The Alma 32 Experiment

[Jungler]

I’ve talked to many Mormons over the past few years, but I’ve always been skeptical of their claims, including the doctrine of testing a faith or religion with prayer. I was recently talking to a few missionaries and they encouraged me to read Alma 32 to help understand the doctrine. Verses 27-43 helped explain the doctrine, but they also raised more questions.

 

Three of the verses, 27, 33 and 36, describe planting and watering the seed as an experiment. If this is a valid experiment and a reliable way to test if something is true or not, couldn’t it be used to test similar doctrines or claims of truth?

 

Let’s say, hypothetically, that a Mormon used the model of testing truth described in Alma 32 and Moroni 10 to test the Protestant claim that the true Gospel was never lost and never needed to be restored and they receive what sounds like a “No” response. What do they do next? What does Alma say we should do if a seed doesn’t grow?

 

Alma 32 

38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

 39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

 

So if a seed doesn’t grow, it’s because the person praying didn’t nourish it and their ground is barren. Moroni 10 isn't as clear as Alma 32, but the same implication is there. If someone doesn’t get a “Yes” response to the prayer, it’s because they didn’t have a sincere heart, real intent and faith in Christ.

 

So how does the Mormon get an answer about the Protestant claim? It sounds like this model is saying they should keep praying about it with a sincere heart, real intent and faith in Christ.

 

Is this really a reliable experiment and model for testing truth? What kind of experiments predicts the result before you even start and then blames you if you get any other result?

 

Have you applied these verses to the RLDS church or any other LDS splinter group? If it’s a valid way to support the LDS church, can’t it be applied to those other groups? If you have applied it to those groups, what response did you receive?

[bytor2112]

Many Mormons are former Protestants....I am. We believe in a God that answers prayers and if an atheist/agnostic were seeking to know if God exists...wouldn't you suggest to begin with praying and reading the Bible to find out if it is indeed the word of God? If not, why? 

 

Prayer is how we communicate with God...I believed that as a Baptist and am more certain of it now. As I am certain that HE answers prayers....

 

The scripture is about faith...many have at one time or another professed a belief in Christ or were "saved" and yet fell away because they did not nourish their faith in Christ.

[yjacket]

I don't think that is what the scripture is saying and that certainly isn't the way I interpret it.

38.But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

 

This to me is saying, that if one doesn't pray, doesn't study, doesn't experiment on it, etc. then your ground is barren and one hasn't nourished it.

 

Some people will just say. . . Mormonism is false, or you believe in xyz, without ever taking the time to read, ponder, study and pray about it-that is neglecting the tree, or they might read something on the internet but not really study it in their minds or pray about it, or they will pray about it but they don't really want to know the answer, i.e. they aren't ready to listen to His Will.

 

If someone is reading, studying, pondering and praying-that is nourishing the tree.  Basically we have to do all that we possibly can to find out if it is true, take it to God and see what happens.

[Jungler]

Many Mormons are former Protestants....I am. We believe in a God that answers prayers and if an atheist/agnostic were seeking to know if God exists...wouldn't you suggest to begin with praying and reading the Bible to find out if it is indeed the word of God? If not, why? 

Why did you stop at the LDS church instead of moving on to the RLDS church or some other group that claims a more recent restoration? Did you also pray about those other groups?

 

The scripture is about faith...many have at one time or another professed a belief in Christ or were "saved" and yet fell away because they did not nourish their faith in Christ.

Yes, scripture is about faith in God. But Moroni 10 and Alma 32 seem to be saying we need to have faith in those scriptures before we pray. Does the Bible say we need faith in our ability to have a sincere heart and real intent?

[Jungler]

I don't think that is what the scripture is saying and that certainly isn't the way I interpret it.

38.But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

 

This to me is saying, that if one doesn't pray, doesn't study, doesn't experiment on it, etc. then your ground is barren and one hasn't nourished it.

