How indepth does the Church go in teaching YM about the Priesthood?


Jenamarie
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I had an interesting experience teaching my 14-15 y.o. Sunday School class this past Sunday. The lesson was on the Priesthood, and included having the students read the relevant sections of the Doctrine and Covenants (The Oath and Covenant, the one that spells out the responsibilities of the Aaronic priesthood, and a few others). My class had 5 boys and 2 girls, and before we got into the reading I asked the YM if they could share what some of their responsibilities are, as Teachers, so I could write them on the board, then we would add to them as we found more in the scriptures in regards to the other offices. All they could give me was "prepare and bless the Sacrament". That was it. And when we got into reading the scriptures, particularly the Oath and Covenant section, more than one remarked that it was his first time ever reading that section, and when it came to the scriptures outlining the responsibilities of Teachers, they seemed genuinely surprised of what was expected of them. (and to be fair, the girls were, too)

 

Please tell me this isn't typical of the young Priesthood holders of the church? These YM seemed to be genuinely learning for the first time what was involved with this stage of their ordination. I realize the Church can't be responsible for teaching its members every single detail of the Gospel, but are the young men not asked if they understand what's going to be involved when they take on the Holy Priesthood? Wouldn't a Bishop want to know that a young man was fully educated on what his sacred responsibilities would be before he conferred them upon him? I don't know what all goes on in the worthiness interviews for Priesthood ordination, but I guess I kind of expected that knowing what was being taken on would be a part of it. Or are my Sunday School boys an exception?

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Kids forget, don't pay attention or simple haven't been taught.  It happens.  Sometimes I think when they talk to the bishop for the interview, either he assumes they already know or they are so nervous about "passing the test"  (we know it isn't a test but they think of it that way) that they don't really hear everything.  Also depends on the ward.

They are blessed to have a good teacher that taught them.  I am sure that the eye opener was a good start for them. :)  They are lucky to have you. 

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To be honest I find it interesting that you teach a youth Sunday School class and find that your students do not seem to know the answers.  If I was a betting person - I would bet you that if you asked the same question this next week - even though you just went over all the information the previous week - you would get much the same answers you got the first time.  Rather than explain why this is; I would point you to the whole purpose of the Follow Me direction recently adopted in teaching the youth.  In essence the objective is not to disperse information (which has been the objective in teaching for millennia)? But to train and encourage youth to study on their own. 

 

Your asking question is a good way of teaching and the way we have encouraged teachers to lead class discussions -- but misses the new objective which is to teach youth to ask the questions and seek out their own answers in order to gain or strengthen testimonies and change behaviors and lives.  As the SS president in our ward I have struggled with this new method and our teachers for a year and a half now.  Not that the teachers are not among the best in the church - just that changing the culture is more difficult than I ever thought.

 

If you figure this out - please let me know.  If you have not figured this out yet -- don't feel bad and please do not give up.  You are the vanguard for perhaps the greatest effort in the restoration - I am convinced that your concern and efforts are as needed now as any have been in the history of man.  We are preparing a generation for something that few generations before have ever faced.

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I would second Traveler's response.  I know every young men in our ward has been taught and read from the Oath and Covenant, they have read from D&C 20 and other chapters that specify their duties, however the one they remember -- the one they practice every Sunday.

 

This new system, curriculum, the Church has for the Youth is wonderful.  The struggle is changing the culture of teaching.  At the same time, the duty rests upon the Father to teach the children their preisthood responsibility, the Church assists.  I am hoping my three boys will be able to answer a question like yours fully.

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What Traveler said. I have taught 14-16 yo Sunday School for many years and year after year after year it's the same. Blank stares. You do have the one or two kids who you just know have "those parents" who are diligent in teaching their children gospel principles, doctrine, etc, etc. and have a fundamental grasp of the lessons each week. It takes a lot of love and preparation to truly teach these young kids nowadays who are more interested in texting during class or whatever they all do with their devices. They do use them for all the gospel tools (manuals, scriptures, hymns, etc), but it's an easy cover for the browsing and texting that they do in between. I feel it a success if they can remotely recall what I taught the previous week. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Another possibility is that they know the answers but just aren't speaking up because they are shy or embarrassed or it's not cool, or whatever.

