that this is also important to setting up order in God's kingdom, especially concerning the order of Priesthood authority and stewardship.

 

HOWEVER....

 

What about "revelation" that is not necessarily the Holy Ghost, and not of the devil? What about an innate clairvoyant ability that naturally exists within everyone, but just is mostly untapped? Many people who claim to have psychic abilities are not claiming to be getting revelation from God or from any other source - they are just saying that they have a "sixth sense" which is a natural ability, and either they were born with a particular knack for it or they have worked on it and honed it themselves. It has nothing to do with spirits, demons or angels, but everything to do with the miraculous power of the brain that God has given all of us, and the way that it works. I, myself, have some personal experience with this.

 

The possibility of this does not contradict or negate the concept of revelation through the Holy Ghost through the proper channels of stewardship. A great book on this is "Clairvoyance and Occult Powers" which is a classic on the subject. And by "occult," it is not meant anything to do with spirits, incantations or ouija boards - it just means "occult" as in hidden, mysterious, obscure, not understood. I do not agree with everything the author writes in the book (theories about reincarnation, etc) but when it comes to explaining the theories behind clairvoyance and other psychic abilities, it's quite thorough, very interesting, scientific-minded, and in fact makes a lot of sense. http://www.amazon.com/Swami-Panchadasis-Clairvoyance-Occult-Powers/dp/1578635004

 

Another possibility is that sometimes, there isn't a steward assigned to someone, or the proper, official stewards are being negligent. Non-members don't necesssarily have a priesthood steward over them. Or a member in the Church who is being ignored by the Bishop and ignored (or just plain not helped) by the home teachers or visiting teachers. What then? Is that person to be left helpless? If the proper stewards are not in tune or not paying attention, does that mean they're just out of luck? My opinion is no. The Holy Ghost will communicate with who he will, and move or inspire people to help others how he will. My opinion is that there can be an unofficial type of stewardship that can occur, and while official stewardship should always be emphasized and promoted, if a person is of a mind to help a brother or sister in need and the Holy Ghost inspires them, then so be it.

 

And what about revelation between non-members on behalf of other non-members? God will deal with who he will deal with, regardless of their membership. True, being a member of the Church makes things official and gives one actual entitlement to things - but that doesn't mean that people outside of the Church are never aided by the Holy Ghost in one form or another. Joseph Smith wasn't a member of any restored Church, or baptized by any authority, when he had the First Vision, or when Moroni appeared to him and he began translating the plates. Consider what that means. Sure, he was Joseph Smith and had a great mission in store for him - but the concept of the principle applies.

 

Receiving revelation about how best to help another person, or what to say to them, or being prompted to just go and do something that in the end answers another's prayers, is all a form of unofficial stewardship that can come about - and I'm sure many of us have experience with that ourselves. I know I have.

Now if it comes to getting revelation about someone's future or something very personal like that - be careful - but don't forget that the Gift of Prophecy is one of the gifts of the Spirit, and is applicable through the principles of stewardship, and it's not limited to men alone as a priesthood function. it's a Gift of the Spirit and is available to all, and will be applied as God sees fit. If someone has the Gift of Prophecy and makes a general prophecy that is applicable to all, is in tune with the Gospel and is validated by the confirmation of the Spirit to those who are in authority and were present - is that a violation of stewardship? Because that has happened in Church history, so I'm inclined to say it's not.

Edited by Magus

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I understand that line of reasoning - but I personally feel the truth is between the hard-line dogmatic approach and a more open-minded one. I, for one, an open to potential caveats in the realm of possibilities. Just because the specific dogma says one thing does not mean that there are not other possibilities, and likewise, the existence of other possibilities does not necessarily invalidate the principle of the dogma.

 

For example - yes, it is true that within the Church, we are to receive "revelation through the Holy Ghost" for those which we have stewardship over, and anyone claiming revelation "through the Holy Ghost" outside of that should be questioned. I agree with this, and I believe that this is also important to setting up order in God's kingdom, especially concerning the order of Priesthood authority and stewardship.