 

Some people will just say. . . Mormonism is false, or you believe in xyz, without ever taking the time to read, ponder, study and pray about it-that is neglecting the tree, or they might read something on the internet but not really study it in their minds or pray about it, or they will pray about it but they don't really want to know the answer, i.e. they aren't ready to listen to His Will.

 

If someone is reading, studying, pondering and praying-that is nourishing the tree.  Basically we have to do all that we possibly can to find out if it is true, take it to God and see what happens.

I've read all of Moroni and large chunks of 1 Nephi and 3 Nephi and I've prayed about them more times than I can count. Why wouldn't God answer those prayers?

[pam]

Commentary on verse 38:

 

 

Alma's parable is so filled with the spirit of prophecy and revelation that it touches on many other scriptural concepts. Nephi asks, 'now my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay...ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ...' (2 Ne 31:19-20). The spiritual novice has a responsibility to 'press forward', to continue to nourish the tree by tilling the soil. Without this diligent care, the soil can be dried by the temptations of the evil one, And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root it withered away (Mark 4:5-7). It should be remembered that the seed which fell on stony ground produced no fruit not because the seed was bad, or because the sower had not done his job, but because the soil was not yet prepared. Had someone removed the rocks, and tilled this stony ground, the result would have been fruit that brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred (Mark 4:8).

 

 

For verse 39, President Eyring says this:

 

"Just as soil needs preparation for a seed, so does a human heart for the word of God to take root. Before he told the people to plant the seed, Alma told them that their hearts were prepared. They had been persecuted and cast out of their churches. Alma with his love and the circumstances of their lives, which led them to be humble, had prepared them. They were then ready to hear the word of God. If they chose to plant it in their hearts, the growth in their souls would surely follow, and that would increase their faith." (To Draw Closer to God, p. 186)

[bytor2112]

Yes, scripture is about faith in God. But Moroni 10 and Alma 32 seem to be saying we need to have faith in those scriptures before we pray. Does the Bible say we need faith in our ability to have a sincere heart and real intent?

 

 

Alma 32 is about faith....I would submit that the Lord knew that people would struggle to accept the Book of Mormon and that is why the promise in Moroni 10. I did not pray about the Book of Mormon....or the Bible. But, I know they are both scripture and came to believe in the LDS church because of the Holy Spirit. 

 

The Book of Mormon is not a threat to the Bible...it further substantiates that Christ is the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind and that Heavenly Father loves all of HIS children. It is further proof and evidence.....

 

Your struggle, as was mine, is that the LDS teachings regarding pre-mortal existence, the nature of the Godhead versus the Trinity, Prophets, etc appears to be in contradiction to the Bible. It took me a while to understand that the BOM and our other canonized scriptures amplifies, clarifies and explains truths found in the Bible. My understanding of former beliefs melted away, NOT because of LDS teachings but because of the Holy Spirit.

 

God is unchanging, the same yesterday as today and still speaks to HIS children. I have never known such peace that defies understanding as I have known as a Latter Day Saint. The Holy Ghost and the witness of it...Spirit to Spirit is WHY I and others believe in the BOM and Prophets and the restored Gospel. It is not something that is easily explained and is why often Mormons simply say I know the church is true.

 

Asking someone to pray to find out for themselves is simply an invitation to invite the Holy Ghost and sincere intent is an absolute requirement. For some that experience doesn't occur after reading the BOM.....immediately and may occur regarding other aspects of the church. It is a bit different for everyone.....it took Brigham Young two years.

 

Truly, no amount of intellectualizing or scripture study, archaeological evidence, etc will ever convert......it only comes by the power of the Holy Spirit and in our faith that converts and causes Baptists like myself and my wife, Episcopalians like my grandmother and members of the Assemblies of God like my mother to leave their professed beliefs and faiths and join a religion that so many marginalize and that they themselves viewed as a cult and believed pretty much like you and so many others.

[bytor2112]

Why did you stop at the LDS church instead of moving on to the RLDS church or some other group that claims a more recent restoration? Did you also pray about those other groups?