 

I remember having that experience with my own children in a class once.  The teacher (not me) asked a question and the whole class just sat their silently as if they had no idea.  I was surprised because I knew my kids knew the answer.  When I asked them later why they didn't speak up they said, "I don't know."  That was years ago, and none of them are shy and quiet now, but that is my best guess.

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Another possibility is that they know the answers but just aren't speaking up because they are shy or embarrassed or it's not cool, or whatever.

 

I remember having that experience with my own children in a class once.  The teacher (not me) asked a question and the whole class just sat their silently as if they had no idea.  I was surprised because I knew my kids knew the answer.  When I asked them later why they didn't speak up they said, "I don't know."  That was years ago, and none of them are shy and quiet now, but that is my best guess.

The boys in my class are anything but shy. :lol: Many of them actually give some pretty profound comments.

 

I guess what's been nagging at me since the lesson is that these boys have been holding the Priesthood for 2-3+ years. How could they have come so far in the Priesthood without being expected to know what it IS and what it all entails? I was surprised and dismayed that these boys didn't seem to grasp what it is they were holding. I DO include a lot of discussion in my classes (Come, Follow Me is actually much more to my natural teaching style than the old scripted manuals were), but shouldn't these boys have been able to answer these questions before they even turned 12? It seems a disservice to these boys to give them such Sacred responsibilities without first making doubly sure that they know what it is, what's expected of them, and how to go about fulfilling the duty that comes with it *before* they're ordained.

 

I'm hoping these boys are an exception. Could someone explain to me what kind of questions a prospective Priesthood holder is expected to answer in a Bishop's interview prior to ordination? Is there a baseline of knowledge of the Priesthood they're expected to know prior to ordination? (and yes, I realize having the Priesthood is a lot more than just knowing what it is, but it seems like such a basic expectation to me)

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Many of them actually give some pretty profound comments.

 

 

That is one of my favorite things about teaching youth, are so goofy sometimes and then other times they surprise you by being profound.  Teens are great.

 

That said, I don't know the answer to your question because I don't think it is something they would forget.  

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The boys in my class are anything but shy. :lol: Many of them actually give some pretty profound comments.

 

I guess what's been nagging at me since the lesson is that these boys have been holding the Priesthood for 2-3+ years. How could they have come so far in the Priesthood without being expected to know what it IS and what it all entails? I was surprised and dismayed that these boys didn't seem to grasp what it is they were holding. I DO include a lot of discussion in my classes (Come, Follow Me is actually much more to my natural teaching style than the old scripted manuals were), but shouldn't these boys have been able to answer these questions before they even turned 12? It seems a disservice to these boys to give them such Sacred responsibilities without first making doubly sure that they know what it is, what's expected of them, and how to go about fulfilling the duty that comes with it *before* they're ordained.

 

I'm hoping these boys are an exception. Could someone explain to me what kind of questions a prospective Priesthood holder is expected to answer in a Bishop's interview prior to ordination? Is there a baseline of knowledge of the Priesthood they're expected to know prior to ordination? (and yes, I realize having the Priesthood is a lot more than just knowing what it is, but it seems like such a basic expectation to me)

 

 

Lets break it down...  Before the boys turn 12 all the prep work is going to be have to be done in the home.  Primary is good for teaching the basics... but the details of the Oath and Convent is just not going to be covered.  So when a recently turned 12 year old is interviewed by the bishop, how prepared he is, is going to be a direct reflection on the parents.

 

Now as far as I know there are no standard priesthood interview questions.  Bishop's that are really prepared are ready to open up the scriptures with those boys and teach them or reinforce what the parents have taught.

 

But the bishop also knows that the Aaronic priesthood is a preparatory priesthood.  Like many things in the church priesthood holder can be thrown right in and are expected to learn and figure it out as they go.  That in a very real sense is what the Aaronic priesthood is designed for.

 

As for church the indepthness of the Church instruction all of the lesson are going to be greatly impacted by the local conditions.  Priesthood lessons are not immune to the same things that impact the quality of Relief Society or Sunday School lessons.

