Are we righteously obligated to pursue wealth and influence?


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Nonsense. Personal expenses and business expenses are not the same in any regard. Buying a jet ski for yourself is not the same as having company jet skis. Moreover, there's a whole big huge ol mammoth gaping expanse between the church's determinations (as I believe are inspired by God) as to how to spend its money and an individuals decision to buy an expensive watch. I can judge that as a wasteful and mistaken action without judging the individual as unworthy or something. Moreover, how can that possibly be true when I am pro business, pro City Creek Mall, pro capitalist, and anti expensive watch. One simply does not lead to the other.

 

 

It's easy to say there are a myriad of good reasons to buy a 50k watch. Throw some good ones out. I'm not unreasonable... <_< (why do I sense that may get another laugh from Suzie?)...I'll acquiesce to some good solid logic.

Good reasons to by a $50K watch. 

1.  It's unique

2.  It's high quality

3.  You can afford it

 

I'm sure I can think of others.

 

What one man may consider wasteful and excessive is seen as necessary and exciting by another.  Who are we to say, and who are we to spend someone else's hard earned money?

 

Pro capitalist, and pro business do not equal anti expensive watch.  It is because you are "pro" those things that expensive watches exist, and why we seek to obtain them.  Just ask Omega, with a name like Omega Seamaster I'm sure he can educate on why expensive watches are important.  

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It's easy to say there are a myriad of good reasons to buy a 50k watch. Throw some good ones out. I'm not unreasonable... <_< (why do I sense that may get another laugh from Suzie?)...I'll acquiesce to some good solid logic.

 

I did laugh. lol and let's face it, she will give you a whole list and you will "kill" each one of her points. ;) lol

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It's irrelevant. It's 5-50k that could have been given to the poor and needy, or otherwise used to build the kingdom of the Lord.

 

 

Fair point. But I don't really buy it. $125k membership to a golf club to do business? But in fairness....maybe.

 

 

Nonsense. The requirement to be a 70 is not perfection.

 

I'm sorry...125k for a membership to a club? Thousands upon thousands for a watch?

 

I'm judging. Not the man. That's between him and God. The action though? With the potential exception of the membership being required for business (I don't buy that for a second though), I still call it disgusting.

 

When God blessed you with money you use it to build His kingdom, not to play golf and wear ridiculous watches.

 

Envy is also a sin

 

Do you really think he does not give generously to charity and to the church?

 

His wealth has put him in a position in which he can serve full time without outside worldly concerns.

 

Perspective needs to be taken into account in all things. My mission president was not a bragger, he was not flashy, he was/is the most humble person I have ever had the pleasure of working with.

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Like?

 

The Jew who bought a 50K watch because it is easier to hide a 50K watch while crawling through the mud out of Germany than 50K worth of money.

 

The guy who bought a 50K gold watch because 50K gold holds its value through America's recession than 50K dollars.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch because his friend can't keep his watch-making business open.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch because he had to face the Sultan of Brunei and if he comes in there looking like a pauper he's going to lose credibility and get shot.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch as a business expense instead of paying the money for corporate taxes.

 

I can go on and on and on with this one.

 

The fact remains... we do not know the circumstances of why a GA or anyone for that matter has a 50K watch.  Therefore, judging him simply because he has one is narrow-minded.

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"Good" reasons? I think you better keep trying.

Wrong.  The reasons for buying a $50K watch are the same as for buying a $50 dollar watch.  Just different hierarchy of needs.  The guy who buys the $50K watch needs it for more than telling time.  

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Envy is also a sin.

 

Uh... True.

 

Do you really think he does not give generously to charity and to the church?

 

That has nothing to do with it.

 

His wealth has put him in a position in which he can serve full time without outside worldly concerns.

 

I'm not down on his wealth. I'm all for wealth.

 

Perspective needs to be taken into account in all things. My mission president was not a bragger, he was not flashy, he was/is the most humble person I have ever had the pleasure of working with.

 

Once again, nothing to do with it.

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You imagine that the 50k is going to the Filipinos, huh?

 

No, 50K is keeping the business open that gives jobs to Filipinos.  If my intent was to give 50K to the Filipinos, I would give the 50K directly to the Filipinos without needing to buy a watch.