 

HOWEVER....

 

What about "revelation" that is not necessarily the Holy Ghost, and not of the devil? What about an innate clairvoyant ability that naturally exists within everyone, but just is mostly untapped? Many people who claim to have psychic abilities are not claiming to be getting revelation from God or from any other source - they are just saying that they have a "sixth sense" which is a natural ability, and either they were born with a particular knack for it or they have worked on it and honed it themselves. It has nothing to do with spirits, demons or angels, but everything to do with the miraculous power of the brain that God has given all of us, and the way that it works. I, myself, have some personal experience with this.

 

The possibility of this does not contradict or negate the concept of revelation through the Holy Ghost through the proper channels of stewardship. A great book on this is "Clairvoyance and Occult Powers" which is a classic on the subject. And by "occult," it is not meant anything to do with spirits, incantations or ouija boards - it just means "occult" as in hidden, mysterious, obscure, not understood. I do not agree with everything the author writes in the book (theories about reincarnation, etc) but when it comes to explaining the theories behind clairvoyance and other psychic abilities, it's quite thorough, very interesting, scientific-minded, and in fact makes a lot of sense. http://www.amazon.com/Swami-Panchadasis-Clairvoyance-Occult-Powers/dp/1578635004

 

Another possibility is that sometimes, there isn't a steward assigned to someone, or the proper, official stewards are being negligent. Non-members don't necesssarily have a priesthood steward over them. Or a member in the Church who is being ignored by the Bishop and ignored (or just plain not helped) by the home teachers or visiting teachers. What then? Is that person to be left helpless? If the proper stewards are not in tune or not paying attention, does that mean they're just out of luck? My opinion is no. The Holy Ghost will communicate with who he will, and move or inspire people to help others how he will. My opinion is that there can be an unofficial type of stewardship that can occur, and while official stewardship should always be emphasized and promoted, if a person is of a mind to help a brother or sister in need and the Holy Ghost inspires them, then so be it.

 

And what about revelation between non-members on behalf of other non-members? God will deal with who he will deal with, regardless of their membership. True, being a member of the Church makes things official and gives one actual entitlement to things - but that doesn't mean that people outside of the Church are never aided by the Holy Ghost in one form or another. Joseph Smith wasn't a member of any restored Church, or baptized by any authority, when he had the First Vision, or when Moroni appeared to him and he began translating the plates. Consider what that means. Sure, he was Joseph Smith and had a great mission in store for him - but the concept of the principle applies.

 

Receiving revelation about how best to help another person, or what to say to them, or being prompted to just go and do something that in the end answers another's prayers, is all a form of unofficial stewardship that can come about - and I'm sure many of us have experience with that ourselves. I know I have.

Now if it comes to getting revelation about someone's future or something very personal like that - be careful - but don't forget that the Gift of Prophecy is one of the gifts of the Spirit, and is applicable through the principles of stewardship, and it's not limited to men alone as a priesthood function. it's a Gift of the Spirit and is available to all, and will be applied as God sees fit. If someone has the Gift of Prophecy and makes a general prophecy that is applicable to all, is in tune with the Gospel and is validated by the confirmation of the Spirit to those who are in authority and were present - is that a violation of stewardship? Because that has happened in Church history, so I'm inclined to say it's not.

I have a lot to say about this but little time right now. I will try to touch the important things.

First, it is doctrine. It is hard line. There are things in the Gospel that cannot be "softened" and receiving guiding revelation for others that one does not have stewardship over is contrary to God's plan. Keep in mind this revelation is not the same as simple advice.

Every single person on this planet has someone with stewardship over them. A bishop has stewardship over every person in the ward boundaries, member or not. If a steward is not fulfilling their stewardship, nobody can assume that authority upon themselves. The have to be called by one having authority.

