forgiveness of heinous sins

[Seminarysnoozer]

As I understand the doctrine taught to his disciples by Christ; is that we must forgive all – no exceptions.  In fact the failure to forgive is the essence of the worse and most heinous sin possible. 

So, in that light, what do you think of an LDS family who looses a daughter to a killer and wants to find the killer at all costs to "bring them to justice"?

 

I am thinking of a very specific example of this where a family that spent lots of money and time and energy hunting down this killer so they could bring "justice" for their daughter.  After all of that effort, the "killer" was found but he denied doing it and yet the family stood up publicly and said they cannot forgive him because they can't understand why he didn't admit to the killing even after he was "brought to justice" by the court and jury. (by the way - I am not divulging who this family is nor have I confronted this family or know this family personally enough to really know what is in their heart - I am just speaking of what came across in their court room presentation and using it more as a hypothetical situation even though it is based on my understanding of this case)

 

A desire to 'bring someone to justice' without really knowing if they are guilty or not, to me is an example of not forgiving.  Bringing someone to justice, in terms of tracking down a killer or spending lots of money on lawyers and private investigators etc, just to have someone have their day in court seems like not forgiving.  Even if the person is a killer and could potentially hurt someone else, that is the police' job.  They should help in finding the person if the police ask for information etc, but to spend a lot of money on lawyers etc goes beyond assisting the police and seems like a profession of not forgiving.

 

In the same light, it bugs me that my mother-in-law gets so much enjoyment in watching these 20-20 shows in which the same kind of story is played out.  Someone is killed in the family, could it be the spouse?   The family cries over there not being justice until the killer is caught.  You can see the anger in their eyes.  And throughout the whole show, one is forced to make quick judgements about who the killer really is.  My mother-in-law says things like "I hope they catch him", "I know he did it".  And is visibly dissapointed when the person gets off or if the case is left unsolved.  This is the same reason I hate watching the news.  I think there are too many stories out there showing that "fighting for justice" is a noble thing when it is really just a legal way to judge and not forgive.

[Traveler]

So, in that light, what do you think of an LDS family who looses a daughter to a killer and wants to find the killer at all costs to "bring them to justice"?

 

I am thinking of a very specific example of this where a family that spent lots of money and time and energy hunting down this killer so they could bring "justice" for their daughter.  After all of that effort, the "killer" was found but he denied doing it and yet the family stood up publicly and said they cannot forgive him because they can't understand why he didn't admit to the killing even after he was "brought to justice" by the court and jury. (by the way - I am not divulging who this family is nor have I confronted this family or know this family personally enough to really know what is in their heart - I am just speaking of what came across in their court room presentation and using it more as a hypothetical situation even though it is based on my understanding of this case)

 

A desire to 'bring someone to justice' without really knowing if they are guilty or not, to me is an example of not forgiving.  Bringing someone to justice, in terms of tracking down a killer or spending lots of money on lawyers and private investigators etc, just to have someone have their day in court seems like not forgiving.  Even if the person is a killer and could potentially hurt someone else, that is the police' job.  They should help in finding the person if the police ask for information etc, but to spend a lot of money on lawyers etc goes beyond assisting the police and seems like a profession of not forgiving.

 

In the same light, it bugs me that my mother-in-law gets so much enjoyment in watching these 20-20 shows in which the same kind of story is played out.  Someone is killed in the family, could it be the spouse?   The family cries over there not being justice until the killer is caught.  You can see the anger in their eyes.  And throughout the whole show, one is forced to make quick judgements about who the killer really is.  My mother-in-law says things like "I hope they catch him", "I know he did it".  And is visibly dissapointed when the person gets off or if the case is left unsolved.  This is the same reason I hate watching the news.  I think there are too many stories out there showing that "fighting for justice" is a noble thing when it is really just a legal way to judge and not forgive.

Whatever a person does with their agency is their choice.  My advice, though I as somewhat a hypocrite, is to have faith in the atonement, let justice find its course, be honest in our understanding but forgive others.  If it is our job to hunt down criminals in society – we do what we have been charged to do within the limits of the laws the govern us.  If we trust this life only for justice – we will become the enemy of eternal justice.

 

When I meet my maker in the next life; my plan is the beg forgiveness for all my sins and plead for mercy.  I do not plan to accuse anyone of anything and trust that G-d will, in his mercy, deal justly with us all.  I plan to accept whatever he gives out with praise and thanksgiving – even that which is given to those that harmed me and those I love.  Why?  Because this is what I understand of Christ – so if I must suffer – so be it.

[Jane_Doe]

Justice being served and forgiveness are two very different things.  

