Members Who Disrupt Lessons at Church


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We have a member in our ward who makes Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society "interesting".  What I mean is that she makes everyone uncomfortable with her comments that are basically just pushing her agenda and derailing the lesson.

 

For example:  The other day in RS she blurts out that she thinks it was a mistake for the church to excommunicate Kate Kelly.  I spent the whole time biting my tongue, but wanted to say, "And a lot of us think she's a wolf in sheep's clothing and that it was necessary to protect others she might lead astray!"  I didn't want to be contentious though, so I just kept my mouth shut . I felt bad for the teacher though.  It's hard to know what to say.

 

What do you do when a person repeatedly takes the lesson in this sort of direction?  If I were teaching, I don't know if I could have masked my irritation.

I've taught Gospel Doctrine for 5 years and RS for several, this kind of thing happens all the time. I have found that I always over prepare and never teach the lesson I thought I was going to teach.  I think one has to follow the spirit carefully and sometimes it takes the discussion to unexpected places.  As has already been stated, the teacher and others should try to gently refocus the discussion.  There should never be a argumentative reaction.  (lol, you all might think I am a different person if we met in Sunday School class - - I've had a few argumentative reactions on this forum).

I would usually say something like; 'That sounds interesting and would probably take a lot of discussion to work through.  We have a lot of material to get through in a short amount of time so we will have to have that discussion another time.' or a "how does that relate to what we were talking about?"

 

Most often, though, someone in the class would simply redirect the conversation with a comment on topic.

 

I always thought it was a positive to have responses that are emotionally driven.  So, I would simply redirect the energy, not try to censor it.

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I don't mind it so much when people go off on tangents, but this lady is all about pot stirring.  It seems like she doesn't even come to class unless the topic is something she can turn into "gender equality". 

 

In my mind, tangents are related somewhat to the topic at hand.  Tangents happen, I get that, and I also don't mind them as long as there is some sort of connection to the lesson.

 

But what you described in the OP was indeed pot stirring out of the blue.

 

I guess I'm saying, if you must stir the pot, let it be somehow connected to the lesson.

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We have a sister who does this too. Some of her comments are so out of the blue and totally off topic. In RS the instructor will pointedly write down her question and then tell her they will talk at the end of the block. 

 

In Sunday School, well that is a different matter. The SS President or his assistant will go to her and escort her out of the room and then listen to her disjointed ramblings. She never says a complete sentence, nor are the sentences related to each other. 

 

Don't know if this is a symptom of something more serious or not, but thankfully the Brethren are patient to the nth degree. 

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The talk of that excommunication taking place was strictly on Facebook, other members of my YSA Ward stated their opinions (one was against, the rest were for) however on Sunday there has not been talk of it at all. She is old news and will fade into oblivion. 

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The ward I'm in now has at least two that run at the mouth. Often it's the same personal story they've told innumerable times before. ( Both women are in their 40s so I don't think it's senility.) And both will rephrase the same concept or idea in as many ways as they can before they run out of breath. Sometimes it goes on for a couple minutes. Often it involves aggrandizing themselves, too. Oye!!  Honestly...can't they hear themselves and pick up on squirmy vibes from others in the room?  I'm very sensitive to it having been a teacher a few times in the past. Some teachers know how to pull the reigns or redirect them. Others don't. But we can pretty much count on lengthy, meandering or repetitive comments Every Week from these two.

 

So glad I'm in primary now! :D

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We had a gospel doctrine teacher that was the one saying controversial stuff... it was interesting that there were more people attending gospel principles than gospel doctrine until he got released...

 

If I was the teacher, I apply what I learned in teaching Primary Children... in Primary, we'd have a lesson on "Heavenly Father" and the comments would go... "My dad said Heavenly Father is a unicorn", or "Last week, my brother pooped his pants."... and then the other kids start chiming up with their own random stuff.  I would smile, remind them that we're talking about Heavenly Father and correct misinformation about Heavenly Father (He's not a unicorn), and ignore the other comments to bring the lesson squarely back to Heavenly Father.

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One of our Gospel Doctrine instructors adds unnecessary information - all of which he proudly proclaims he gleaned from the internet. Last week he had us singing hymns instead of following the lesson plan. His wife proudly showed me the list of the hymns he had selected for us to sing. That is when I got up and walked out. Just as I was leaving the 1st Counselor walked in - he is over the Sunday School - let him bring it back to the prescribed lesson.