 

Should the boys know about the Oath and Convent and duties of the priesthood?  Yes they should.  Do you have something you should bring the the bishop's attention?  Yes you do because it seems to show a hole in what the boys are being taught

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The question you ask can be easily asked of adults who have received the Melchizedek priesthood.  How many adults who have been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood know all the duties and responsibilities of this priesthood?  Yet, right after baptism, or very soon after many are given the Aaronic priesthood, and then not long after receive the Melchizedek priesthood.

 

If receiving the priesthood required an in-depth knowledge of the priesthood, very few man would hold the priesthood right now. 

 

A priesthood interview is to determine worthiness, are they worthy to hold the priesthood?  The lessons of this priesthood, and their responsibilities are learned line upon line, precept upon precept, hear a little and there a little.  

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I would comment again because I do not think we understand the current culture of church classes.  Having taught in the church for many years and considered myself a good teacher I think I realize what is going on.  Mostly good teachers have wanted to challenge class members.  To do this there has been effort to introduce new ideas - many readers on this forum see in my posts this effort to bring new ideas to the table and to break away for the "standard" Sunday School Class answers.  Often in a class room setting a teacher will ask a question to stimulate discussion and then try to answer the question with the new idea being introduced.    What happens is that the teacher asks a question and when answers are given that are not leading to the new idea - the teacher keeps asking for responses.  When the desired response or responses are achieved the teacher makes a glowing example of the desired response and goes deeper in the introducing the new material.  It all sounds good but the problem is that we have trained students that when a question is asked they begin to think - "Do I know the answer the teacher is looking for?"  Rather than expressing what they think, believe and understand is the answer and then being put down to some degree for not knowing the special answer the teacher was after.

 

I know this happens a lot because I see it a lot and I do it a lot - especially when teachers want to introduce new ideas.  Thus we have created a culture that when a teacher asks a question - it is best to just be quiet and let the teacher come to the important points they want to teach rather than try to add anything to the discussion and bother the teacher and everybody else with any tangents to the thinking and points the teacher is trying so hard to make.

 

In addition if the new point has been made and someone is thinking of another possible idea - for them to then make a comment - the teacher realizing that there are many more new points they need to make in the prepared lesson that the discussion is cut short with comments that there is lots to cover and "we need to move on or we will not get through the lesson".  It does not matter what a student knows - no one wants to give an answer that is a disappointment to the points of the lesson the teacher wants to get across.

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I would comment again because I do not think we understand the current culture of church classes.  Having taught in the church for many years and considered myself a good teacher I think I realize what is going on.  Mostly good teachers have wanted to challenge class members.  To do this there has been effort to introduce new ideas - many readers on this forum see in my posts this effort to bring new ideas to the table and to break away for the "standard" Sunday School Class answers.  Often in a class room setting a teacher will ask a question to stimulate discussion and then try to answer the question with the new idea being introduced.    What happens is that the teacher asks a question and when answers are given that are not leading to the new idea - the teacher keeps asking for responses.  When the desired response or responses are achieved the teacher makes a glowing example of the desired response and goes deeper in the introducing the new material.  It all sounds good but the problem is that we have trained students that when a question is asked they begin to think - "Do I know the answer the teacher is looking for?"  Rather than expressing what they think, believe and understand is the answer and then being put down to some degree for not knowing the special answer the teacher was after.

 

I know this happens a lot because I see it a lot and I do it a lot - especially when teachers want to introduce new ideas.  Thus we have created a culture that when a teacher asks a question - it is best to just be quiet and let the teacher come to the important points they want to teach rather than try to add anything to the discussion and bother the teacher and everybody else with any tangents to the thinking and points the teacher is trying so hard to make.

 

In addition if the new point has been made and someone is thinking of another possible idea - for them to then make a comment - the teacher realizing that there are many more new points they need to make in the prepared lesson that the discussion is cut short with comments that there is lots to cover and "we need to move on or we will not get through the lesson".  It does not matter what a student knows - no one wants to give an answer that is a disappointment to the points of the lesson the teacher wants to get across.

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We made journal covers for RS last Friday that is designed to hold the Duty to God, True to the Faith, For The Strength of Youth, the Aaronic Priesthood pamphlet and a journal notebook.  I was so proud to have created something that required sewing that I hurried home at 10PM (helped clean up after the activity), woke my child up and showed him the stuff I made.  He hurriedly grabbed his books and pamphlets and we put it in the cover and while he was staring at it, he said... Now, I can read it again and again so I don't forget what's in it (okay, okay, he didn't really say that... he just went straight to bed).

