Church and socializing


james.po
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I did not come across this exact topic in a search of the forum, but I did find some similar ones with good advice, so I am taking a chance here.

 

I have been a church member for almost two years and cannot adapt to the culture. The members are friendly enough, but it is as if I do not exist, or am not wanted, once a church activity is over. Originally, I had a few friends, but most have moved and the two remaining show no concern whether I attended church or not; they are friends either way and I am thankful for that. There has been occasions where my friends would get invites to non-church activities, sometimes right in front of me, but not I, and some occasions where one of my friends would accidentally let it slip that someone invited them and not me to a get together. He would feel bad for leaking it and invite me to come along, only to my dismay as people obviously found it rude and inconsiderate that I was there. I honestly do not think anyone is being hateful or mean, but maybe just non-inclusive. Most of them are single like me and we have a lot in common. 

 

The only conclusion I can draw is that people do not want to be around my personality. I do not have any of the prized Mormon attributes. I admit that I am cynical, sarcastic, and not always a happy person (partly because of clinical depression), but I try to make people laugh by turning it into jokes. Most do laugh and tell me how funny I am, but it does not seem to help. I understand that people are not required to be my friend, but I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong to them. I have hosted movie nights, invited everyone out to a movie, and suggested all kinds of activities, with some limited success. I try to help people and I have loaned money, bought food, given rides, shared my home, fed missionaries, given talks, given my testimony, and tutored students. Everyone appreciates it and thanks me, but I often end up sitting at home alone because no one invites me out and the only alternative social activity I can think of that I can do alone would be clubbing, which I gave up to join the church.

 

When I mention this problem to someone—bishops, leaders, friends, non-friends—they say that I am whining, that I want pity, and that the church is not about socializing. If that is true, then why is there an emphasis on socializing?  When I was in ward council, the first thing people would say when someone new showed up was that they need to be invited to all the social activities, they need a friend to hang out with, and should be given a calling.  These are all social activities.  Potlucks, camping, ward meetings, Elder’s Quorum, Sunday school, even simply helping someone move is a social activity. The only thing that is not social in the church is private study. I admit that it is not the primary purpose, but how can socializing not be a part of it?

 

I stopped attending church except for the occasional sacrament meeting in which I would leave during the closing hymn.  If the church really is only about God, then sacrament is the only activity required to be in a social setting because we cannot do it alone. Almost every Christian faith performs sacrament, which is about your personal relationship with God. The specific ceremonial details are not important compared to the personal and private promise you make with God. It is hard to believe that God would not want your promise because one blessing was slightly different from another. In that case, it does not matter which Christian church you attend. Even though it is a great church filled with great people, it may not be a fit.

 

I guess I just do not understand the argument that socializing is not part of it. When people say that, it feels like an excuse for excluding people. I watched “Joseph Smith: The Prophet of the Restoration,” and it seems to me that socialization was one of the most important aspects of their society and how they survived.

 

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I know that a lot of people say that socializing is not part of it.  I've always disagreed with that idea.

 

I think socializing is very much a part of the church experience.  Even making that occasional contact with someone one on one is socializing.

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I have a suggestion ...but it involves changing your behaviour. Yep, If you want more friends, you have to change. Go to church activities at least a half a hour early and help set up. Never say a negative word around church members again. No cynicism no sarcasm. Smile. Only pleasant words. Be positive if it kills you. Give it six months.

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I have a suggestion ...but it involves changing your behaviour. Yep, If you want more friends, you have to change. Go to church activities at least a half a hour early and help set up. Never say a negative word around church members again. No cynicism no sarcasm. Smile. Only pleasant words. Be positive if it kills you. Give it six months.

 

It takes, on average, 2 years for a friendship to form.

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The only conclusion I can draw is that people do not want to be around my personality. I do not have any of the prized Mormon attributes. I admit that I am cynical, sarcastic, and not always a happy person (partly because of clinical depression), but I try to make people laugh by turning it into jokes. Most do laugh and tell me how funny I am, but it does not seem to help. I understand that people are not required to be my friend, but I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong to them. I have hosted movie nights, invited everyone out to a movie, and suggested all kinds of activities, with some limited success. 

 

Negativity can be a real mood killer even if it is witty. There are plenty of funny people that I wouldn't necessarily want to hang out with, so don't mistake, "I'm funny." with "I'm a joy to be around." This armchair psychologist would recommend doing what you can to work on your negativity, or are the least learn to suppress it when around other people. Negativity can cause a vicious feedback cycle, where it makes people uncomfortable so they avoid you which makes you even more negative which makes them avoid you even more which makes you even more negative... you get the idea.

 

 

I know that a lot of people say that socializing is not part of it.  I've always disagreed with that idea.