 

My husband is SSPresident  - several Sundays ago he had to stop Br WanderFromTheTopic when he proceeded to relate the personal life history of the man who created AA - after 10 minutes he interrupted and brought him back on topic. 

 

I really dread when Br WFTT teachers AND Sr NeverFinishesASentence attends also - the lesson never gets mentioned.

 

Though there is a positive and good side to this ~ I am studying the lessons (GD and RS) thoroughly BEFORE Saturday even!!

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I was a gospel doctrine teacher for many years in two different wards.  In one of them, the "disruptor" was a counselor in the bishopric!  It was as if he coveted the calling of gospel doctrine teacher and tried to use his supposed "clout" to dominate the lessons and steer them the way he thought they should go.  Every other gospel doctrine teacher before me had quit because of him.  It was only with a lot of diplomacy and humor that I managed to teach the class and keep him "pacified."  He meant well, and he didn't go off with false doctrinal ideas, but he constantly interfered with where the Spirit was directing the class and caused a lot of tension for everyone.

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This is a deep and dark secret, and I'll probably get excommunicated myself for letting it slip, but we have an endless maple bar buffet each week in our priesthood meeting. It's part of the oath and covenant.

 

:P

 

Okay that's it.  I want the Priesthood now.

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I'm in need of repentance for my impatient attitude I have towards an older lady in our ward. (In my mind, 7 years older than me, is an older lady, haha.) Whenever she stands up to bear her testimony or makes a comment in SS or RS, I inwardly groan. She doesn't necessarily go off tangent, and never preaches false doctrine, but she meanders! She talks slowly, and she's all over the place with her personal stories before she finally gets to the point of her comment. And, I confess, her stories do finally have something to do with the point she wants to get across, but it takes her soooo long to finally get there. All the teachers deal very nicely with her. I need to learn more patience.

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There was a gentleman in our ward some years ago that was difficult to deal with.  He was ultra conservative (A member of the John Birch Society and a Mason).  We was so extreme it seemed he wanted all the coke a cola drinkers excommunicated.   There were several democrats that were most offended by his comments in Priesthood and Sunday school.  One good democrat friend still has not returned to church for several years but in all honesty the ultra conservative is not the only reason.

 

One Sunday following Priesthood one very liberal Democrat that was most offended by comments came to me to enlist my support in having the brother talked to.  Having already tried to talk to the brother and somewhat convinced that there was more of a problem than just opinions.  I believed to this day he was suffering from what we could call mental illnesses.   This has been confirmed somewhat by the brothers untimely death from brain cancer.

 

Anyway in our discussion – I asked my liberal friend to cut the conservative brother some slack.  This did not go over very well as he insisted he was not the only one being offended.  I finely shrugged my shoulders, agreed with the liberal brother then made a suggestion – when the two of us can equal half the volunteered service for various Priesthood service assignments as the problem brother – then we would have some basis to suspect his devotion as being contrary to the spirit of what we Priesthood holders ought to be about.

 

Though we increased our service efforts – we never came close and decided to let him over speak.  Knowing his heart was in service made it easier, at least for me, to over look his other less important faults.   Yea; even the comment to me about being a better priesthood holder in order to save the US Constitution.  Something he believed on the priesthood could do

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One place to look for suggestions and ways to approach disruptive people during church lessons is the manual, "Teaching, No Greater Call". Here is a link to helping those who are disruptive:

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teaching-no-greater-call-a-resource-guide-for-gospel-teaching/lesson-24-helping-those-who-become-disruptive?lang=eng

Couple of points from this section:

The Lord counseled, “Remember that the worth of souls is great in the sight of God” (D&C 18:10). Those you teach have divine characteristics and divine destinies. Your responses to their actions can help them remember their infinite worth as sons and daughters of God. Through your example, you can help them increase in their desire to help each other learn the gospel and live according to its principles.

Also...

As you think about ways to help those who become disruptive, consider all possible reasons for their behavior, including the classroom environment. Pray for the guidance of the Spirit. Sometimes people act disruptively because of something you do or something another person does. Sometimes they speak and act improperly because they are troubled, angry, tired, or frustrated. You should carefully review these possibilities as you think about the causes of problems. When you understand those you teach, you will be able to help them contribute to lessons in positive ways. (See “Understanding Those You Teach,” pages 33–34. To review the needs of learners in different age-groups, see “Teaching Children,” pages 108–9; “Age Characteristics of Children,” pages 110–16; “Understanding and Teaching Youth,” pages 118–20; “Understanding and Teaching Adults,” pages 123–24.)

