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Ending a relationship over a washer and dryer

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Husband and I are planning on moving soon (renting).  Two years ago, we left our washer and dryer in our condo when a friend who was moving in next asked if he could use them since our new place provided a washer and dryer.  We said "okay".

 

Well, today I decided to look into getting those back.  This friend's mother, with whom I've always been very close, is now in possession of them and is refusing to return them.  She has a whole list of reasons why she and her son get to keep them.

 

Yeah, they are in possession of them and it was a dumb  move on our parts to let someone else have these appliances and what's done is done and all that, but...

 

I don't think I'll ever speak to anyone in that family again.  I know I'll forgive them, certainly--I really do intend to just let this go.  But this action, this breaking of trust, is costing them their relationship with me and my family.

 

Now, I feel silly over what this is over.  It is just a washer and dryer and not an expensive set at that.  So much worse has happened between people.

 

Am I being petty by saying "Okay, keep the washer and dryer, but we're done?"  What would you do?

 

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I have learned in life that in general when you lend someone something to just let it go and to not expect it back.  Ask for it back, but don't expect it back.  I generally don't lend something unless I can afford to replace it.

I wouldn't end the relationship, just put this in the memory bank and know that this is the quality of those individuals. When I lend stuff just like the Poster I am quoting said I don't expect it back, this is why I lend nothing. Think of it like this you now have an out to never loan anyone anything. If they ask why share your experience and you now have a hard and fast rule to not loan. No hard feelings it is just that way.

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I have learned in life that in general when you lend someone something to just let it go and to not expect it back.  Ask for it back, but don't expect it back.  I generally don't lend something unless I can afford to replace it.

 

 

This is sage advice indeed.  But under that philosophy, does the loaner have reason to end the relationship?

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This is sage advice indeed.  But under that philosophy, does the loaner have reason to end the relationship?

 

I think so. Trust is to be earned.  Sounds like any trust was broken.  I can't have a relationship with someone I have lost trust with.

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This is sage advice indeed.  But under that philosophy, does the loaner have reason to end the relationship?

 

Sure, but that philosophy allows you to not end the relationship.  

 

Here's my way of lending things:  Can I afford to lend this?  If I lend it and never get it back, is it worth losing this relationship?  Am I willing to not be resentful or angry if this person(s) never gives/pays it back?

 

If I can answer those questions, then I can choose to either lend it or not based on my answers.  And if I never get it back, I've already decided to not lose the relationship over it, so I don't have to worry about it.

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I look at it differently.....Yes. I wouldn't be happy about not getting it back....however.....I would want to forgive them so the sin if any is on their head and not mine....there could always be a time in your life when your all in the Temple and the same time and in the same session and you wouldn't want this to detract from your growth..

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Do they have a legal/moral reason for keeping them? Are they claiming them as an offset for a debt you owe them or maintenance they did on your condo, for example?

If not, I'd sue them in small claims court and report them to local police. Yeah, you were a bit of a schmuck; but this is still thievery and they WILL do it to someone else, because that's the kind of people they are. (Right?). I submit that you might have a moral obligation to their future victims. If you won't stop them, then who will?

(As for the original question: no-brainer to me. They swindled you; the relationship's over. You don't need to get all dramatic and tell them why it's over; but you sure as heck don't need to seek out their company anymore. Let them fade out of your life.)

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I'm on the opposite camp...

 

This is not about a washer and dryer.  This is about RESPECT and HONESTY.  Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's stuff...

 

Having said that, if I break relationships over moral issues, I wouldn't have any friends left.  I keep friends, not only so that I have people to call friends, but so that I can have some small smidgen of influence over their journey to Christ.

 

So they took my washer and dryer... you're still my friend.  I'll be yelling at you for being an idiot and I'm probably gonna throw a few tantrums but I still love you and I'll still be your friend... but I'm not gonna be lending you stuff anymore.

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This isn't over a washer & dryer.

You did a favor for someone.

Who has now, instead of being grateful for that favor, (much less returning the favor), has spit in your face.