 

Example: someone steals a candy bar.  Justice is them giving it back.  Forgiveness the store-keeper and thief letting go of the hurt feelings.

[Jane_Doe]

One thing that has yet to be mentioned---

 

Forgiveness serves a purpose for US.  To forgive someone is for the victim to let go of those bitter-hateful feelings so that they can stop being a victim and move on with their own life.  

 

By Christ being the Judge, that means we don't have to!  We don't need to hunt people down, we don't need to decide if they deserve XYZ, or anything like that.  Christ got's it covered: no one escapes Him and He knows truly what's in a person's heart.  

 

What we need to focus on is our relationship with Christ: feeling His healing, and letting go of the feeling of hurt.

[Traveler]

One thing that has yet to be mentioned---

 

Forgiveness serves a purpose for US.  To forgive someone is for the victim to let go of those bitter-hateful feelings so that they can stop being a victim and move on with their own life.  

 

By Christ being the Judge, that means we don't have to!  We don't need to hunt people down, we don't need to decide if they deserve XYZ, or anything like that.  Christ got's it covered: no one escapes Him and He knows truly what's in a person's heart.  

 

What we need to focus on is our relationship with Christ: feeling His healing, and letting go of the feeling of hurt.

 

I think there is a little more to forgiveness.  That is that we ask Christ not to punish them for causing us to endur whatever it was that we suffered.

[Still_Small_Voice]

To me forgiveness means leaving God to deal out justice.  We trust that the LORD will deal out justice to those who perform wicked acts and not harbor hate in our hearts for the offender.  But this also does not mean that we are to become a carpet that anyone can just wipe their feet on.

[Seminarysnoozer]

One thing that has yet to be mentioned---

 

Forgiveness serves a purpose for US.  To forgive someone is for the victim to let go of those bitter-hateful feelings so that they can stop being a victim and move on with their own life.  

 

By Christ being the Judge, that means we don't have to!  We don't need to hunt people down, we don't need to decide if they deserve XYZ, or anything like that.  Christ got's it covered: no one escapes Him and He knows truly what's in a person's heart.  

 

What we need to focus on is our relationship with Christ: feeling His healing, and letting go of the feeling of hurt.

That being the case, then, if your sister was killed, it would be wrong to hire a private investigator to track a presummed killer like the boyfriend or hire lawyers to build a case against the boyfriend to get him to talk, etc?

 

Just watch the news on any given night (maybe this is just in San Diego) and there is some family on whos loved one was killed and they "can't rest until justice is served".  Then if an LDS man's wife is killed and they are not spending their life savings hunting down the killer they look like they are guilty - at least that is how our society sees it as opposed to a person that is truly forgiving. 

 

It kind of makes me think of watching the world cup, if the player is not screaming and rolling around on the field then nobody gets a card.  It also makes me think of the woman who lost her son in the war and then devoted her life to anti-war persuits, in the meantime losing her family life. 

 

I think our culture has turned into one that it is unusual if one doesn't scream and roll around on the ground after something bad happens to them.

 

In the end, I think it might be worse for the person who spends their life savings tracking down the killer and making sure that justice is served then it would be for the killer who ultimately repents because the one who spent all their life savings on justice will be met with the same level of justice in the next life.   Satan potentially wins twice with that kind of reaction.

 

Charity allows forgiveness to flow easier when one is not easily provoked and hopeth in all things.

[yjacket]

I am always struck by the Ammonites in the BoM:

Now when the people saw that they were coming against them they went out to meet them, and prostrated themselves before them to the earth, and began to call on the name of the Lord; and thus they were in this attitude when the Lamanites began to fall upon them, and began to slay them with the sword.

 22 And thus without meeting any resistance, they did slay a thousand and five of them; and we know that they are blessed, for they have gone to dwell with their God.

 23 Now when the Lamanites saw that their brethren would not flee from the sword, neither would they turn aside to the right hand or to the left, but that they would lie down and perish, andpraised God even in the very act of perishing under the sword—

 24 Now when the Lamanites saw this they did forbear from slaying them; and there were many whose hearts had swollen in them for those of their brethren who had fallen under the sword, for they repented of the things which they had done.

 25 And it came to pass that they threw down their weapons of war, and they would not take them again, for they were stung for the murders which they had committed; and they came down even as their brethren, relying upon the mercies of those whose arms were lifted to slay them.

 26 And it came to pass that the people of God were joined that day by more than the number who had been slain; and those who had been slain were righteous people, therefore we have no reason to doubt but what they were saved.

I believe there is a powerful lesson here to be learned about forgiveness and justice.

[bytor2112]

I believe that murders etc. will have to suffer for their own sins and after will be called forward in the last resurrection and inherit the Telestial Kingdom.