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I did laugh. lol and let's face it, she will give you a whole list and you will "kill" each one of her points. ;) lol

 

And it would be because he doesn't get it.  But, TFP is a smart guy.

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Wrong.  The reasons for buying a $50K watch are the same as for buying a $50 dollar watch.  Just different hierarchy of needs.  The guy who buys the $50K watch needs it for more than telling time.  

 

I disagree.  2 guys buying a FIFTY DOLLAR watch can have 2 different reasons for buying a watch.  Same as 2 guys buying a $50K watch, same as one guy buying $50, the other buying $50K.  We cannot presume to judge a person's reason for buying ANYTHING for ANY AMOUNT unless we know exactly what those reasons are.

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The Jew who bought a 50K watch because it is easier to hide a 50K watch while crawling through the mud out of Germany than 50K worth of money.

 

The guy who bought a 50K gold watch because 50K gold holds its value through America's recession than 50K dollars.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch because his friend can't keep his watch-making business open.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch because he had to face the Sultan of Brunei and if he comes in there looking like a pauper he's going to lose credibility and get shot.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch as a business expense instead of paying the money for corporate taxes.

 

:eek: 

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The Jew who bought a 50K watch because it is easier to hide a 50K watch while crawling through the mud out of Germany than 50K worth of money.

 

Um...yeah...okay...sure.

 

The guy who bought a 50K gold watch because 50K gold holds its value through America's recession than 50K dollars.

 

I'll give you this one. Sort of. I don't know the price of gold right now, but I'm pretty sure when you buy the Rolex you're paying for a whole lot more than the gold. Of course, maybe Rolex's keep their value better than straight up gold...so...point anatess. Still... a "good" reason. Well, maybe. Are the better choices? Most definitely.

 

Plus, the guy's playing golf in it.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch because his friend can't keep his watch-making business open.

 

Sure he did.

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch because he had to face the Sultan of Brunei and if he comes in there looking like a pauper he's going to lose credibility and get shot.

 

:roflmbo:  "But I HAVE to buy it honey -- or the Sultan will shoot me." *sigh* How often have I made such rationalizations. Obviously not with Sultans and 50k watches...but......

 

The guy who bought a 50K watch as a business expense instead of paying the money for corporate taxes.

 

And paying it to charity wouldn't have accomplished this?

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As a teen, I attended a lecture by Petey Greene, a DC activist (look him up). He said something I never forgot - you cant help anyone if you don't have any money yourself. Now obviously there is 'help' that doesn't require an outlay of money, such as babysitting for a sister in RS while she goes to the doctor. What Greene was talking about was the tendency of many people with an activist mindset to think that money is evil, to not want to work for 'the man,' etc. In those cases, if you are barely surviving, there's not much you can do for anyone else.

 

I often had to tell my students that they didn't take a vow of poverty when they decided to be librarians. There is no sin in being paid what you are worth (and today, with many library jobs requiring technology skills, the pay rates can be quite good).

 

My personal view, having been on both sides, is that money is nice to have. A well-paying career that challenges the intellect is nice to have. But what constitutes 'money' is relative. I don't need millions to do well. I do need to have what the Buddhists call a 'right livelihood' - earning my living in a way that doesn't hurt other people (or myself), doesn't require that I steal, lie, etc. Having a right livelihood that provides more than you need so that you have some disposable income to help others seems the best way to me, but that's my personal opinion.

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Wrong.  The reasons for buying a $50K watch are the same as for buying a $50 dollar watch.  Just different hierarchy of needs.  The guy who buys the $50K watch needs it for more than telling time.  

 

If you just say "wrong" it always wins. I submit to your superior logic. 

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Um...yeah...okay...sure.

 

 

I'll give you this one. Sort of. I don't know the price of gold right now, but I'm pretty sure when you buy the Rolex you're paying for a whole lot more than the gold. Of course, maybe Rolex's keep their value better than straight up gold...so...point anatess. Still... a "good" reason. Well, maybe. Are the better choices? Most definitely.

 

Plus, the guy's playing golf in it.

 

 

Sure he did.

 

 

:roflmbo:  "But I HAVE to buy it honey -- or the Sultan will shoot me." *sigh* How often have I made such rationalizations. Obviously not with Sultans and 50k watches...but......