There is no such thing as unofficial stewardship.

Joseph Smith was called by authority to restore the Gospel. Consider what kind of revelation that entitled him to.

Doctrine and Covenants section 28 has a lot on the matter.

This is the bottom line: Someone cannot receive revelation for someone they do not have stewardship over. See d&c 28:6

More to follow. I gotta go.

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I can agree with the concept that everyone, on some official level, has stewardship over them in terms of ward boundaries, mission boundaries, etc. But realistically speaking - the bishop, the home teachers, the missionaries, etc, are not going to be able to reach everyone in need within those boundaries which cover millions of people. The Lord isn't going to just say "tough luck" to people in need who are seeking him and who do not have access to those who, although are official stewards, are also very distant and uncapable stewards over them. But that seems to be the reality you think exists, and that the Lord has his hands tied because of logistics. I don't believe the Lord has his hands tied by his own system of order. In lack of its presence, he will do what he will, how he will.

 

I'm confident the Lord works with people, through the Holy Ghost, as he sees fit. I'm not making a strident claim that yes, people get huge, earth-shattering revelation for other people all the time outside of the Church - but I'm saying that the Lord will work as he sees fit under the circumstances for individuals, and if that means someone being prompted by the Holy Ghost to do something for an individual, or to have an insight about them that is valuable, then so be it. And those things qualify as getting revelation on behalf of another. Sometimes a person doesn't know how to listen to the Holy Ghost, but is in need and seeking help all the same, and it's not outside of the realm of possibilities that the Lord could prompt someone who is in tune enough and give them insight to help that person.

 

A very simple, real life example: A non-member neighbor of mine was once in a very difficult situation and needed help. I had watched over her cats and garden while she was out of town and needed to return her the key to her house, but I had put it off. Out of the blue, I finally decided I should just go do it. When I came to her door, I saw she was in distress and needed help. I personally didn't want to volunteer, but something compelled me to ask if she needed my help. So I did. She got this surprised look on her face and agreed to let me help. For the next few hours, I was helping this lady with her needs. She later told me that just before I came over, she had prayed and asked the Lord for some kind of help. It turns out that me coming over was the direct answer to her prayer. So I was prompted, through the Holy Ghost, to go over there and assist this lady. Prompting is a form of revelation, albeit a small one. I was no official steward over this lady. Just a neighbor who God figured would probably heed the call. So in essence, it boils down to this: I received prompting(revelation) on behalf of this individual - and I was not her official, church-sanctioned steward.

 

If God can prompt and/or reveal in such a manner as I've described for non-members, he can do it in more dramatic or personal ways as well. The Lord will work how he will with what means he has available. The D&C doesn't say that people outside of the Church are totally out of luck for lack of the presence of the Church. It simply describes that within the framework of the Church, as effectively operating,  the system of order is etc, etc, etc.

 

And all of the above is strictly speaking about revelation through the Holy Ghost. But clairvoyant psychic ability is something altogether different, and has nothing to do with Satan or the Holy Ghost, but a natural ability - and it exists - and it has nothing to do with LDS rules of stewardship. I've had some experience with this as well. I've gotten distinct impressions about things that are to come, and they have happened, and I have no distinct reason to believe these things were either from Satan or the Holy Ghost, per se. Just flashes of knowing and realization that something will be, that I would not have been able to know any other way. I can only conclude that this is manifestation of a latent clairvoyant ability that exists in everyone, but that I've been blessed to have some inclination for.

Edited by Magus

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I want to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.

If you feel a bishop is not being a good steward, do you feel that the Lord will give you revelation for some members of the ward?

Being prompted by the Holy Ghost to do something for someone, as in the example you gave, it's well within your stewardship as a member.

Do you give guidance to others saying (roughly, not an exact quote) that it's what God has told me to tell you?

I apologize for being short, but again at this moment I am very short on time.

Edited by Str8Shooter

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