What to do? Nothing? Walk away? How far?


Daniell
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I and my wife chose many years ago to proceed with a bona fide recognised common law marriage as a result of each having a bad marriage prior and because of things we came to understand concerning typical practised marriages. We have now truly found our soul mates. We have 3 beautiful children as a result and are very happy indeed. We have never made it a secret with our Bishops of the past as the subject always comes up to get us into temple preparation classes. We have found that as a result of this decision to marry according to the Law of the Land rather than Mans law, we cannot go to the Temple. We accept this and have no contention nor issue concerning this corporate rule.

 

For the most part we have been very good members doing our part where in required for whatever reasons.  In the last few years however it has been a real struggle do to loss of income and work related injury, We have for the most part held our own without having to go to the church for help. But from time to time have done so with no problem whatsoever, our former wards and Bishops were awesome. 

 

We recently were forced to moved to a new area and very pressing circumstances were upon us and still are, we do not know how we are going to get through this but, we know we shall. I went to my new Bishop and asked for "minor help" to alleviate a pressing problem. He looked down at a paper on his desk sent by my former bishop which I believe was just my membership records and he said, well, we are going to have to discuss this little matter before we go any further, puzzled I said what matter would that be? and he said your marriage arrangement with your wife. I said, ok, why is it a problem now? He said well the church does not recognise common law. WHAT! I said, should I now go home and tear from the contents of all the church books all the talks and speeches of the importance of the Common law including D&C 98? Do you know that what you just said is extremely alarming? I said.   He said nothing and began to speak about anything but the subject at hand. Any way, In short, he told me the church WILL NOT help us, and do not expect any callings. keeping in mind, this marriage arrangement was very well known to all former Bishops and my wife taught primary at our former ward.All this because we do not have a Babylon recognised state marriage license?

 

I few days later regarding another matter I find that this very Bishop has been operating in construction for years without a proper license not only where he currently lives but in two former states and that a history shadows him including his current city who has warned him several times about continuing to operate without a License. Having been in construction my whole life I am VERY familiar with what you can and can't do in this matter...

 

I have no idea what to make of this, what to do about it if anything or just walk away? I feel betrayed.

I have many friends and  some are in their Bishopric and a few former Bishops. ALL of them has comment in the same way, something isn't right, this is wrong, etc.... I pretended it didn't bother me and changed the subject. But we are really a touchy situation right now and until I am back to work in one week, we may be displaced again from our home. Again, I have no idea what to do, or how to handle this if at all, in these situations all I can do is have faith, and know our father is with us.

 

Daniel

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Daniell -

 

I am bewildered as to why you think there is a difference between "the Law of the Land" and "Man's law" where marriage is concerned.  The law recognizes "marriage".  "Common law marriage" is just a means of obtaining a legally recognized marriage and, in this day and age, exists only in states where it has been provided for in statute.  For example, Utah allows "common law of marriage" as a "marriage not solemnized" and, once recognized by a judicial authority (but only once that happens), just as legally binding as a typical civil marriage.  (Utah Code Annotated 30-1-4.5)  As far as the law is concerned a common law marriage, once recognized, is exactly like a solemnized marriage.  The parties thereafter have access to tax breaks, government spousal benefits, visitation rights, inheritance rights, and--yes--divorce courts, should either partner want them.

 

Have you had your common-law marriage legally recognized by a civil officer?  If not, why not?  The way I see it, either you've legally committed to the woman you call your wife, or you haven't.  If you haven't, you're breaking the law of chastity; and the bishop is well within his rights to restrict your membership (and choose to allocate the ward's limited fast offering funds to families who are more committed to keeping that commandment) as he deems appropriate.  If you have made that commitment, then maybe you should show documentation of that commitment (court decree, or whatever) to your bishop and respectfully ask him to reconsider.