 

I think socializing is very much a part of the church experience.  Even making that occasional contact with someone one on one is socializing.

 

I'm with you, it takes a big leap to say socializing isn't a part of the Church considering all the teachings and emphasis on fellowship. It's one thing to say that Church attendance isn't based on socializing, ultimately it should be based on testimony, but that isn't the same statement. 

 
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It takes, on average, 2 years for a friendship to form.

 

To be honest, it sounds like what the OP is seeking is acquaintances. To be fair the two words, friend and acquaintances, get used interchangeably and have all sorts of connotations attached to them, but I'm with you in that friendships take time to develop, and often require shared experiences or interests beyond simply being in the same ward*. They also require a lot of effort, at least any sort of close friendship where confidences can exist. I rather recently realized there is a big difference between someone to hang out with, or seek some sympathy over your car breaking down, and the kind of close friendship where painful and vulnerability revealing confidences can be shared.

 

*Such as both having served in Primary, or both liking James Bond movies, at least as an initial starting point. Once the friendship is actually established you start having an interest in each other as a shared point of interest and your experiences together as shared experiences.

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....but I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong to them.

 

Seems like, perhaps, you do have it figured out.

 

I do not have any of the prized Mormon attributes. I admit that I am cynical, sarcastic, and not always a happy person (partly because of clinical depression),

 

Unless you're of the opinion that this cannot be worked on or changed, it strikes me that you have a clear path of action.

 

I understand not being liked. I've had my situations where that is the case. But I would suggest your objective should not be centered in wanted to be liked, but rather in how you can serve, help, and love others. Learn to approach your life from that perspective and the rest will, generally, fall into line.

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Also, it is a worthwhile endeavor to learn how to be alone but not lonely.  There are tons of interesting, productive stuff one can do alone.  And interestingly, when you are comfortable in your own skin alone, you can also be comfortable in your own skin in social situations... Being yourself and not worry incessantly over whether you're being funny or witty or whatever-else is a better approach to social situations.  When you're comfortable in your own skin, being yourself comes naturally and people tend to be more open to that.

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Your whining. Sorry. 

 

I will not deny the social aspect of going to church,  it is probably the single biggest reason that people go to church and also the single biggest reason people go inactive or decide that the church isn't for them.

 

I have very few friends that are members, I do not actively socialize often with church members, I have a life and friends outside of those circles......

 

The church is either true or it isn't. I know that it's true as a consequence I attend all my meetings and participate friends or no friends.

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Yeah, you're all right. Forget I posted this. I have to be myself and if that means I follow a different path than the church, then so be it. There are other ponds out there for me to swim in.

 

It's a good church and I am glad to see so many good people come from it.

 

Toodle pip and cheerio, my good chums.

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https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1999/04/find-the-lambs-feed-the-sheep?lang=eng

 

 

I have said before, and I repeat it, that every new convert needs three things:

 

  1. 1. 

    A friend in the Church to whom he can constantly turn, who will walk beside him, who will answer his questions, who will understand his problems.

  2. 2. 

    An assignment. Activity is the genius of this Church. It is the process by which we grow. Faith and love for the Lord are like the muscle of my arm. If I use them, they grow stronger. If I put them in a sling, they become weaker. Every convert deserves a responsibility. The bishop may feel that he is not qualified for responsibility. Take a chance on him. Think of the risk the Lord took when He called you.

    Of course the new convert will not know everything. He likely will make some mistakes. So what? We all make mistakes. The important thing is the growth that will come of activity.

    As a part of this process of giving responsibility, it is proper and very important that the new convert, if he be a man, is ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood. Then before too many months, he may be ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood. He will have the fellowship of the elders quorum. He will become one of a vast body of priesthood throughout the world, men of integrity and faith who love the Lord and seek to move forward His work.

  3. 3. 

    Every convert must be “nourished by the good word of God” (Moro. 6:4). It is imperative that he or she become affiliated with a priesthood quorum or the Relief Society, the Young Women, the Young Men, the Sunday School, or the Primary. He or she must be encouraged to come to sacrament meeting to partake of the sacrament, to renew the covenants made at the time of baptism.

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I have to be myself...

 

"I have to be myself" is directly contradictory to the principles taught by the Savior. He taught us to be like Him, to lose ourselves, to be long-suffering, patient, forgiving, kind, and to take up our crosses and follow Him in obedience.

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Your bishop said you were whining?????  Wow. You'd think he'd be more sensitive. 

 

This is why I have issues with taking everything to the bishop. I've been reading these and other LDS boards for awhile now and it's obvious to me that they just don't have the training they need for some of the problems they encounter and church members suffer because of it.