It's not petty, it's;

Thank GOODNESS you've learned what kind of people these individuals are in such an inexpensive venue.

They have no respect for you, your trust, your belongings, or the effort & length you are willing to go to & through for your friends.

To me, friendship is about equality. There's, give, flow back and forth between individuals in a relationship.

While my friends and I differ in many ways, when that dynamic changes (or doesn't exist in the first place) the friendship ceases. There may still be a relationship of some kind, but there is no more friendship. I will not do for them any more than I would do for some random stranger. And if they've hurt me, or mine? Then it's a step lower. Just because I've ended a friendship, after learning that a person isn't my friend... Doesn't make them my enemy. Actively trying to hurt me or mine, does.

Standards.

Those whom we choose to associate with, much less choose to trust, need to meet the bare minimum.

Q

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Do they have a legal/moral reason for keeping them? Are they claiming them as an offset for a debt you owe them or maintenance they did on your condo, for example?

If not, I'd sue them in small claims court and report them to local police. Yeah, you were a bit of a schmuck; but this is still thievery and they WILL do it to someone else, because that's the kind of people they are. (Right?). I submit that you might have a moral obligation to their future victims. If you won't stop them, then who will?

(As for the original question: no-brainer to me. They swindled you; the relationship's over. You don't need to get all dramatic and tell them why it's over; but you sure as heck don't need to seek out their company anymore. Let them fade out of your life.)

 

 

 

 

 

This^^^^^^^^^^

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Do they have a legal/moral reason for keeping them? Are they claiming them as an offset for a debt you owe them or maintenance they did on your condo, for example?

 

 

 

 

The main argument is this will offset the cost of some (extremely inexpensive) upkeep they chose to do upon move-in. 

 

The thing is, that argument was already used with a trade agreed upon and is, thus, already dealt with. 

 

I would be more inclined to hang onto the relationship, except this isn't the first time such a stunt was pulled.  This is the proverbial straw for me.

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The main argument is this will offset the cost of some (extremely inexpensive) upkeep they chose to do upon move-in. 

 

The thing is, that argument was already used with a trade agreed upon and is, thus, already dealt with. 

 

I would be more inclined to hang onto the relationship, except this isn't the first time such a stunt was pulled.  This is the proverbial straw for me.

I believe you should file with the small claims court and let someone else (independent) decide what is the right thing to be done.  Not so much to get what you think is yours back but the clear the air - and then decide what and if you should forgive - it may be possible that you ought to ask them for forgiveness - but that will all come out in small claims.

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I believe you should file with the small claims court and let someone else (independent) decide what is the right thing to be done.  Not so much to get what you think is yours back but the clear the air - and then decide what and if you should forgive - it may be possible that you ought to ask them for forgiveness - but that will all come out in small claims.

 

 

I already had a lawyer buddy give his opinion on the situation (and I trust him to be fairly objective) and he says they don't have a case (since the original "Okay, I'll take care of this upkeep cost for you" was legally documeted and small claims court may be the way to go.

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I already had a lawyer buddy give his opinion on the situation (and I trust him to be fairly objective) and he says they don't have a case (since the original "Okay, I'll take care of this upkeep cost for you" was legally documeted and small claims court may be the way to go.

 

Legally speaking, I would agree, they don't appear to have a case.  Washers and dryers aren't exactly cheap, depending on how fancy it could be $1500+.  Even basic models can run 200 a pop.  If I were in the same situation and the cost was more than several hundred bucks, I'd probably go small claims.  However, even if one wins in court, one still has to collect.

 

At this point in my life, the time, energy, effort, mental strain, etc. for me to take someone to court over several hundred bucks is just not worth it and I'd count the lost money as part of my tuition in the school of Life. 

 

But everyone is different and has to weigh the costs accordingly, sometimes the amount of money doesn't matter and it is the principle of the matter . . . .just depends.

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Did you have a specific, talked about or written down, agreement about under what circumstances the w/d would be returned?  If not, it seems silly to get offended when the other party went away with a different understanding than you have.  

