forgiveness of heinous sins


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Of course as in all serious sins it requires a true and repentant heart and spirit.

 

Rape I would say yes if it follows the repentance process.

 

Spencer W. Kimball had this to say about murder in the MIracle of Forgiveness:

 

Even among willful murderers there are grades and categories. . . . There are those who kill in drunkenness, in rage, in anger, in jealousy. There are those who kill for gain, for power, for fear. There are those who kill for lust. They certainly will suffer different degrees of punishment hereafter. (Miracle of Forgiveness) 

 

I've learned all of my life that murder is an unpardonable sin.Just as I've always heard that about suicide. But over the years I've heard both softened slightly.  Only God and Christ can judge what was in the heart and mind of the person.   

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Mormons have a pretty darn interesting scripture that other Christians don't have.

I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

 

So to answer your question, yes, we humans must forgive ALL.  Even rapists and murderers.  And then we leave the rest to God.  If you or someone you love has been a victim of something like this, it almost sounds like a deal breaker for believing in God.  But it's possible.  Not only is it possible, but it's a blessing when it happens.

 

My wife and I have done it.  We speak from experience.

 

If this sounds undoable or crazy, give this Ensign article a go:

 

The Healing Power of Forgiveness

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I think it's interesting that, as Pam pointed out, the expression seems to have softened on it. Of course we still have:

 

D&C 42:18

"And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come."

 

It does specifically say it's speaking unto the church, and perhaps that plays into it somewhat -- as in "If you know better" then no forgiveness. Maybe?

 

Per NeuroTypical, it's the Lords business. I think per ourselves we should treat it like it isn't forgivable. Of course if one has murdered then I'm not sure how one ought to feel about the potential for forgiveness. I suppose that's between the person, their ecclesiastical authorities, and the Lord. But if others have murdered, we should forgive them as if it is forgivable.

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Are these sins forgiveable?  Really depends on the knowledge of the sinner and the Lord.  The Lord will forgive whom He will forgive (as shared already).

 

Have people murdered and not found forgiveness in this life and in the next?  Yes, David who killed Uriah, did not find forgiveness for his murder, for he fell from his exaltation.

 

Moses murdered, some argue self-defense or saving another life, and it would appear he found forgiveness.

 

These however, are left into the hands of those with the keys to properly determine if they should find forgiveness.

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Mormons have a pretty darn interesting scripture that other Christians don't have.

 

 

So to answer your question, yes, we humans must forgive ALL.  Even rapists and murderers.  And then we leave the rest to God.  If you or someone you love has been a victim of something like this, it almost sounds like a deal breaker for believing in God.  But it's possible.  Not only is it possible, but it's a blessing when it happens.

 

My wife and I have done it.  We speak from experience.

 

If this sounds undoable or crazy, give this Ensign article a go:

 

The Healing Power of Forgiveness

Thanks, great post!

 

I think one of the things that helps when faced with trying to forgive someone who has committed a serious and especially hurtful sin is to remember that the person is one who was faithful in the pre-mortal world.  They passed the first estate test like the rest of us and will merit a Kingdom of glory that is greater than any of us can comprehend.  We should treat that person as one who merits a Kingdom of glory that is higher than anything on Earth. 

 

We also cannot understand all the reasons behind such events, all the circumstances and state of mind and what is in a person's heart when they do such things as the body sometimes acts on its own without the spirit being in control.  Think about the things that are done when a person is drunk for example, would they really act that way with full faculties?  I also think about examples such as the mass murder that occured at the University of Texas in Aug 1966 where 16 people were killed and 32 wounded.  On the surface one might say, how could a person like that receive any forgiveness at all but it turns out he had a brain tumor that some suggest was pressing on his amygdala which controls things like anger and fight/flight response and he was on medications for those symptoms.  We cannot say how much those things caused him to do what he did vs his spirit driving those actions but God will sort that out.  In other cases there may be similar situations that we never learn about or can understand, but again God will take all those things into consideration and forgive whom He will based in all the information.  

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Are these sins forgiveable?  Really depends on the knowledge of the sinner and the Lord.  The Lord will forgive whom He will forgive (as shared already).

 

Have people murdered and not found forgiveness in this life and in the next?  Yes, David who killed Uriah, did not find forgiveness for his murder, for he fell from his exaltation.

 

Moses murdered, some argue self-defense or saving another life, and it would appear he found forgiveness.

 

These however, are left into the hands of those with the keys to properly determine if they should find forgiveness.

 

Apparently, the former Lamanites who became the Anti-Nephi-Lehi's were also forgiven of their sins which included murder.

 

“Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1: 18.  This I believe.  It gives great comfort and hope to the sinner.  For those who have truly found sorrow in their sins and have repented, this is the hope and the promise.  For those who have been sinned against and are having a hard time with forgiveness, this perhaps seems harsh and too lenient.  If we have suffered at the hands of others, it is required of us to forgive.  And, we need to allow the sinner to repent.  Don't constantly bring up the past mistakes of someone who has put it behind them and is attempting to lead a righteous life.

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Are heinous sins forgivable? Yes. But is everyone forgiven of them? No.

 

I agree with Anddenex. It depends on various factors, such as; what is your knowledge and understanding of the gospel, have you made covenants with the Lord, and are you genuinely seeking forgiveness through humble repentance? If you've committed rape or murder, and show no remorse, or care not for resolve with the Lord - you won't be forgiven. It's not an automatic thing. At least, not from what I was taught.