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I can see how you might interpret what I said wrong. That is the general consensus from those people, not specific quotes from specific people in that specific order.  I have to paraphrase what people say because I cannot quote them exactly.

 

The Bishop said that "it's the way the church is" and that "it's not about socializing" about 20 minutes before he said that the new person should be invited to all the social gatherings. When non-friends ask me what is wrong and I tell them, they respond that I am "whining" and "want pity" and that the "church isn't about socializing". And then friends tell me that "the church is not about socializing", often just before they head to the get together I wasn't invited too. --- The stuff in quotes are literal statements I have heard from these people several times, but I have to paraphrase it because I do not remember the exact wording of each entire statement.

 

Some people have told me that they notice this kind of behavior in the church and that they noticed that I never seem to get invited. Some people tell me that it's not true, that I am imagining it, and that the church isn't about socializing anyway.  I just wanted to understand this idea that the church isn't about socializing when so much of it revolves around socializing. I know it's not a priority, but isn't it a part of it?

 

Whatever the case is, as of last month, I know longer consider myself an active member. I will not post on this again; I just wanted to correct the possible misconception I caused about the Bishop.

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As a non member I have never really had this issue, I still get invited to things and they all encourage my involvement. However this has been an issue in the ward in the past as there have been several talks during Priesthood of encouraging involvement with everyone rather than remaining closed off into the several 'cliques' that have formed. I haven't noticed any, but then again I attend sacrament, fhe and every now and then other things so I don't see nearly as much. 

 

Being baptized would probably open up the doors for me to see more, but that is a route I shall not walk.

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I can see how you might interpret what I said wrong. That is the general consensus from those people, not specific quotes from specific people in that specific order.  I have to paraphrase what people say because I cannot quote them exactly.

 

The Bishop said that "it's the way the church is" and that "it's not about socializing" about 20 minutes before he said that the new person should be invited to all the social gatherings. When non-friends ask me what is wrong and I tell them, they respond that I am "whining" and "want pity" and that the "church isn't about socializing". And then friends tell me that "the church is not about socializing", often just before they head to the get together I wasn't invited too. --- The stuff in quotes are literal statements I have heard from these people several times, but I have to paraphrase it because I do not remember the exact wording of each entire statement.

 

Some people have told me that they notice this kind of behavior in the church and that they noticed that I never seem to get invited. Some people tell me that it's not true, that I am imagining it, and that the church isn't about socializing anyway.  I just wanted to understand this idea that the church isn't about socializing when so much of it revolves around socializing. I know it's not a priority, but isn't it a part of it?

 

Whatever the case is, as of last month, I know longer consider myself an active member. I will not post on this again; I just wanted to correct the possible misconception I caused about the Bishop.

 

See that bolded line above?  That's why we say the Church is not about Socializing.

 

The Church is about Christ.  Socialization is simply a product of our membership in Christ's Church - the place where we PRACTICE and WORK TOWARDS becoming celestial beings.  We go to Church to Worship in the manner that Christ instructed for us to do.  It is not supposed to be perfect.  It is supposed to be where all of us can work on our imperfections, where we practice serving people, where we practice forgiving people... and all other principles of the gospel.  But, that's not the only place where we practice such - we practice it first and foremost with our Families, then our Church, then the World at Large.  But, the MAIN REASON we are at Church is so that we can fulfill our first covenant - to Love and Worship God on the Sabbath in the manner He directed.

 

You don't quit Church because you have trouble socializing.  You quit Church because you don't have a testimony that the Church is the true Church of God.

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...so that we can fulfill our first covenant - to Love and Worship God on the Sabbath in the manner He directed.

 

I know this is going to sound a bit argumentative...and somewhat off topic. But I'm pretty sure our first covenant is to serve God and keep His commandments:

 

Mosiah 18:10

"Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?"

 

Loving God is sort of a pre-requisite to the covenant to obey Him. If you don't love Him first, why covenant with Him? Right?

 

Moreover, (and this is to exand on your point, not to be contradictory) if we love Him we are to Feed His Sheep. That's hard to do without socializing. :)

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OK James, you want someone to say something besides "you're whining"?  Here you go:

 

I admit that I am cynical, sarcastic, and not always a happy person (partly because of clinical depression)

 

Clinical depression is a horrible burden to bear.  It makes things so very much harder for you than other people.  Other people have friends and get invited places - you're cynical and alone.  I get it.  I mean, I can't really empathize because I've never battled clinical depression, but I am married to one of you.  

 

The best way I can put it: The rules are different for you.  You probably know about level playing fields, and how you're often not playing on one?  You've got to play anyway.  When people at church speak from the podium about how "we" should be, and what "we" should do - they're usually talking about folks like me, but sometimes they're not always talking about folks like you and my wife.  