 

 

And paying it to charity wouldn't have accomplished this?

 

 

Gosh, I thought you were smarter than this TFP...

 

Ok, do you think I listed all those reasons just so I can give examples of a myriad of reasons?  Why do you think I listed specific reasons?  Think before you answer.  And no, don't just answer so you can win an argument.  You win the argument regardless because I am not joining this as  a contest.

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I disagree.  2 guys buying a FIFTY DOLLAR watch can have 2 different reasons for buying a watch.  Same as 2 guys buying a $50K watch, same as one guy buying $50, the other buying $50K.  We cannot presume to judge a person's reason for buying ANYTHING for ANY AMOUNT unless we know exactly what those reasons are.

 

We can if we accept the chance that we may be mistaken. Which is fine as long as our judgment is for righteous ends and not to condemn, hate, abuse, etc...

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No, 50K is keeping the business open that gives jobs to Filipinos.  If my intent was to give 50K to the Filipinos, I would give the 50K directly to the Filipinos without needing to buy a watch.

 

Or buy stuff made in the Philippines that isn't ridiculously overpriced?

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We can if we accept the chance that we may be mistaken. Which is fine as long as our judgment is for righteous ends and not to condemn, hate, abuse, etc...

 

There's no righteous end attained for judging someone simply by the value of the watch they are wearing, mistaken reason or otherwise.

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A lot of gymantics because we still have not found a better definition of wealthy other then "more then I have".

 

Lets take the example TFP gave us and expand it both ways

 

If someone said his wife found a $3000 watch and got a good deal to bring it down to $750 and bought it as a gift for her husband...  Well most of would agree that she got a good deal but we would clutch our hearts at the idea of paying $750 for a watch.

 

TFP story is a $300 watch for $75 and he seems ok with that.  It does seem to be a good deal.  But I can't help but think I am not the only one going "seventy five dollars for a watch???"

 

Whereas if my wife found me a $30 watch for $7.50 I'd be all like "score" and "totally worth it".  But I am also sure there would be people who would think there was something better that my wife  could have spent that $7.50 on.

 

We are all going to find reason why what we want is ok but why someone else is over the line

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Gosh, I thought you were smarter than this TFP...

 

Ok, do you think I listed all those reasons just so I can give examples of a myriad of reasons?  Why do you think I listed specific reasons?  Think before you answer.  And no, don't just answer so you can win an argument.  You win the argument regardless because I am not joining this as  a contest.

 

You misunderstand me. And saying "I thought you were smarter than this" doesn't win you any points. I am not cowed. I would be offended, but I don't really care if you think me smart or not.

 

I stand by my view. There is no good reason to put this kind of money into a watch. There are reasons a plenty. They are not good.

 

Oh...and thanks for the patronizing. I needed that advice to "really think" because otherwise... <_<

 

You want to discuss, we can discuss. But I'm not sticking around for the ride if you're making it personal.

 

TFP out. Enjoy your ritzy watches and your fancy clubs.

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You misunderstand me. And saying "I thought you were smarter than this" doesn't win you any points. I am not cowed. I would be offended, but I don't really care if you think me smart or not.

 

I stand by my view. There is no good reason to put this kind of money into a watch. There are reasons a plenty. They are not good.

 

Oh...and thanks for the patronizing. I needed that advice to "really think" because otherwise... <_<

 

You want to discuss, we can discuss. But I'm not sticking around for the ride if you're making it personal.

 

TFP out. Enjoy your ritzy watches and your fancy clubs all.

 

Sigh.  TFP... this is ANATESS.  Remember me?  I thought we're done with that misunderstanding business from long time ago... I was building up on Suzie's LOL of predicting you going point-by-point on my response and me telling her, yeah, you would think he'd do that but TFP is smart... and here you go point-by-point just when I said that... making Suzie's LOL even more LOL to which I responded to play on Suzie's shocked smiley because it's just not in you to give up because you have to win the argument which is what I thought Suzie meant when she LOL'd in the first place...  Never mind.  Go off in huff.  The internet is too darned difficult.

 

And just so you can feel better, I don't own a watch.  And yes, I can afford a 50K one but think it would be a waste of my money.  But then you're probably going to judge me anyway because I drive a Cadillac.  Oh well.

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