 

 

My conversion was kind of accidental.....I was taking a Mormon to task and in the conversation, I experienced something so unexpected and overwhelming That I just stopped and listened.I was filled with a hunger to know more that was unquenchable and candidly, I never prayed to know if the church was true or if the BOM was real....I just knew. I was a born again Christian...saved and firm in my beliefs and was not looking to change faiths. I was only trying to help some mormons understand how wrong they were....

[The Folk Prophet]

It's pretty east to experiment on the word, so to speak, with the RLDS. All you have to do is visit Nauvoo. The contrast of the Spirit is pretty straight up there.

[The Folk Prophet]

Moroni 10 is about planting a seed. That seed still has to be nourished.

 

Moreover, the seed represents the word of God. That word is in the Bible. Anyone can nourish that word. It's not exclusive to the LDS church. Only those things that are the word of God that are exclusive to the LDS church may be nourished exclusively in the LDS church.

 

Nourishing the word of God does not prove other church's false, nor is that the intent of Alma 32. Having the word wither and die doesn't prove the church you're in false, nor does it prove other churches true. Just as, literally, planting a garden and then failing to water it means you didn't water it, not that you planted nails. But if you plant nails, you aren't going to grow much either.

 

Experimenting on the word and having no fruit grow doesn't prove a church false or true. Neither does harvesting fruit from the good word of God. What it does prove is that that word, as given by God, is good and right. In other words, If you are a peacemaker, and you nourish that by obedience, study, faith, and effort, you will reap the harvest of being a peacemaker. It does not mean you'll reap the harvest of being poor in spirit or for being meek.

 

Nourishing the word is a life long process. It is not a one time test you run to validate truth. We all must nourish the word of God continually throughout our lives.

[Jungler]

 

Commentary on verse 38:

 

Alma's parable is so filled with the spirit of prophecy and revelation that it touches on many other scriptural concepts. Nephi asks, 'now my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay...ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ...' (2 Ne 31:19-20). The spiritual novice has a responsibility to 'press forward', to continue to nourish the tree by tilling the soil. Without this diligent care, the soil can be dried by the temptations of the evil one, And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root it withered away (Mark 4:5-7). It should be remembered that the seed which fell on stony ground produced no fruit not because the seed was bad, or because the sower had not done his job, but because the soil was not yet prepared. Had someone removed the rocks, and tilled this stony ground, the result would have been fruit that brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred (Mark 4:8).

 

 

For verse 39, President Eyring says this:

 

"Just as soil needs preparation for a seed, so does a human heart for the word of God to take root. Before he told the people to plant the seed, Alma told them that their hearts were prepared. They had been persecuted and cast out of their churches. Alma with his love and the circumstances of their lives, which led them to be humble, had prepared them. They were then ready to hear the word of God. If they chose to plant it in their hearts, the growth in their souls would surely follow, and that would increase their faith." (To Draw Closer to God, p. 186)

I don't see how Alma 32 is a parallel of the parable of the sower in Mark 4. Mark mentions seeds, but the focus is on the different types of ground the seeds fall on. For the Alma 32 passage, you have to go back to at least verse 27. Verses 28, 29, 31, 32, 33 and 36 all refer to how we can know the seed is good.

 

 36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

 

The experiment to know if the seed is good certainly sounds like the focus of the passage. But like I ask in the OP, is this really a reliable experiment and model for testing truth? What kind of experiments predicts the result before you even start and then blames you if you get any other result?

[Jungler]

It's pretty east to experiment on the word, so to speak, with the RLDS. All you have to do is visit Nauvoo. The contrast of the Spirit is pretty straight up there.

I've never been to Nauvoo. Could you explain that a bit more. What about Nauvoo lets you know you shouldn't trust RLDS doctrines?

 

Moroni 10 is about planting a seed. That seed still has to be nourished.

 

Moreover, the seed represents the word of God. That word is in the Bible. Anyone can nourish that word. It's not exclusive to the LDS church. Only those things that are the word of God that are exclusive to the LDS church may be nourished exclusively in the LDS church.