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The easiest thing would be to just not rape or murder anyone.

 

I would say there is no justification for rape, but there is for murder depending on why a life was taken. (Like self-defence, war time, etc.)

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TFP, not quite so.

 

By definition, murder is to kill or slaughter inhumanely or barbarously. So technically, even taking one's life justified, can still be considered murder.

 

That's not the definition of murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of someone. Whether it's inhumane or barbarous is irrelevant. I suppose it depends on by what means it is justified. But I mean legally. Whether by the law of the land or the law of the God, legally justified is not murder.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Yes I believe even rape and murder can be forgiven by the Lord, depending on the circumstances.  This is one of the reasons we are counseled not to judge (in the sense of eternal consequences as Elder Oaks explained in his talk on judgement.)

 

On the topic of rape and sexual assault (admittedly I am thinking of the victim/survivor now and not the offender) I find comfort in the following scripture:  D&C 98

 

 

39 And again, verily I say unto you, if after thine enemy has come upon thee the first time, he repent and come unto thee praying thy forgiveness, thou shalt forgive him, and shalt hold it no more as a testimony against thine enemy—

 40 And so on unto the second and third time; and as oft as thine enemy repenteth of the trespass wherewith he has trespassed against thee, thou shalt forgive him, until seventy times seven.

 41 And if he trespass against thee and repent not the first time, nevertheless thou shalt forgive him.

 42 And if he trespass against thee the second time, and repent not, nevertheless thou shalt forgive him.

 43 And if he trespass against thee the third time, and repent not, thou shalt also forgive him.

 44 But if he trespass against thee the fourth time thou shalt not forgive him, but shalt bring these testimonies before the Lord; and they shall not be blotted out until he repent and reward thee four-fold in all things wherewith he has trespassed against thee.

 45 And if he do this, thou shalt forgive him with all thine heart; and if he do not this, I, the Lord, will avenge thee of thine enemy an hundred-fold;

 46 And upon his children, and upon his children’s children of all them that hate me, unto the third and fourth generation.

 

 

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I wonder if more will be sons of perdition than we think. We like to excuse ourselves. You hear strange things like only men can be sons of perdition, only apostles can, only those who have seen Jesus, etc. None of these are fully scripturally supported though (not without interpretation and bias). In truth, the idea of being cast off forever is prevalent throughout the Book of Mormon. It's comfortable to think we aren't in danger as we betray our covenants, defile our priesthood, etc. I wonder though.

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I'm a firm believer in forgiveness for the most heinous of crimes, if there is true repentance.  On the other hand, as Pam hinted at, 1/3rd might be "a few."  Humanity grossly underestimates the gravity of sin, and we each tend to do so with our own transgressions.

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I would say there is no justification for rape, but there is for murder depending on why a life was taken. (Like self-defence, war time, etc.)

 

If it's self defense or wartime it's not murder.

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I'm a firm believer in forgiveness for the most heinous of crimes, if there is true repentance.  On the other hand, as Pam hinted at, 1/3rd might be "a few."  Humanity grossly underestimates the gravity of sin, and we each tend to do so with our own transgressions.

 

I'm with PC here.  I'm a firm believer in the infinite Atonement.  Which means the Atonement has the capacity to wipe away any and every sin.  

 

The question is not "can any heinous sin be forgiven?" but, as some have pointed out, "How can I convince Christ to apply that infinite Atonement to my sins."  That's a matter for each individual to pursue with their Savior, possibly with the help of pastoral care.

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By definition, murder is to kill or slaughter inhumanely or barbarously. So technically, even taking one's life justified, can still be considered murder.

 

I'm with bini on this one but it might depend on where you live. In my Concealed Weapons Permit class we were taught that all killing is murder, the question is just whether or not you're justified. In literature I've read on self-defense, the general concensus is the same. One article I read by a self-defense attorney stated that all judges in the Superior Court of the state I reside in, and have my CCW from, consider all killing, justified or not, murder. He explained that that's why even though you may be found justified in the legal courts, "you can still be sued in civil court because you have still committed a murder."

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As I understand the doctrine taught to his disciples by Christ; is that we must forgive all – no exceptions.  In fact the failure to forgive is the essence of the worse and most heinous sin possible.  It is my personal belief that there is a flaw in most thinking concerning sin – including religious thinking.  This flaw is that the worse sins are those sins that cause the greatest sorrow and devastation in others.  This is a flaw because I believe that through the atonement of Christ all harm done by the sins of others will be removed from our souls as well as the souls of all others that live in mortality.  The only sins that will remain with anyone in eternity are those sins that we keep for ourselves.   Not only must we forgive others -- we must forgive ourselves!

 

I believe as we come to understand the harm we caused others to endure that we will regret such things but those things that we refuse to forgive in others will do more to destroy our hearts more than the things we would do to others by whatever means we justify such things.  Thus I believe that the thinking or justification we force upon our own souls to not forgive others will in the end destroy us and no one else.  It is the most heinous and lasting sin that we can commit that will destroy any good that could be left with us.  Some believe that it was selfishness that turned Lucifer into Satan but I see it differently.  Selfishness may have been Satan’s first step towards evil but it is his refusal to forgive that forever soiled his core, justified all his rebellious actions and made him the enemy of G-d.

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