History of the White shirt

[The Folk Prophet]

"Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate." Maybe you read the quote from handbook 2 differently than I do? Does it seem odd to anyone they they even had to mention the topic?

 

My Priesthood is not diminished, I am not less worthy, I am not less eligible to participate in the church because I won't wear a white shirt. It's not snotty, it's not rebellious. It's I'm tired of hearing that it's a requirement.

 

Which part of "recommended" are you not understanding?

 

Clearly you're reading the handbook according to your personal bias against white shirts. The intent seems clear. Wear white shirts and ties unless there is a good reason not to -- good reasons being things like " taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church."

 

I have to ask, what is your good reason against them? Why is the wearing of a white shirt and tie a problem? Can you give a good, righteous reason?

 

If it's not snotty or rebellious, then what is your point? Our point is clear, and right in line with the handbook. White shirts and ties SHOULD be worn (but they don't have to be if there is good reason).

[omegaseamaster75]

Clearly your reading it according to your interpretation, it does not say "recommended unless there is a good reason not to" it does not say "SHOULD" be worn. In fact it says they SHOULD not be required as a mandatory prerequisite to participate.

 

Your point is not clear it is clouded in a cultural bias.

 

I don't have to have a reason righteous or otherwise because it is not a requirement.

[The Folk Prophet]

Clearly your reading it according to your interpretation, it does not say "recommended unless there is a good reason not to" it does not say "SHOULD" be worn. In fact it says they SHOULD not be required as a mandatory prerequisite to participate.

 

Your point is not clear it is clouded in a cultural bias.

 

I don't have to have a reason righteous or otherwise because it is not a requirement.

 

Really? "Ties and white shirts are recommended" does not mean "should be worn"? You think reading it that way is bias, huh?

 

O...kay..... 

[Just_A_Guy]

"Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate." Maybe you read the quote from handbook 2 differently than I do? Does it seem odd to anyone they they even had to mention the topic?

 

My Priesthood is not diminished, I am not less worthy, I am not less eligible to participate in the church because I won't wear a white shirt. It's not snotty, it's not rebellious. It's I'm tired of hearing that it's a requirement.

I rest my case.

[omegaseamaster75]

Really? "Ties and white shirts are recommended" does not mean "should be worn"? You think reading it that way is bias, huh?

 

O...kay..... 

It either says it or it doesn't you tell me

[Guest]

It either says it or it doesn't you tell me

 

Omegaseamaster... if it doesn't matter what color shirt you're wearing in the administration of the sacrament, etc., it wouldn't be in the handbook AT ALL.

 

My son, who is only 12, wears his white shirt and tie to church.  He has many other color shirts.  I didn't tell him what color shirt to wear.  He wears it because the bishop says... IF YOU HAVE A WHITE SHIRT, WEAR IT.  And he has one because I can afford to buy him one.  I can get them for 10 bucks at Walmart... and he is mature enough in the gospel to know that following this counsel from his bishop is a good thing for him.  He chose to follow the request of his bishop.

 

Some of the kids in the Philippines administering the sacrament didn't have white shirts and tie.  They can't afford one.  There's no Wal-mart there selling American clothing, you know.  So some wore colored collared shirts and some wore t-shirts.  That's the nicest thing they had in their closets.  If it was REQUIRED to wear white shirt and tie, you will be left with only 2 priests administering Sacrament in that ward in the Philippines.

 

That is what it means for white shirt to be recommended but cannot be required.

 

Now... women wearing pants to church would be very different.  There's no handbook nor apostle recommending women only wear skirts when performing their church duties... unless you're a sister missionary.

[The Folk Prophet]

It either says it or it doesn't you tell me

 

Sorry. My lawyer rested the case.

[mdfxdb]

What if someone has a white shirt.  For example my EQ President.  However, it looks like it is the white shirt that bleach forgot.

 

At some point it was white.  But now it is yellowish....

 

Is he more in compliance because his shirt is technically "white".  I don't wear white shirts on the regular because I think a white shirt should be white.  Look around the ward this Sunday.  How many men are actually wearing a "white" shirt?  

 

I submit that very few are wearing white shirts.  They are shades of white.  I think in conjunction with wearing a white shirt it should actually be white, and not sweat stained yellow.  