 

Now, as to your current bishop's business practices--he has an obligation to obey the law (just as you do), and if he's violating that law and you feel a civic duty to report that violation to the authorities--OK, then.  But I'd suggest you make very sure that you're acting out of a genuine concern for social order in general, and your chosen industry/profession in particular.  Because if you're acting out of vindictiveness, I don't think you'll find the consequences very fulfilling. 

 

True healing comes through repentance, not through lashing out at our accusers.

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"I am bewildered as to why you think there is a difference between "the Law of the Land" and "Man's law" where marriage is concerned." 

 

Because I believe the contents of D&C 98... and I am bewildered as to why you don't, perhaps a closer reading might shed some light...and maybe not. 

 

however I would never intentionally disrupt a mans life out of what some might call a civic duty... I am not his judge, nor is he mine.... Now moral duty is a new thing...

"WHY" I and my wife chose this avenue is not the advice I am looking for but points taken.... marriage is instituted of God, not man.

 

And this is why I would walk away.... Thank you sincerely for your input....  :-)

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The only way I can see D&C 98 as coming into play, is if you argue (based on verses 6-7) that you don't have to obey any law you deem to be unconstitutional; and further argue that state marriage laws are unconstitutional. 

 

Your first assertion is perhaps defensible, but also more than a little dodgy in light of the Twelfth Article of Faith.  Your second assertion is--well, I'll put it gently--not one that the Church would back you up on.  The current instruction from those who are authorized to issue such instructions, is that if there isn't a legally recognized marriage--it's fornication.  That is not up for debate.  There have been apostles who went and sought out women and said "let's just say our own vows, call ourselves married and forego the legal mumbo-jumbo" and proceeded to have a sexual relationship, and they were excommunicated for--you guessed it--violating the Law of Chastity (Exhibit A).

 

I'm sorry you didn't find my previous input useful.  My only other input is that perhaps, in addition to Section 98, you should review Sections 131 and 132 and then ask yourself a) how you attain exaltation without entering into the celestial order of marriage; b ) how you will enter into that order of marriage without attaining an authorized temple sealing, and c) how, at this point in time, you plan to attain an authorized temple sealing without first having obtained a legally binding marriage.

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And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

 

I think the first step to consider in the chapter is 98:4
Which would be seeking after a temple marriage. The rest is justified, not optimal.

 

 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

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Oh jeez... now the past me would have ruined him with info like that, being a very vengeful person, but these days... I donno...I would probably just leave but I can understand how that's not a good point of advice, and not really even desireable especially if you like church.

Maybe talk to him again? I donno... harder then I thought to give advice that isn't "destory that person's career"

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I am not sure exactly why you feel betrayed? How long have you been a member? I think it is public knowledge the fact that the Church does not recognize common law marriages, I am actually quite surprised that you seem shocked that the Bishop asked about your marriage status and I confess, it is very hard for me to believe that two previous Bishops knew about it and they never told you anything, I don't know where you live but it's odd. Having said that, perhaps I am wrong and you do have legal proof by a civil officer?

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How does this whole common law thing trump the commandment to seek exaltation? it is more important to you to make some social statement than to create an eternal family. I can't help but think that if you cared about God's type of marriage, you would seek it. If your marriage is indeed bona fied as you suggest, a little legal explanation to your bishop would be simple.

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Everyone has the right to live life like they would like.  That right exist until it infringes on the Rights of another.

 

You have the right to join the church (or other organization) of your choosing.  The church (or other organization) has the right to set the standards for the benefits they give out and the standard for being a member up to and including allowing/ending ones membership

 

In the church the Bishops are the gatekeepers of the benefits and membership(more or less)

 

Your prior Bishops chose to extend you some benefits even though you were not living the standard.  That is their Right and accountability.

 

Sounds like your current Bishop is going to require you to meet the standard before extending you some benefits.  This is his Right and accountability.

 

This does not infringe on your rights in any way, the Bishop is simply exercising the Church's rights as he is authorized to do.

 

You have no right to the Church's help, such help is a privilege.

