Did Gods create the earth?


Dorian
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https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-5-the-creation?lang=eng

 

Jesus Created the Earth

Jesus Christ created this world and everything in it. He also created many other worlds. He did so through the power of the priesthood, under the direction of our Heavenly Father. God the Father said, “Worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33). We have other testimonies of this truth. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw Jesus Christ in a vision. They testified “that by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:24).

Carrying Out the Creation
  • What are the purposes of the Creation?

The earth and everything on it were created spiritually before they were created physically (see Moses 3:5). In planning to create the physical earth, Christ said to those who were with Him, “We will go down, for there is space there, … and we will make an earth whereon these [the spirit children of our Father in Heaven] may dwell” (Abraham 3:24).

Under the direction of the Father, Christ formed and organized the earth. He divided light from darkness to make day and night. He formed the sun, moon, and stars. He divided the waters from the dry land to make seas, rivers, and lakes. He made the earth beautiful and productive. He made grass, trees, flowers, and other plants of all kinds. These plants contained seeds from which new plants could grow. Then He created the animals—fish, cattle, insects, and birds of all kinds. These animals had the ability to reproduce their own kind.

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I asked a similar question on FairMormon's forum. I was researching the King Follett Discourse and asked about the council of the gods creating the earth. I asked who was involved.

One poster said the council consisted of the godhead and Michael. I asked if Heavenly Mother was in the council (or if some believed that). He speculated that yes she probably was there.

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I believe all of the Father's preexistent spirit children were involved in the creation of the Earth.

 

Job 38 asks the rhetorical question about who controls all things (giving lots of "who...?" examples).

 

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone there

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

The Morning stars represnt the leaders (Jehobah, Michael, etc.) and all the sons of God are us in our pre-Earth state.

 

Now, were they/we gods?  In the context here, I believe they/we were.  Why?  because we engaged in the creation process.  But we were not obviously set apart as part of the Godhead, and we are not saviors or atoners.  Christ is alone in that mission, and is and will always be unique because he opened the gate to salvation.

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I believe all of the Father's preexistent spirit children were involved in the creation of the Earth.

 

Job 38 asks the rhetorical question about who controls all things (giving lots of "who...?" examples).

 

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone there

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

The Morning stars represnt the leaders (Jehobah, Michael, etc.) and all the sons of God are us in our pre-Earth state.

 

Now, were they/we gods?  In the context here, I believe they/we were.  Why?  because we engaged in the creation process.  But we were not obviously set apart as part of the Godhead, and we are not saviors or atoners.  Christ is alone in that mission, and is and will always be unique because he opened the gate to salvation.

 

That's interesting. I'm not sure I'm with you on the why part of it though (engaging in creation), however, if you look at God as a race and we are His children, and refer to the entire race as "the gods" (as we do know, we are gods in embryo), then it does, from a certain point of view, make sense that way.

 

A lot of speculation in this thread though.

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I define "god" as the ability to create and progress forever through creation.  Traditionally we think of procreation, and the fact that we can as a species create the physical tabernacles for the spirit children of God shows we are today engaging in a portion of creeation.   So, until we are damned, we are "gods". Ultimately, some of us will inherit all that God has, become one with God, and therefore be God (or part of the family of God).   God is a singular that describes a plural. So, we do believe in the plurality of God (not gods), but the singularity of God as well. 

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Hi, I was wondering why the Book of Abraham uses the plural when telling the Creation story. Do you believe that multiple deities were involved in forming the earth or just Heavenly Father?

Thanks

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/4?lang=eng

how do you define God? How do you define power?

For me its any being that knows Good and evil and has the power to act on it. Heavenly Father happens to be the greatest and in charge.

power is the ability to do or to cause. Whether an individual used tools in making a house or instructed people on how to make a hows and then have them do it it's the same either way for me.

In the case of the creation God commanded it and it was done. From abrahams account it would seem that those who served God did the work he commanded them (imagine that)

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I have a theory--it's just that--a theory.  It's not doctrine.  i can't prove it, but here's the way I envision it.  Please take this as a lighthearted notion, not anything super serious...

 

Jesus said "Ye are gods" speaking of us.  I think we all took some small part in the creation.  We had a strong interest in it.  I expect that the Lord has "classes" at different levels that we worked on.  We begin with basic geology, chemistry, physics, and those sorts of things so we can understand the processes involved.  Somewhere there were more advanced classes in how to make single-celled organisms, then multicellular ones.  

 

Like a good university, there were labs.  Somewhere, there was a team whose class project was to see if if they could make a lizard as big as a house and, voila--there were dinosaurs.  They had a good run, but eventually their project failed.  They didn't take into account adaptations for colder weather. 

 

There was probably a class that put together the platypus from some spare parts left over from ducks and beavers.  