 

I will wear my blue shirt/striped shirt, whatever, and I wont be asked to pass the sacrament, but if I show up in a used to be white short sleeve shirt I can pass the sacrament?  weird...

[omegaseamaster75]

Omegaseamaster... if it doesn't matter what color shirt you're wearing in the administration of the sacrament, etc., it wouldn't be in the handbook AT ALL.

 

 

The overriding point is that it does not matter at all. It is in the handbook because there are members that think that it does matter.

 

I served my mission in Mexico the only people with white shirts and ties were the missionaries, sacrament was passed, priesthood ordinances were performed with the same affect as if a white shirt had been worn. While recommended it is not required.

 

For the record I work in a place were dress shirts and nice slacks and shoes are mandatory. I personally own many nice dress shirts and can say that white shirts are cheaper than colored shirts. 

[Guest]

The overriding point is that it does not matter at all. It is in the handbook because there are members that think that it does matter.

 

No, it's in the handbook because it is RECOMMENDED.

 

And it does matter... not only in Church but in other places as well (as I've mentioned in my very first post in this thread).

 

 

For the record I work in a place were dress shirts and nice slacks and shoes are mandatory. I personally own many nice dress shirts and can say that white shirts are cheaper than colored shirts. 

 

The white dress shirt is an American/Western clothing.  It's more expensive in countries like the Philippines whose native dress is different.  The Dress Shirt in the Philippines is a see-through fabric made of abaca thread which comes out naturally as off-white (or more accurately ecru) which is the natural color of the abaca fiber.  There's no "different handbook" in the Philippines.

 

[mdfxdb]

deleted because I was being redundant.

[omegaseamaster75]

Handbook 2 20.4.1: Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.

In reading the whole section this particular part is in reference to the administration and blessing of the sacrament. We can argue about the requirement and should's and shouldn'ts regarding wearing white shirts for this particular portion of our meetings but we have beat that horse to death.

 

I think what I really am asking is why the pressure for a "regular" member to wear one? Let's say for the sake of argument that I agree that white shirts should be worn to pass and administer the sacrament (I don't but lets pretend I do so we can further the discussion). What about giving a priesthood blessing? Confirming the Holy Ghost? Giving a talk in church? Teaching a class? Home teaching? If your a Bishop of stake president is it a requirement? 

[mdfxdb]

I happen to know for a fact that if you are not wearing a white shirt and a tie that my bishop will pass you up to assist on a blessing.  I guess Harley Davidson T-shirts aren't appropriate wear for blessings.....

[Suzie]

Ah yes, the Mormons and their preoccupation with the white shirt.

[Backroads]

My husband rarely wears white shirts to church unless he has reason to believe he will be involved with the sacrament that day. 

Why?

 

It's something I said once that I still stand by in a purely fashion sense. 

 

Some people look terrible in white shirts.  My husband is one of them.  Largely because he has a very odd shirt size and for whatever reason we can find his size more often in nice colored shirts than in white shirts.  So perhaps it's because badly fitting white shirts look, well, bad on him.

 

But I notice this on some other men.  They look awful in white shirts.

 

No, that's not a good enough reason to abhor white shirts for the sacrament, but it's why husband doesn't wear them.

[Backroads]

On a note of adherance to the white shirt for the sacrament... when I worked at Scout camp, we attended services in an itty bitty ward down the mountain.  A good number of young men from the camp did not wear white shirts.  Some because they forgot to pack one for the summer, others so they could avoid getting called to pass the sacrement.  It became popular for the boys to wear their Scout uniforms to church.

 

Even that wasn't enough to deter them from being asked to pass the sacrement.

 

It's tough when you're an itty bitty farming community ward.  So if a camp staff shows up for the summer, you take them, white shirt or Venture green.

[andypg]

Personally, I wore a red shirt to the Priesthood Session of General Conference last October. I was only a month and a half into the Church and didn't own any white shirts at the time (white shirts were boring and I only wore a shirt and tie for social events before).

 

It wasn't until recently, like a couple months ago or so, when I finally bought a white shirt. Partly because I was tired of being the most colorful guy in church! Partly because of some unfortunate weight gain

 

That being said, I still have my bright color shirts in my closet and if the mood strikes or my waist allows, they will be making an appearance in my ward again.