 

Nourishing the word of God does not prove other church's false, nor is that the intent of Alma 32. Having the word wither and die doesn't prove the church you're in false, nor does it prove other churches true. Just as, literally, planting a garden and then failing to water it means you didn't water it, not that you planted nails. But if you plant nails, you aren't going to grow much either.

 

Experimenting on the word and having no fruit grow doesn't prove a church false or true. Neither does harvesting fruit from the good word of God. What it does prove is that that word, as given by God, is good and right. In other words, If you are a peacemaker, and you nourish that by obedience, study, faith, and effort, you will reap the harvest of being a peacemaker. It does not mean you'll reap the harvest of being poor in spirit or for being meek.

 

Nourishing the word is a life long process. It is not a one time test you run to validate truth. We all must nourish the word of God continually throughout our lives.

What do you think Alma 32:36 is saying? 

 

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

 

I keep hearing Mormons say the Holy Ghost is here to guide us to truth. They keep saying if we ask God sincerely, He'll give us wisdom. Obviously, that guidance and wisdom isn't limited to the question of if the Book of Mormon is true. Why wouldn't it also apply to similar questions about other religions or scriptures? If a Mormon asks God if Protestant claims about the Gospel are true, would God refuse to answer?

[bytor2112]

I keep hearing Mormons say the Holy Ghost is here to guide us to truth. They keep saying if we ask God sincerely, He'll give us wisdom. Obviously, that guidance and wisdom isn't limited to the question of if the Book of Mormon is true. Why wouldn't it also apply to similar questions about other religions or scriptures? If a Mormon asks God if Protestant claims about the Gospel are true, would God refuse to answer?

 

 

 The Holy Ghost bears witness of the Father and the Son....and the truths pertaining to them. (among other things) 

[james12]

I’ve talked to many Mormons over the past few years, but I’ve always been skeptical of their claims, including the doctrine of testing a faith or religion with prayer. I was recently talking to a few missionaries and they encouraged me to read Alma 32 to help understand the doctrine. Verses 27-43 helped explain the doctrine, but they also raised more questions.

 

Three of the verses, 27, 33 and 36, describe planting and watering the seed as an experiment. If this is a valid experiment and a reliable way to test if something is true or not, couldn’t it be used to test similar doctrines or claims of truth?

 

Let’s say, hypothetically, that a Mormon used the model of testing truth described in Alma 32 and Moroni 10 to test the Protestant claim that the true Gospel was never lost and never needed to be restored and they receive what sounds like a “No” response. What do they do next? What does Alma say we should do if a seed doesn’t grow?

 

Alma 32 

38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

 39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

 

So if a seed doesn’t grow, it’s because the person praying didn’t nourish it and their ground is barren. Moroni 10 isn't as clear as Alma 32, but the same implication is there. If someone doesn’t get a “Yes” response to the prayer, it’s because they didn’t have a sincere heart, real intent and faith in Christ.

 

So how does the Mormon get an answer about the Protestant claim? It sounds like this model is saying they should keep praying about it with a sincere heart, real intent and faith in Christ.

 

Is this really a reliable experiment and model for testing truth? What kind of experiments predicts the result before you even start and then blames you if you get any other result?

 

Have you applied these verses to the RLDS church or any other LDS splinter group? If it’s a valid way to support the LDS church, can’t it be applied to those other groups? If you have applied it to those groups, what response did you receive?

I see this portion of Alma 32 setup in two phases. First planting the seed, and second, after it is planted, nourishing the tree. Here is an outline:

 

1. Planting the Seed

a. The seed is the word (v28) or in other words a gospel truth (not faith).

b. We must give place in our heart for the seed, good or bad. At this stage we must not cast it out either way because of unbelief. Those who cast the seed out at this stage have not even given it chance to grow or not. They simply reject the word without any serious consideration.

c. If it is a good seed it will: enlarge your soul, enlighten your understanding, and begin to be delicious (end of v28). A bad seed will do no such thing, it will simply not grow at all (v32).

d.  At this stage the bad seed is cast away (end of v32). After having tested the word we can now cast it out because it is dead.