 

Anyways, I think that we all took part in the creation in some small measure and we developed a love for the place that would be our home for our mortal sojourn.  My feeling is that we all were the "gods" that were involved in the creation, under the tutelage of the Godhead.

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I have a theory--it's just that--a theory.  It's not doctrine.  i can't prove it, but here's the way I envision it.  Please take this as a lighthearted notion, not anything super serious...

 

Jesus said "Ye are gods" speaking of us.  I think we all took some small part in the creation.  We had a strong interest in it.  I expect that the Lord has "classes" at different levels that we worked on.  We begin with basic geology, chemistry, physics, and those sorts of things so we can understand the processes involved.  Somewhere there were more advanced classes in how to make single-celled organisms, then multicellular ones.  

 

Like a good university, there were labs.  Somewhere, there was a team whose class project was to see if if they could make a lizard as big as a house and, voila--there were dinosaurs.  They had a good run, but eventually their project failed.  They didn't take into account adaptations for colder weather. 

 

There was probably a class that put together the platypus from some spare parts left over from ducks and beavers.  

 

Anyways, I think that we all took part in the creation in some small measure and we developed a love for the place that would be our home for our mortal sojourn.  My feeling is that we all were the "gods" that were involved in the creation, under the tutelage of the Godhead.

 

I do not completely reject your theory but I think there are some missing pieces that cause misunderstanding.  For example, I do not believe that the dinosaurs were an experiment but rather I believe that such creations had very specific and necessary reason.  That creation would not be complete without them or any other creature past or present.

 

I am inclined to think that all are associated with creation and that as G-d continues in his creating of many worlds without number (galaxies and galaxy clusters) that we learn and become invested in creation.  I speculate that other G-ds are also about creation as well and that we will also be a being that initiates creation and teaches our children of such wonders.  

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I have a theory--it's just that--a theory.  It's not doctrine.  i can't prove it, but here's the way I envision it.  Please take this as a lighthearted notion, not anything super serious...

 

Anyways, I think that we all took part in the creation in some small measure and we developed a love for the place that would be our home for our mortal sojourn.  My feeling is that we all were the "gods" that were involved in the creation, under the tutelage of the Godhead.

Was the world that was "created" a mortal home or a paradisical world that could fall?

 

Because if you are talking about developing a love for "the place that would be our home for our mortal sojourn" then, in essense, you are saying that we took place in creating the mortal conditions after the Fall.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There was probably a class that put together the platypus from some spare parts left over from ducks and beavers.  

That's the most sensible explanation I've heard for the platypus' origin. :D

 

As for "the Gods"--the term "Elohim" is the plural of El, meaning "God". If "the Gods" sat in council and made the world, it makes the most sense (to me) that "the Elohim" sat in council and made the world. And, who are the El?

 

Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Raguel, Remiel, Saraqael...

 

That's my guess. Interestingly enough, we know the earthly identities of Michael and Gabriel--it stands to reason that the rest would also have had similarly prominent mortal missions to fulfill.

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Hi, I was wondering why the Book of Abraham uses the plural when telling the Creation story. Do you believe that multiple deities were involved in forming the earth or just Heavenly Father?

Thanks

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/4?lang=eng

 

 

Dorian to understand why Abraham 4 uses plural one only needs to read Abraham 3(always check the context)

 

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 

2And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. 

2And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

 

To summarize the verses...  God showed Abraham that he (and everyone else) were created as spirits before the earth was created.  Then one that was like unto God (Christ) came among the more noble and great spirits and called them to help create the earth.

 

With that as the setup... then we go into chapter 4 with the explanation of who "They" were already provided

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As for "the Gods"--the term "Elohim" is the plural of El, meaning "God".

Just to complicate matters: the suffix can also be attached as a superlative rather than a plural. I happen to agree with you on that "Elohim" is intended as a plural in Gen 1:1; but in discussing it with mainline Christians we should bear in mind that it's not a "smoking gun" argument. When most Christians see "Elohim" in Genesis 1:1, they will choose to read "most high god" rather than "gods".

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22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones; 

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born. 

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

 

 

Given this verse, do you think some of us had a small part in the creation? Like what spamlds was saying?

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Just to complicate matters: the suffix can also be attached as a superlative rather than a plural. I happen to agree with you on that "Elohim" is intended as a plural in Gen 1:1; but in discussing it with mainline Christians we should bear in mind that it's not a "smoking gun" argument. When most Christians see "Elohim" in Genesis 1:1, they will choose to read "most high god" rather than "gods".

Good point.

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Given this verse, do you think some of us had a small part in the creation? Like what spamlds was saying?

 

 

From the verses I think we could go from everyone having a part, to limiting it to just the "Noble and Great ones."

 

I think the important part is to understand that Christ did it under the direction of the Father, and under Christ authority others were called to take part in the creation.

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