 

Okay, so this has nothing to do with the thread topic... I just wanted to tell you I sewed something for my kid's priesthood books.... :)

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Posted · Hidden by john doe, June 8, 2014 - off topic
Hidden by john doe, June 8, 2014 - off topic

We made journal covers for RS last Friday that is designed to hold the Duty to God, True to the Faith, For The Strength of Youth, the Aaronic Priesthood pamphlet and a journal notebook.  I was so proud to have created something that required sewing that I hurried home at 10PM (helped clean up after the activity), woke my child up and showed him the stuff I made.  He hurriedly grabbed his books and pamphlets and we put it in the cover and while he was staring at it, he said... Now, I can read it again and again so I don't forget what's in it (okay, okay, he didn't really say that... he just went straight to bed).

 

Okay, so this has nothing to do with the thread topic... I just wanted to tell you I sewed something for my kid's priesthood books.... :)

 

The idea of a mom going into their child's room as they sleep is so strange to me. Due to rampant nightmares no one could enter my room when it was dark, lest I confuse them for a monster and hit them with this large wooden stick I kept beside my bed, later replaced with a marble... thing.

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The church can't teach what it doesn't know.

 

 

This doctrine, this doctrine of the priesthood—unknown in the world and but little known even in the Church—cannot be learned out of the scriptures alone. It is not set forth in the sermons and teachings of the prophets and Apostles, except in small measure.

 

The doctrine of the priesthood is known only by personal revelation. It comes, line upon line and precept upon precept, by the power of the Holy Ghost to those who love and serve God with all their heart, might, mind, and strength. (See D&C 98:12.) -https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1982/04/the-doctrine-of-the-priesthood?lang=eng

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To be fair...and perhaps this is a shameful confession...but were I put on the spot to recall what the duties of a teacher was, I'm not sure I'd come up with more than "prepare the sacrament" without looking it up myself.  :wow:

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I may be COMPLETELY off on this, but I think that a lot of young men haven't actually prayed as to the validity of the Book of Mormon yet. They're still riding off their parents testimonies. And that doesn't really give one enough reason at all to pay attention.

 

It was like this for me too. I didn't really pay attention to what was being taught until I finally prayed and learned that the church really was true. After that though, I paid attention to everything that was being said afterwards.

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To be fair to the Church, it has roughly 30-40 minutes a week to teach members, and to add to that, classes are taught by unpaid volunteers who are mostly non-experts at the subject(s) at hand. I do think that the Church should do a better job at teaching the basics to the members, but that is hard to do, since when the new Gospel Principles book came out, the Church used it in Priesthood/Relief Society class, people complained since they thought that they knew everything, and somehow, they were being punished by being “forced” to listen to “primary” type of lessens at an adult class.

 

When I was attending Young Single Adult Sacrament meetings, during the Elders class, we took 5-10 minutes talking about one of the Priesthood ordinances, there was a little bit of “we already know this” type of whispering with the Elders, but as I tried to point out to everyone, we almost never have reviewed the ordinances. I even asked the Branch President how often he reviewed the Priesthood ordinances; he admitted that it had been awhile. 

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  • 3 months later...

The question you ask can be easily asked of adults who have received the Melchizedek priesthood.  How many adults who have been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood know all the duties and responsibilities of this priesthood?  Yet, right after baptism, or very soon after many are given the Aaronic priesthood, and then not long after receive the Melchizedek priesthood.

 

If receiving the priesthood required an in-depth knowledge of the priesthood, very few man would hold the priesthood right now. 

 

A priesthood interview is to determine worthiness, are they worthy to hold the priesthood?  The lessons of this priesthood, and their responsibilities are learned line upon line, precept upon precept, hear a little and there a little.  

Very well said.

 

 

On a day to day basis im thinking more about my worthiness to hold on to the priesthood rather then what I can and cant do with it.

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probably mostly depends on the teacher. if you are wanting more than just what is in the instruction manuals.

I do note that a lot of teaching is by the method of example, and often by learning to swim by getting thrown into the deep end of the pool after being told or shown just a little bit (my guess is because that humbles people).

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