 

2. Nourish the Tree

a. Goal - Allow the tree to take root, grow, and bring forth fruit (v37).

b. If the tree is neglected and not nourished it will wither away (v38). At this stage, we know the seed is good for it began to grow earlier. There is clearly no problem with the seed.

c. Instead the problem is with the ground which has been neglected, and with the lack of care given the tree (v39).

d. With faith, great diligence, and patience, looking forward for the fruit it will take root (v41).

c. Once it takes root it will bear precious fruit which will allow the individual to reep the rewards of their faith (v42-43)

 

Regarding other religions. I have tested some in this manner. As of late I have found some good fruit in the eastern religions. What I have learned is precious to me indeed.

[SpiritDragon]

 What kind of experiments predicts the result before you even start and then blames you if you get any other result?

 

Perhaps if you look at the experiment or test in the context of this life being a test; think back to school tests where if you didn't get the answer required it was your fault, not the test's. Rather than being the manipulative tactic you make it out to be, this is more a matter of those issuing the test already knowing the answer while trying to teach others how to get the right answer. Alma is explaining testing faith in the gospel of Christ specifically, while Moroni also has specific qualities in place for the test he gives. To suggest that the same formula will work for a different set of parameters seems to betray logic. Just because 1+1=2 does not mean that 3+2=2 also, therefore changing the parameters alters the result, the only result promised is when taken in the context given.

 

A more accurate test for everything else is found in Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9

 

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

[The Folk Prophet]

I've never been to Nauvoo. Could you explain that a bit more. What about Nauvoo lets you know you shouldn't trust RLDS doctrines?

 

I'm not sure it can be really understood unless one has been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost. But, in essence, the Spirit strongly bears witness of the truth on the LDS owned side of things. The RLDS (technically Community of Christ now) side of things does not. It is flat.

 

 

What do you think Alma 32:36 is saying? 

 

36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good.

 

In relationship to this discussion -- that even if the Spirit manifests the truth to you you can still kill the word in yourself by not nourishing it.

 

I keep hearing Mormons say the Holy Ghost is here to guide us to truth. They keep saying if we ask God sincerely, He'll give us wisdom. Obviously, that guidance and wisdom isn't limited to the question of if the Book of Mormon is true. Why wouldn't it also apply to similar questions about other religions or scriptures? If a Mormon asks God if Protestant claims about the Gospel are true, would God refuse to answer?

 

The Spirit, as it says in Moroni 10:5, witnesses the truth of ALL things. So truths that are in other faiths (like that Jesus is the Christ) may certainly be learned through the Spirit. But the Spirit will not bear witness of that which is not true. The Spirit cannot lie.

[estradling75]

The thing about prayer is we also have to remember the God is not some kind of cosmic vending machine responding to prayers.  He is a kind and loving God who knows us better then we know ourselves.  Many times we assume we are going to get a yes or no answer.  But sometime the answer is "wait", or "you are not ready" or something else entirely according to his wisdom and will.

 

This can be very hard to accept.  We want large scale support of everybody else, but God works very personally and individually.  Which requires greater faith when it seems like we must stand mostly alone with just God supporting us.

[Just_A_Guy]

But like I ask in the OP, is this really a reliable experiment and model for testing truth? What kind of experiments predicts the result before you even start and then blames you if you get any other result?

Open-mindedness is "scientific", but nihilism is not. For my part, I distinctly remember that in high school chem lab I was graded on my ability to replicate an experiment such that I got identical results to those already demonstrated by the teacher.

Why did you stop at the LDS church instead of moving on to the RLDS church or some other group that claims a more recent restoration?

I see and agree with your general point, but as for your specific example: a core element of RLDS teaching is that Brigham Young (and his successors) led the body of the Church into apostasy. Ditto for the FLDS as pertains to the Church after the Joseph F. Smith administration.