 

So now you have a choice. Either meet the requirement or don't.  Either way you get to live with the consequence of the choices you make.  Just like your current Bishop gets to live the the consequences of the choices he makes. 

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I and my wife chose many years ago to proceed with a bona fide recognised common law marriage as a result of each having a bad marriage prior and because of things we came to understand concerning typical practised marriages. We have now truly found our soul mates. We have 3 beautiful children as a result and are very happy indeed. We have never made it a secret with our Bishops of the past as the subject always comes up to get us into temple preparation classes. We have found that as a result of this decision to marry according to the Law of the Land rather than Mans law, we cannot go to the Temple. We accept this and have no contention nor issue concerning this corporate rule.

 

For the most part we have been very good members doing our part where in required for whatever reasons.  In the last few years however it has been a real struggle do to loss of income and work related injury, We have for the most part held our own without having to go to the church for help. But from time to time have done so with no problem whatsoever, our former wards and Bishops were awesome. 

 

We recently were forced to moved to a new area and very pressing circumstances were upon us and still are, we do not know how we are going to get through this but, we know we shall. I went to my new Bishop and asked for "minor help" to alleviate a pressing problem. He looked down at a paper on his desk sent by my former bishop which I believe was just my membership records and he said, well, we are going to have to discuss this little matter before we go any further, puzzled I said what matter would that be? and he said your marriage arrangement with your wife. I said, ok, why is it a problem now? He said well the church does not recognise common law. WHAT! I said, should I now go home and tear from the contents of all the church books all the talks and speeches of the importance of the Common law including D&C 98? Do you know that what you just said is extremely alarming? I said.   He said nothing and began to speak about anything but the subject at hand. Any way, In short, he told me the church WILL NOT help us, and do not expect any callings. keeping in mind, this marriage arrangement was very well known to all former Bishops and my wife taught primary at our former ward.All this because we do not have a Babylon recognised state marriage license?

 

I few days later regarding another matter I find that this very Bishop has been operating in construction for years without a proper license not only where he currently lives but in two former states and that a history shadows him including his current city who has warned him several times about continuing to operate without a License. Having been in construction my whole life I am VERY familiar with what you can and can't do in this matter...

 

I have no idea what to make of this, what to do about it if anything or just walk away? I feel betrayed.

I have many friends and  some are in their Bishopric and a few former Bishops. ALL of them has comment in the same way, something isn't right, this is wrong, etc.... I pretended it didn't bother me and changed the subject. But we are really a touchy situation right now and until I am back to work in one week, we may be displaced again from our home. Again, I have no idea what to do, or how to handle this if at all, in these situations all I can do is have faith, and know our father is with us.

 

Daniel

I think you are creating definitions to suit your own purposes. The "law of the land" IS man' slaw.

Temple marriage is not a "corporate rule". It is Heavenly Father's law. If you cannot grasp this basic point about marriage, it makes me wonder about your understanding of and commitment to what marriage really is.

As to your alleged information about your current bishop, it sounds like you went seeking a method of retaliation.

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I'm the most libertarian person on here (or at least I think I am). I don't believe in government sanctioned marriage (I know I'm in the minority on here), though if I found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with, I will make sure everything is taken care of for the eternities and if that means obtaining legal recognition on earth in order to be sealed, so be it. That is more important than my not recognizing the government's authority on declaring marriage.

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I'm the most libertarian person on here (or at least I think I am). I don't believe in government sanctioned marriage (I know I'm in the minority on here), though if I found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with, I will make sure everything is taken care of for the eternities and if that means obtaining legal recognition on earth in order to be sealed, so be it. That is more important than my not recognizing the government's authority on declaring marriage.

 

I would describe myself more on the lines of believing government should just step out of marriage altogether.  But, I also figure, why rock the boat?

 

That the OP wanted to balk at government-marriage, I'm for... until it gets in the way of red tape.  Sure, we might not like that the red tape is there, but it's there.  So if you want the temple blessings, you jump through the hoops.

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