 

And I'm the sacrament meeting prep guy, so if there aren't enough men willing to bless or pass (happens fairly often), I'll do it, white shirt or not. I've yet to be told anything from my bishop.

[Blackmarch]

This may have been covered, but I am looking for some enlightenment. There seems to be a "white shirt" culture in our church. 

 

I went on a mission and I get it as a missionary you need to represent the church in a way that has been outlined and that you have agreed to do. I got home from my mission and threw out all of my white shirts swearing to never wear one again. Now I do own 1 white shirt and I have worn it, but it is for temple use only. 

 

I never wear a white shirt on Sunday, never. 

 

There was a talk a few weeks ago given by our ex-bishop. he stated that if white shirts were good enough for the general authorities he would wear on until they told him not to. The basic implication being that it was a requirement of sorts. In a light hearted discussion with the 2nd counsler I said I would never wear a white shirt unless a general authority told me my membership was in jeopardy if i didn't. He said and I quote "That's fine but if your passing the sacrament or are in the bishopric it's not really an option" I let it go and changed the subject because I know that he is wrong. It wasn't the time or place to challenge him on it.

 

So the question is were did this white shirt only thought process come from?

Mostly its a cultural thing... however one small point in its favor, at least for the priesthood, is that white does tend to symbolize purity, so there may be some application of that for those who are to officiate in any priesthood calling at church. Don't know how much that would matter or not. If the current bishop says you need to, then do so.. if he says let you get your own answer then pray about it and study and feel what seems most appropriate for you (probably the better path IMO) and go with what you feel is best.

[Guest]

I think what I really am asking is why the pressure for a "regular" member to wear one? Let's say for the sake of argument that I agree that white shirts should be worn to pass and administer the sacrament (I don't but lets pretend I do so we can further the discussion). What about giving a priesthood blessing? Confirming the Holy Ghost? Giving a talk in church? Teaching a class? Home teaching? If your a Bishop of stake president is it a requirement? 

 

Okay, now I understand where you're coming from.  I don't know about your ward, but in my ward, not many "regular" members wear a white shirt.  Not even my husband.  He only wears it if he is asked to substitute teach or if he is in a blessing circle, giving a talk, etc.  But, "regular" Sundays.. nope.  He doesn't wear Sunday clothes to Home Teach.  And no, the bishop doesn't care if you wear a white shirt to teach Sunday School or give a talk.  He only asks it for administration of the Sacrament and for the Bishopric sitting upfront.  But, my husband wears white because... read my first post on this thread on page 1.

 

My 12-year-old is a deacon.  He wears a white shirt every Sunday.

[jerome1232]

For some reason, all of my white shirts love to spontaneously wrinkle, my colored ones don't do that. It's annoying.

I even broke out the starch one time, I'm not very good at ironing, I just ended up with stiff wrinkles...

[The Folk Prophet]

For some reason, all of my white shirts love to spontaneously wrinkle, my colored ones don't do that. It's annoying.

I even broke out the starch one time, I'm not very good at ironing, I just ended up with stiff wrinkles...

 

Stop buying cheap white shirts. 

[jerome1232]

Stop buying cheap white shirts. 

 

Honestly, you are probably dead on with that. haha.

[The Folk Prophet]

Honestly, you are probably dead on with that. haha.

 

I picked up a couple from D.I. (they were new...D.I. carries new white shirts) and they're pretty bad. They were cheap though. Of course, I can't afford really nice shirts (I'd get all mine from Jos. A Banks if possible). However, recently I have found white shirts at Costco (Kirkland brand) that are just great. They're not as cheap as the D.I. ones ($17 vs closer to $10) but still not too bad and they're just great shirts. Very high quality.

[john doe]

I would hardly call a conference talk authoritative evidence 

 

Except that it was given by a man we hold up as a Prophet of God. And it's certainly not the first time the subject has come up and the same things encouraged. But hey, don't let that stop your 'kicking against the pricks'.

[pam]

Except that it was given by a man we hold up as a Prophet of God. And it's certainly not the first time the subject has come up and the same things encouraged. But hey, don't let that stop your 'kicking against the pricks'.

 

I must resist.  I must resist.  I must resist.