Once you get a revelation, and you understand it as such--it's one thing to go out and seek further light and knowledge; but deliberately requesting a revelation that contradicts an earlier revelation is potentially problematic.

[The Folk Prophet]

Huh. For my part, I distinctly remember that in high school chem lab I was graded on my ability to replicate an experiment such that I got identical results to those already demonstrated by the teacher.

I see and agree with your general point, but as for your specific example: a core element of RLDS teaching is that Brigham Young (and his successors) led the body of the Church into apostasy. Ditto for the FLDS as pertains to the Church after the Joseph F. Smith administration.

Once you get a revelation, and you understand it as such--it's one thing to go out and seek further light and knowledge; but deliberately requesting a revelation that contradicts an earlier revelation is potentially problematic.

 

Exactly. If you told your kid, "Hey, if you put Mentos in a Coke bottle it goes ballistic." and the kid goes out to experiment on it and then comes back and says, "I did what you said but nothing happened." You're likely going to say, "Well, you must have done something wrong. Let's go figure it out. Ah...there's yer problem. You used M&Ms."

[yjacket]

I've read all of Moroni and large chunks of 1 Nephi and 3 Nephi and I've prayed about them more times than I can count. Why wouldn't God answer those prayers?

 

He will answer them, in His own time.  We must have faith that He will answer them.

 

Many times in life we have to proceed with the best knowledge possible trusting that at some point God will let us know.

If I ever feel like I haven't gotten an answer, I generally proceed down the best path that I think is possible all the while praying, Heavenly Father if this isn't the path for me, please let me know.

 

We strive and work and fight all the while praying that God will reveal His will.

 

I know He answers prayers, sometimes it might take a very long time.  I've had very powerful, heartfelt prayers that I could get no answers to for a very long time, almost a decade.  I proceeded in the best way possible and then, all of the sudden in a manner that I couldn't possibly imagine He answered my prayer.  He knew what He was doing, if He had answered my prayer many years ago, I would have withered later on.  He answered it at exactly the right time in my life.

 

When will God answer your prayers? . . . .only He knows, but we must have faith that He will answer, until then we do the best we can, work like crazy to get an answer and then have faith that He will respond.

[Anddenex]

Jungler,

 

Why are you Protestant and not Catholic?

[Palerider]

Jungler

Are you not studying with the missionaries anymore ???

[Jungler]

Once you get a revelation, and you understand it as such--it's one thing to go out and seek further light and knowledge; but deliberately requesting a revelation that contradicts an earlier revelation is potentially problematic.

By that logic, why would any Protestant, Catholic, etc. ever pray about the Mormon church? We already have revelation. Why should we deliberately request revelation that would contradict the revelation we already have?

[Guest]

By that logic, why would any Protestant, Catholic, etc. ever pray about the Mormon church? We already have revelation. Why should we deliberately request revelation that would contradict the revelation we already have?

 

Good question, isn't it?  But... the restored gospel does not contradict the revelation that is already given...

 

Now, you might have a completely different Interpretation or Understanding of what has been revealed to you... but that doesn't make the new revelation contradict the old revelation that you misunderstood...

 

Now, if the restored gospel would say - Jesus is NOT the Christ, the Son of God... then you are right to throw that gospel away.

 

So, you say you are a Protestant... somewhere along the line of Protestants - somebody prayed something fierce to figure out why Protest?  Why not stay Catholic? 

[estradling75]

By that logic, why would any Protestant, Catholic, etc. ever pray about the Mormon church? We already have revelation. Why should we deliberately request revelation that would contradict the revelation we already have?

 

Simple fact is.. they don't...  People generally need to have some kind of spark or reason to change.  That is why the LDS missionaries begin with the Book of Mormon.  They ask people to Read it.  Why because reading it has the power to open peoples minds to the possibility that there is more out there.  Many don't read, more reject it out of hand because of what they already believe.

 

The Lord said his sheep will hear is voice.  Its the servants job to give everyone a chance to hear