 

This isn't a mormon issue.  You'll have this exact same issue crop up no matter where you go, or who you choose to stand amongst.  I'm guessing your experience with clubbing was unfulfilling in similar ways, am I right?  Well, convert to whatever faith you like, hang out with people from whatever hobby or demographic or age group, and this issue will follow you there.  This is what my wife sees.  

 

This is an issue of you figuring out how to live on planet earth with all the humans.  Most of them don't have the faintest clue what it's like to be you.  Most of them, in fact, have a totally backwards understanding, and when pressed to give advice, give the wrong advice.

 

Do you know about the hyperboleandahalf lady? She tried to talk about her depression with people and noticed this.  She describes it in terms of her fish dying, and she's asking people for help:

16kc5t2.png

 

There's a way for you, you just need to find it.  In the church or out of it, you need to find it.  The church is true so you should stay in it, but you still need to find your path.

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Yeah, you're all right. Forget I posted this. I have to be myself and if that means I follow a different path than the church, then so be it. There are other ponds out there for me to swim in.

 

It's a good church and I am glad to see so many good people come from it.

 

Toodle pip and cheerio, my good chums.

You don't have to follow a different path, you can still be yourself in the gospel. Friendships are developed over years, If you believe the church to be the one true church you need to stick it out. develop friendships outside of church. This will provide excellent missionary opportunities for you. Develop a hobby or skill, people leave the church because they don't feel socially accepted. Don't be that person be your own person.

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We have a new member in our Branch. Most of us members were really surprised when it was announced one Sunday that he was getting baptized the following Saturday as we never noticed him coming to Church.

 

I know this man - waited on him when I worked at the hardware and the grocery store. He has a fantastic sense of humor. He has a condition where he has difficulty walking and using his arms.  

 

He sits in a different seat every Sunday. Same with  Gospel Principles and PH. We haven't had any Pot Lucks or Picnics yet - so don't know if he will be attending. He did ask if he could attend our RS Evening Meeting as he was interested in learning about growing and using herbs. 

 

Don't know what the Elders Quorum Leader told him, but he wasn't there that night. Personally, it wouldn't have bothered me if he had come. 

 

He was baptized shortly after birth in the Catholic faith, and never went again. He works with troubled children, and I honestly think he would be the best *Teacher* for the youth SS. Out of 12 teens, only 3 are not *troubled*.

 

To the OP - I agree with the responses you have been given. Work on diminishing your negative side, and sarcasm. Not only does it drive the Holy Ghost from you, it also drives the Holy Ghost away from others around you.

 

Take a real hard look at the attributes of the people you want to be friends with. Then adopt those attributes as your own.

 

The new member in my Branch - has positive, charitable attributes. I enjoy being around him - in the same room is enough.

 

From past experience waiting on him in a retail atmosphere, I know he has a droll sense of humor and can be sarcastic- but it doesn't control him, and he has never directed it at any one person.  

 

I can be pretty sarcastic too - yet I work very HARD at not letting loose in a Church setting. 

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It is the two tier system of the church. As an investigator you are love bombed everyone wants to be your friend offer lifts to church, invites to activities etc  etc. But as soon as you are dunked people move onto the next investigator. I don't even think it is a conscious thing, perhaps it is just part of the missionary part of the church. 

 

I also find life long members are much friendlier with other TBM's than they are with converts. It's like they fear we will rub our germs on them. 

 

I think also to get the invites etc one has to be the happy clappy mormon that is out going etc. I have seen sobbing people ignored and people with issues avoided, it's like we can't have our happy bubble threatened by unhappy people

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It is the two tier system of the church. As an investigator you are love bombed everyone wants to be your friend offer lifts to church, invites to activities etc  etc. But as soon as you are dunked people move onto the next investigator. I don't even think it is a conscious thing, perhaps it is just part of the missionary part of the church. 

 

I also find life long members are much friendlier with other TBM's than they are with converts. It's like they fear we will rub our germs on them. 

 

I think also to get the invites etc one has to be the happy clappy mormon that is out going etc. I have seen sobbing people ignored and people with issues avoided, it's like we can't have our happy bubble threatened by unhappy people

 

I've been in the Church over 10 years - investigator for over 3 years before that - and I've never experienced what you say here.  I'm just as love bombed today than I was 13 years ago.  The difference is - the missionaries came to my door every single week... after I got dunked, no more missionary visits... but, I got my VTs and HTs coming to visit still, so it wasn't like I got forgotten or something... I started teaching RS a week into my baptism - so I was calling life-long members for information on the topic (there was no lds.net for me then) and they were very friendly, patient, and loving to me...

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