 

We are so dang hesitant to bring up stuff like this upfront, but we're so eager to get all ticked off when things don't go our way, even though we never actually got around to communicating what that way was.  (No, using the word "lend" a lot and making powerful eye contact when you did it, doesn't count.)  I struggle with this less now than I used to, but it's still hard sometimes.  

 

Here's all it would have taken: "Oh sure we can leave it with you for a while.  Our new place has one, but I know we'll want them back eventually.  Is it ok if we consider this a short term thing?  You can count on using it for at least three months.  I mean, it may be a few years before we actually ask for it back, but we will eventually. Is this a good deal for you?"

 

Something like that needs to be in place, before I give myself leave to get offended about someone busting a deal.

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Did you have a specific, talked about or written down, agreement about under what circumstances the w/d would be returned?  If not, it seems silly to get offended when the other party went away with a different understanding than you have.  

 

We are so dang hesitant to bring up stuff like this upfront, but we're so eager to get all ticked off when things don't go our way, even though we never actually got around to communicating what that way was.  (No, using the word "lend" a lot and making powerful eye contact when you did it, doesn't count.)  I struggle with this less now than I used to, but it's still hard sometimes.  

 

Here's all it would have taken: "Oh sure we can leave it with you for a while.  Our new place has one, but I know we'll want them back eventually.  Is it ok if we consider this a short term thing?  You can count on using it for at least three months.  I mean, it may be a few years before we actually ask for it back, but we will eventually. Is this a good deal for you?"

 

Something like that needs to be in place, before I give myself leave to get offended about someone busting a deal.

 

 

Yes, we had a very specific discussion on the returning of the w&d at the time.  They even admitted the "we want to keep this" was a much later development. 

 

I agree that things ought to be clear, but I felt in this case they were.

 

By the way, this has been resolved.

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When a small amout of butter can cause a person to be spiritually lost, I think not talking to someone over a washer and dryer is fine.  Like ou said, you will forgive and move on.  But forgivness doesn't mean you have to put yourself back into a situation.  Seems she is being petty, and feels it is worth losing the relationship, so I guess you didn't lose much....

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So they took my washer and dryer... you're still my friend.  I'll be yelling at you for being an idiot and I'm probably gonna throw a few tantrums but I still love you and I'll still be your friend... but I'm not gonna be lending you stuff anymore.

Y'all are better people than I am. Let me get this straight - you (OP) moved out of your condo and left the washer/dryer. Someone you knew moved in and you rented your condo to them? Is this correct?

 

If so, as a landlord, you had a tenant that just freaking stole your stuff. You can go all Mormon on this and decide not to pursue it, and I will understand that, but at what point do your own rights come into play? The machines are yours. Not 'were' yours, are yours. I'd send a nice, 'you're my friend and everything and we don't want this to get messy' certified letter saying they had 5 days to return your machines in working order or you were going to file a claim in small claims court. You can't threaten criminal action, but I'd sure have it in the back of my mind. They STOLE your stuff.

 

I couldn't be friends with people who stole my stuff and then took an attitude with me about giving it back. Why would you want to be friends with people like this? I can assure you, they do this now, there is more malfeasance just waiting to happen.

 

People always tell you who and what they are, most of the time folks just don't want to listen.

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So they took my washer and dryer... you're still my friend.  I'll be yelling at you for being an idiot and I'm probably gonna throw a few tantrums but I still love you and I'll still be your friend... but I'm not gonna be lending you stuff anymore.

 It would be one thing if it were a baking dish or a dvd or something along that line. This is a washer and dryer and last time I checked, they don't come very cheap.

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 It would be one thing if it were a baking dish or a dvd or something along that line. This is a washer and dryer and last time I checked, they don't come very cheap.

 

Sure.  But I lent it to them.  It's a risk I took when I lent them stuff.

 

Friendship has no price.  I don't put a $ limit on it... if you don't return my $10 baking dish we're still friends, but if it's the $100 All Clad pan, we're just half-friends... if it's the $300 washer, you're not my friend anymore...  I don't do that.

 

But, I don't have to lend stuff to friends.

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