 

-Finrock

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One place to look for suggestions and ways to approach disruptive people during church lessons is the manual, "Teaching, No Greater Call". Here is a link to helping those who are disruptive:

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teaching-no-greater-call-a-resource-guide-for-gospel-teaching/lesson-24-helping-those-who-become-disruptive?lang=eng

Couple of points from this section:

Also...

 

-Finrock

Thanks, Finrock.  I was a little nervous because I'm teaching next week, but the subject is on baptism, so I don't think she'll be able to find a way to work in her agenda with that one. 

 

She has a friend who is a former member and attends Gospel Doctrine with her.  Whenever he can, he makes a comment that sets her up to talk about her feelings, usually about women and the priesthood.  This poor friend of mine came out completely frazzled after teaching that class because she didn't know how to respond. 

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The outline is helpful but it is critical to understand that the outline and the lesson is not all important:

 

As we teach the gospel, we should humbly recognize that the Holy Ghost is the true teacher. Our privilege is to serve as instruments through whom the Holy Ghost can teach, testify, comfort, and inspire. We should therefore become worthy to receive the Spirit (see “Seeking the Spirit,” page 13). We should pray for the Spirit’s guidance as we prepare lessons and as we teach (see “Recognizing and Following the Spirit in Your Teaching,” pages 47–48). We should do all we can to create an atmosphere in which those we teach can feel the influence of the Spirit (see “Inviting the Spirit As You Teach,” pages 45–46).

Elder Gene R. Cook of the Seventy counseled: “Who will do the teaching? The Comforter. Be sure you don’t believe you are the ‘true teacher.’ That is a serious mistake. … Be careful you do not get in the way. The major role of a teacher is to prepare the way such that the people will have a spiritual experience with the Lord. You are an instrument, not the teacher. The Lord is the One who knows the needs of those being taught. He is the One who can impress someone’s heart and cause them to change” (address delivered to religious educators, 1 Sept. 1989).

 

-Finrock

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That would be interesting, but we had a schedule we follow throughout the year.  We have had some Priesthood lessons though, but then her comments would hijack the lesson. 

 

Have you considered befrending this person and having some personal discussions?

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Here's an idea you could try.... but it would require some effort on your part. Less headaches though.

 

I run anywhere from 4-11 group therapy sessions a week. These are open groups (meaning any therapeutic topic is welcomed) with a wide variety of clients. We get people in these groups (we call them monopolizers in the clinical literautre) who have to dominate (hijack) the entire session. A couple ideas I've used have already been presented, so here's one I've had success with:

 

I take a monopolizer aside before the group starts and I say something like, "I really appreciate all your participation. You seem to have some valuable insight (I just don't mention who the insight is or is not valuable to) and I do want to hear some of your thoughts. So, I was wondering, would you be willing to listen to the responses of others in group today, think about the overall discussion as you listen, and then come talk to me after group for 4 or 5 minutes to give me a brief synopsis of your thoughts and impressions of how you feel the discussion went and the topics we talked about."

 

But then I have to follow at the end of the session or I undermine my credibility. And I be sure to say it in a way that is genuine and authentic. ("When it is given in a spirit of love it is received in a spirit of love.")

 

1) I've validated the person. 2) they are being asked a favor (in psychology, we call this "the helper's high"). 3) they know they are going to get 1-on-1 time, even if it is just for a few minutes. 4) others have been provided opportunities to participate. 5) I've avoided contention with the monopolizer. 6) I've created new possibilities for the monopolizer to choose from.

 

The clinical literature is very adamant, and I've seen this myself, that after some time (not a week or a month, but not a year either), the monopolizer begins to modify their own behavior.

 

I realize this is church, which is very different from therapy. Obviously, as with anything else, feel free to modify as appropriate. Hopefully this is something that might work for your situation.

 

Good luck. Monopolizers are tasking, that's for sure.

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I have tried, but it hasn't gone very well.  :(

 

I have another suggestion.  We actually had this type of lesson 2 Sundays ago in RS.  I thought it was brilliant!  Instead of opening the floor for comments, break the class into groups and assign them one section of the lesson.  So then start off the lesson with the intro section (if it's the lesson from the Teachings of the Prophets, the intro is usually a personal story from the Prophet's life) then give a segue to the first section and call on the group that is assigned to that section to give a short discussion on the topic.  Then give your own discussion according to the manual (or what you are prompted by the Spirit to discuss) and then give a segue for the next section.

 

So... you're not opening up the floor for comments but you are still engaging the class in the discussion.

 

What do you think?

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